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Golden Jubilee Speech
Topic Started: Sep 22 2009, 12:22 PM (1,827 Views)
Trotim
Idiot
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Queen's Golden Jubilee Speech

I was just wondering what you guys, as natives, think about this speech? I couldn't understand too much, but even then I noticed some things that weren't quite right. She "take pride in our tradition of fairness and tolerance"? The Queen? Of the British Empire and Commonwealth? Maybe I misunderstood something, but wasn't the Empire known for exploiting and domineering its colonies?

Are there any other objectionable things I might have missed on top of that? Thanks~
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Jeffk38uk
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Everything's great at your Junes.
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It's frankly something not to get hot and bothered about. And it's not like her statement's were wrong either. Although the British Empire did have slaves like any other empire in the day and explotation of colonies, they were the first country to abolish slavery if my history classes are anything to come by. They also let go many of their colonies during the 19th century, either voluntarily or by lack of choice.

Also despite what has happened over the years, the UK today is still a multinational nation from all reaches of the world living amongst each other in relative peace.

Although the main question is, why bring up a speech made in 2002.
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Pixellated
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Being responsible
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To answer your original question; I'm not really that interested in the monarchy, to be honest. They're either a tourist attraction or an ambassadorial embarrassment. If the country's ever in a state that the monarchy has to make a decision, then Parliament's failed in a spectacular way.

There doesn't seem to be anything properly objectionable in there, really.
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Trotim
Idiot
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Right, thanks. I suppose it's just a general "I guess 50 years are over and I have to say they were nice" kind of speech, eh?

Thanks for clarifying the slavery thing, though.
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Jeffk38uk
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Everything's great at your Junes.
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Well, not less you want to dig the subject from the grave and demand compensation for something that happend decades or even hundreds of years ago.
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Pixellated
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Being responsible
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Jeffk38uk,Sep 22 2009
02:17 PM
demand compensation for something that happend decades or even hundreds of years ago.

I really, really hate that argument, "My ancestors were ______". So, you're calling on using sympathy for someone else, who neither knew you nor you knew them, to try and make someone else feel bad, even though your situations are barely similar. The entire point of history is that it's in the past, leave it there.
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RedFox742
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Obama's got a gun...
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Pixellated,Sep 22 2009
01:24 PM
Jeffk38uk,Sep 22 2009
02:17 PM
demand compensation for something that happend decades or even hundreds of years ago.

I really, really hate that argument, "My ancestors were ______".

The counterargument is that past repression is frequently responsible for present-day deficiencies in living conditions among significant portions of ethnic groups (and the stereotypes that accompany them).

Just saying.
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Jeffk38uk
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Everything's great at your Junes.
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RedFox742,Sep 22 2009
02:07 PM
Pixellated,Sep 22 2009
01:24 PM
Jeffk38uk,Sep 22 2009
02:17 PM
demand compensation for something that happend decades or even hundreds of years ago.

I really, really hate that argument, "My ancestors were ______".

The counterargument is that past repression is frequently responsible for present-day deficiencies in living conditions among significant portions of ethnic groups (and the stereotypes that accompany them).

Just saying.

Doesn't make me dislike the chinese protestors demanding Japan apologise for what happened in WW2 anymore than usual every blooming year.
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Hercule Pyro
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You've done some terrible things, Mister Harry
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To be fair, the fact Japan never did apologise for things that even made the Nazis feel sick is pretty galling.
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Jeffk38uk
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Eastwood,Sep 22 2009
03:34 PM
To be fair, the fact Japan never did apologise for things that even made the Nazis feel sick is pretty galling.

I guess, Japan themselves didnt exactly help by leaving out some historical events in WW2 out of their history textbooks that made them look not as bad as it was.

Although the threats from the protestors over the years doesnt exactly make them look like cubscouts either.
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Hercule Pyro
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You've done some terrible things, Mister Harry
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Oh yeah, China are real bastards. But that doesn't excuse Japan for the Rape of Nanking.

Regardless, speaking as an apathetic republican, I don't give a tuppence for what the Royalty have to say.
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Jeffk38uk
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Does anyone listen to what they say anymore?
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HunteRS
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Power is all that is needed.
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I think people still listen to Prince Phillip just to see what he'll tread in next.
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RedFox742
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Obama's got a gun...
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I, for one, thing the fact that you still have royalty is just -adorable-.
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Hercule Pyro
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You've done some terrible things, Mister Harry
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RedFox742,Sep 22 2009
06:04 PM
I, for one, thing the fact that you still have royalty is just -adorable-.

I feel the same way about the fact most of your populance consider Faux News a credible source.
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Lothar Hex
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Illogical
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RedFox742,Sep 22 2009
07:04 PM
I, for one, thing the fact that you still have royalty is just -adorable-.

And I for one think that the fact you believe your webcomic is good adorable.
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Pixellated
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Being responsible
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Lothar Hex,Sep 22 2009
07:19 PM
RedFox742,Sep 22 2009
07:04 PM
I, for one, thing the fact that you still have royalty is just -adorable-.

And I for one think that the fact you believe your webcomic is good adorable.

Me too.
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Jeffk38uk
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Everything's great at your Junes.
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Pixellated,Sep 22 2009
06:21 PM
Lothar Hex,Sep 22 2009
07:19 PM
RedFox742,Sep 22 2009
07:04 PM
I, for one, thing the fact that you still have royalty is just -adorable-.

And I for one think that the fact you believe your webcomic is good adorable.

Me too.

Me three.


....wait what?
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Lothar Hex
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Illogical
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That comment was just to get Red's back up. It worked.
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Col.Feren
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Thatcher Facepalm, for when all the socialism is just too much.
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Jeffk38uk,Sep 22 2009
05:21 PM
Does anyone listen to what they say anymore?

Me, call me old fasioned, but I do, and most of the British population like having them, so the're there to stay, for now atleast, even if most of the populace don't want them in charge.
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Feldoon
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DYEL
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RedFox742,Sep 22 2009
03:07 PM
Pixellated,Sep 22 2009
01:24 PM
Jeffk38uk,Sep 22 2009
02:17 PM
demand compensation for something that happend decades or even hundreds of years ago.

I really, really hate that argument, "My ancestors were ______".

The counterargument is that past repression is frequently responsible for present-day deficiencies in living conditions among significant portions of ethnic groups (and the stereotypes that accompany them).

I found it amusing a couple years back around the bicentenary of the abolition of slavery (or some such) when the news tried to bring a whip round in Britain to pay Africa. Or something.

Basically devolving into "I'm black and you're white, you owe me money for slavery". Except every news channel which populated this idea ignored the convenient fact that it was an indentured servitude of 7 years for bringing these people to an arguably better culture. Until an ex-servant (black man) had a hissy fit when his servant's time was up. Then enslaved him.
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Sabre_Justice
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Ask me about very angry cats
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Feldoon,Sep 22 2009
10:52 PM
RedFox742,Sep 22 2009
03:07 PM
Pixellated,Sep 22 2009
01:24 PM
Jeffk38uk,Sep 22 2009
02:17 PM
demand compensation for something that happend decades or even hundreds of years ago.

I really, really hate that argument, "My ancestors were ______".

The counterargument is that past repression is frequently responsible for present-day deficiencies in living conditions among significant portions of ethnic groups (and the stereotypes that accompany them).

I found it amusing a couple years back around the bicentenary of the abolition of slavery (or some such) when the news tried to bring a whip round in Britain to pay Africa. Or something.

Basically devolving into "I'm black and you're white, you owe me money for slavery". Except every news channel which populated this idea ignored the convenient fact that it was an indentured servitude of 7 years for bringing these people to an arguably better culture. Until an ex-servant (black man) had a hissy fit when his servant's time was up. Then enslaved him.

Erm, indentured servitude is basically a fancier word for slavery.
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csadn
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Sharkopathic
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Sabre_Justice,Sep 23 2009
04:17 AM
Erm, indentured servitude is basically a fancier word for slavery.

Not *precisely* true. An IS couldn't leave his job until his indent was up, but in all
other respects, he was still a citizen -- for ex., his employer couldn't physically abuse
him; if accused of a crime, he still received a jury trial; he could hold money, in order
to buy out his indent early; his time under indent was strictly limited; etc.

The full-blower slave, OTOH, had *none* of these things -- physical abuse was
allowed (and in some cases encouraged); he had no right to trial-by-jury; he had
no property he could call his own -- technically everything he held was his master's;
his slavery was indefinite -- he could be born, live, and die in bondage; etc. The
actual conditions varied from slaveholder to slaveholder -- some were more
forgiving, other more vicious -- but in a way, this flexibility made the situation
worse, as some could point to others and say "We're not as bad as *that*".

This is a topic of some interest to me, as I am distantly related to Harriet Beecher
Stowe -- the nice lady who helped to start the American Civil War.
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Sabre_Justice
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I suppose. But it's no coincidence that right after slavery was abolished, most ex-slaves ended up in indentured servitude, if I have my US history right (a rare occurrence).

And 'better culture' is a REALLY loaded term, especially given that said culture happens to treat said people as second-class citizens, and they continue to face irrational hatred and prejudice today.
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Feldoon
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DYEL
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Sabre_Justice,Sep 23 2009
10:27 AM
And 'better culture' is a REALLY loaded term, especially given that said culture happens to treat said people as second-class citizens, and they continue to face irrational hatred and prejudice today.

That's why I said arguably. History is written by the victors, and hence our society of old would've stated it is the better one.
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