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The Watchmen Thread.
Topic Started: Jul 17 2008, 10:17 PM (3,143 Views)
Studio Asperger
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Badly-Drawn Idiot
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Well, now that I'm over the shock of MCR's proverbial diarrhea of a contribution, I have remembered some things about the film that struck me as off. They more than likely stem from trying to make the film more palatable to a cinema audience, but instead just came across as dumbing-down.

SPOILER WARNING (highlight to see)

For example, why do the characters have superhuman qualities to them? Rorschach moves like a ninja, the Comedian punches through a wall, and Laurie kicks a man so hard he lands upside-down in a bin. It was repeatedly stressed in the comic that these people were only human, but that's gone. By the time Adrian catches a bullet, it's not surprising or impressive at all. Also, I felt Laurie's personality seemed to have been transplanted with Generic Female Role B (strong woman). She was definitely the weak link in the cast.

My biggest complaint though is that several key scenes no longer leave things open to interpretation. For example, the rape scene. In the comic, it was more than implied that Sally in some ways brought it on herself; she announced "loudly enough" that she was getting changed, she scratches Blake, and Hooded Justice berates her, saying "for God's sake, cover yourself up". Instead we're not allowed to interpret the scene as anything other than Blake = evil and Sally = Generic Female Role D (innocent victim).

Also, the scene with the child murderer comes to mind. In the film he's aggresive, carries a gun and acts like a detestable pile of shit once he's handcuffed, and you don't mind seeing him get hacked open. In the book he's a nervous, pathetically frightened man who you almost feel sorry for as Rorschach burns him alive. It's a case of taking out any sort of conflicting opinion about the character and replacing it with more OTT violence and gore (a common symptom in this film).

Honestly, it felt like the film was forcing opinions down my throat; it was almost like it didn't want me to decide how much I hated the Comedian, or to decide whether Adrian's a stuck-up prick or a sad, troubled man. In fact, I'm surprised they didn't kill off Adrian at the end, not wanting a villain to get away without some form of punishment (though Dan does beat the crap out of him, in a scene that felt incredibly tacked-on).

One other thing; I don't think the altered ending works as well as it did in the book. I know I said it worked in one sense, but in another it doesn't. It strikes me as implausible that humanity would rally together against Dr. Manhattan, since it's established that he's basically un-killable. At least in the book the theory was that humanity could fight the "aliens" should they return.
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Master Shake
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Studio Asperger,Mar 7 2009
05:58 AM
SPOILER WARNING (highlight to see)

Also, the scene with the child murderer comes to mind. In the film he's aggresive, carries a gun and acts like a detestable pile of shit once he's handcuffed, and you don't mind seeing him get hacked open. In the book he's a nervous, pathetically frightened man who you almost feel sorry for as Rorschach burns him alive. It's a case of taking out any sort of conflicting opinion about the character and replacing it with more OTT violence and gore (a common symptom in this film).

HIGHLIGHT FOR SPOILERS

Actually, I think it was done to better demonstrate how Rorschach so thoroughly broke that night. And while the burning building thing works in the comic, Batman Begins already had an "I don't have to save you" bit and people didn't consider him broken for that, so I'm guessing the ante needed to be upped to keep with the times.

Quote:
 
One other thing; I don't think the altered ending works as well as it did in the book. I know I said it worked in one sense, but in another it doesn't. It strikes me as implausible that humanity would rally together against Dr. Manhattan, since it's established that he's basically un-killable. At least in the book the theory was that humanity could fight the "aliens" should they return.


See, I don't see it so much as 'rally against Dr. Manhattan' as it is 'shit our pants and play nice so the angry god won't smote us again'. Fear of the unknown, not hope for triumph, is the controlling agent now.
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Pixellated
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New Fanboys is good. :D
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Ed Sigma
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Pixellated,Mar 9 2009
12:30 PM

So's the new "Hi, I'm a Marvel... and I'm a DC"
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HunteRS
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Ed Sigma,Mar 9 2009
12:33 PM
Pixellated,Mar 9 2009
12:30 PM

So's the new "Hi, I'm a Marvel... and I'm a DC"

It's whores plural right?

Off to see this Wednesday (Yay 2 for 1 deal.)
I've avoided most things that would spolier it but from what I've heard the worst thing is Silk Spectre and the best parts are those with either Rorschach or Comedian. Would those who've seen it agree?
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lirlond
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HunteRS,Mar 9 2009
12:52 PM
Ed Sigma,Mar 9 2009
12:33 PM
Pixellated,Mar 9 2009
12:30 PM

So's the new "Hi, I'm a Marvel... and I'm a DC"

It's whores plural right?

Off to see this Wednesday (Yay 2 for 1 deal.)
I've avoided most things that would spolier it but from what I've heard the worst thing is Silk Spectre and the best parts are those with either Rorschach or Comedian. Would those who've seen it agree?

Yup Pretty much spot on really.

One thing that ruined the film for me however.

No Coffee
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Jeffk38uk
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Finally got to watch so I guess I can agree the scenes with those two are one of the highlights. Overall, the film was very good and followed the source material very well, even with the altered ending it still gave the same conclusion. I was more saddened by the many bits that arent there though. The complete removal of the bernies, the death of a certain someone after backlash from you know what. Just alot of small things that make up the whole, although im glad they will be seen in the full cut.

Couldn't help while watching it in my head going oh that bits been switched around, or that bits missing, or that bits been cut down from the original. lol.

It seems the film for newcomers though is a bit of a hit or miss however. One person would say they liked th film and the plot was intiguing, while another hated it as they just got confused about what was going on.
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Feldoon
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Jeffk38uk,Mar 9 2009
02:09 PM
It seems the film for newcomers though is a bit of a hit or miss however. One person would say they liked th film and the plot was intiguing, while another hated it as they just got confused about what was going on.

The former being some form of intellectual willing to engage with the entertainment content being put forth and the latter being a lazy slob unwilling to do anything beyond looking at the shiny shiny.

Studio Asperger,Mar 6 2009
07:07 PM
One other thing; the soundtrack was awesome... BUT IT WAS RUINED BY THOSE FUCKING GOBSHITES MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE. You know how some music is somehow able to suck all of the good qualities out of whatever's in the proximity of it? Well, that's what MCR's music is like. It plays right at the end credits, which means now I can't clearly remember the film, only my absolute hatred and disgust at associating what is inarguably (seriously, I fucking dare you to argue with me on this) the lowest form of shit with the property. Honestly, I want to track down and strangle the man who thought using their "music" was a good idea.

Bit of an over-reaction.
Honestly? The soundtrack was not awesome. Fucking hell, I had to stop myself absolutely bursting with laughter when 99 luftballoons was played during Laurie and Dan's dinner. That's just the example that stuck out in my mind the most.

And by the time the end-credits rolled around I was bursting for a piss (determined as I was not to interrupt my in-film viewing). So due to a mixture of that and not being able to tell MCR from Adam, it didn't ruin a thing for me. I was too busy rolling the events back over in my mind. Kind of like when you chew through your food to try and get the best of its flavour.
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HunteRS
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You mean like a bovine chewing cud?

You are a strange one.
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Quillian
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Speaking of music, how was the score, overall, as opposed to the soundtrack?
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Dark Comet
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Apparently if the Execs had their way, the Comedian's funeral and Jon's origin story would have been left on the cutting room floor.

This nugget of information chills me to the bone.
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Spriggan
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Moral of the story: never anger the naked blue man.
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Pixellated
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Dark Comet,Mar 9 2009
07:51 PM
Apparently if the Execs had their way, the Comedian's funeral and Jon's origin story would have been left on the cutting room floor.

This nugget of information chills me to the bone.

MSN
 
(18:49:09) Daxmort: I should probably go see that
(18:49:12) Jon/Pix: I opened Watchmen to check Jon's changing sequence
(18:49:14) Daxmort: Feldoon's bugging me about it
(18:49:17) Jon/Pix: ended up reading the entire chapter
(18:49:20) Daxmort: And I was meant to go see it with my brother
(18:49:35) Jon/Pix: I really hope that bit's not watered down, Jon's past is probably one of my favourite chapters


Please don't scare me like that ever again.

Yours Sincerely,

Pix's Head
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Feldoon
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Quillian,Mar 9 2009
08:47 PM
Speaking of music, how was the score, overall, as opposed to the soundtrack?

That bit from Apocalypse Now during Dr. Manhattan and The Comedian's assault on Vietnam? Touch of class and I laughed. Very loudly.
Well, as loudly as decent cinema etiquette allows.
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Jeffk38uk
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There were certainly bits that worked extremely well, like the scene feldoon suggested, and also Dr Manattens reflection through time (which i felt was still a little on the short side). Yet there were bits that made me go "why is that song there?". Such as near the end when the Owlship is flying to the antarctic. It just felt out of place.

A question to all though, now that you have watched the film and a fair idea of how the film plays out, how do you feel the addition of the Black Freighter content incorporated into the final cut. Would it work as well as the comic given it provided a contrast to what was happening since the movie moved along just fine without it.
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Feldoon
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I think it would have been a nice accompaniment. Not necessary, however.

Similar to Hollis Mason's death.
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Jeffk38uk
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Feldoon,Mar 9 2009
11:14 PM
I think it would have been a nice accompaniment. Not necessary, however.

Similar to Hollis Mason's death.

It would make more sense though when Night Owl pummels that dude in the bar. Or it would except they cut that bit out completely.
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Feldoon
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Jeffk38uk,Mar 10 2009
12:16 AM
Night Owl pummels that dude in the bar.

What scene was that?
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Jeffk38uk
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Feldoon,Mar 9 2009
11:48 PM
Jeffk38uk,Mar 10 2009
12:16 AM
Night Owl pummels that dude in the bar.

What scene was that?

After they bust Roschach out of the prison and start looking for clues as for who tried to kill Adrian Veidt. It was like immediately after the guy got his hand crashed while still holding the glass. In the comic, Night Owl notices one of the guys due to his clothing style, and starts beating him for information on who killed Mason. That small bit was cut entirely if memory serves me right.
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Feldoon
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Jeffk38uk,Mar 10 2009
12:52 AM
Feldoon,Mar 9 2009
11:48 PM
Jeffk38uk,Mar 10 2009
12:16 AM
Night Owl pummels that dude in the bar.

What scene was that?

After they bust Roschach out of the prison and start looking for clues as for who tried to kill Adrian Veidt. It was like immediately after the guy got his hand crashed while still holding the glass.

He doesn't. He just tells people to keep calm.
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Jeffk38uk
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Yeh, cause it was removed from the film. I never said it was in it you know.
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Sabre_Justice
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Just finally saw this flick. Pretty damn full on, I think I'm gonna need a couple of days to get it through my head.

Funny thing, my dad and my gran watched as well, and they seem to feel the same. I think I'm gonna have to lend them the graphic novel.
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Twinbladez
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Anyone else seen saturday morning watchmen?

Link HO
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Legion
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Twinbladez,Mar 10 2009
10:21 AM
Anyone else seen saturday morning watchmen?

Yeah, loved it. Watched it just after finishing the comic, so all the in-jokes were still fresh in my mind. His other videos are quite good too, he's a skilled animator.
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Pixellated
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Just got back from watching it (trench, scarf, gloves and trilby anyone?), and while felt some things weren't quite right, I felt it was good as a consumer film. Not as warped as V4V was, and while I agree with 'Asperger for forcing opinion as fact upon the audience, I think this was probably necessary for a film. While people generally re-read books to get opinions, if it'd been hazy, the audience would've walked out discussing it, and a lot of 'what was that about?' would've gone up.

Not as much as this guy Greg next to me. First half was just a mess for him, since he hadn't read it.
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