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| Nintendo Revolution will lack 3rd party support?; according to Nintendo president, maybe. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 4 2005, 11:34 PM (868 Views) | |
| Lothar Hex | Mar 6 2005, 09:30 AM Post #26 |
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Illogical
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The thing about the Xbox is, that it wasn't expected to make a profit. Microsoft used it as a stepping stone to future profit. You could argue that this is a big risk, but Microsoft has over $100 Billion at it's disposal. (Probably more now) and are always making more, they spent $1 billion JUST on advertising. Nintendo have a lot, but not that much. Microsoft tend to plan WELL in advance for things like this and it seems to be starting to pay off. And to point out, Nintendos profits have fallen 43 percent in the last qurater (according to Reuters), while a fall is expected towards the end of a consoles lifespan, it's far bigger than they expected, forcing them to cut back on their predictions. And Microsoft recently made their first profit out of the Xbox. Not a huge prfit by any means, but few products make a huge first profit.
However, Microsoft is just about a million ahead of the Cube worldwide because it lacked the software to garner many fans in Japan. In North America and Europe however, it's doing quite a bit better. As for the Japan issue, they're now taking steps to ensure the next version of the Xbox will have more games that will apeal to the Asia market, signing the creator of the Final Fantasy games Hironobu Sakaguichi, as well as Yoshiki Okamoto of Game Republic and Tetsuya Mizuguchi of Q Entertainment. Look at the million console lead, it's slightly impressive as Microsoft had to work HARD to gain that much support in one generation of the console, facing off against Nintendos massive fan base as well as Sony's (which face it, nobody had any chance of touching with a 300ft stick in this console generation). Speaking of which, I think the race between #1 will be closer next generation, Although I doubt Microsoft will over take Sony in it, it'll be closer than the current competition. As for Nintendo, personally, I think I feel they're talent lies in the handheld market. Though it's starting to get a little daft now, they'll have 3 seperate consoles they'll be supporting in the next yer. GBA, DS, GBA 2. Nobody can touch them here, it's what they're best at. Sony may think that the PSP will threaten Nintendo's market share, but I highly doubt it. PSP may be a sucess but it will probably never see anything above a 30% market share, maybe. |
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| Master hunter | Mar 6 2005, 10:24 PM Post #27 |
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Sad, Sad Bastard
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Yes nintendo's profit dipped slightly but that always happens when you bring out a brand new product. While we're still waiting on it, that dip in profits is due to the release of the DS. And it'll go down again when the GBA2 comes out, and once again when the revolution comes out. As far as business is concerned, all three are doing well it seems, which includes nintendo. If nintendo do "do a SEGA" it won't be for a long time yet. |
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| Lothar Hex | Mar 6 2005, 10:25 PM Post #28 |
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Illogical
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You call a 43% loss "dipping slightly?" What do you call bankruptcy? A temporary setback? |
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| Master hunter | Mar 6 2005, 11:13 PM Post #29 |
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Sad, Sad Bastard
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Read your own post again, it's not a 43% loss it's a 43% drop in profits. That means they are still making 57% profits. |
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| Lothar Hex | Mar 6 2005, 11:37 PM Post #30 |
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Illogical
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It's 43% less than what they thought they were going to achieve, hence a loss on their prediction. Besides, I was commenting on your catergorising of a 43% loss as only a slight dip. And are you being pedantic just to annoy me? |
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| Master hunter | Mar 6 2005, 11:57 PM Post #31 |
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Sad, Sad Bastard
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Meh! Ok perhaps that dip is more than just slight, but the fact remains it's not hurting them financially. Whatever they have planned will have to wait a while yes, but let's wait until the make losses before we start saying their doomed. |
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| pygmypenguin | Mar 7 2005, 12:55 AM Post #32 |
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The Terror of Antarctica
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Um... yeah, as for the third party support, I believe that, in the games market, third party is almost the most important factor in a console's success. It's the software that makes the hardware, not vice versa. I mean, would Microsoft's Windows OS be doing as well if they didn't have the software to show off what it can do? So, if the case becomes that the Revolution has little third party support, is it possible that Nintendo has something planned to resolve this, and hence Mr. Iwata's attitude? Maybe they're planning a huge expantion of their development department in order to churn out games and take up the slack... |
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| Lothar Hex | Mar 7 2005, 09:11 AM Post #33 |
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Illogical
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Who is crying about them being doomed? Nobody as far as I can see, I just think it's bloody stupid that they are not bothered about third party support. Stop putting words in peoples mouths. |
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| Retrogamer! | Mar 7 2005, 09:58 AM Post #34 |
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IT'S HERESY
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Goin by ideas...if they lack third parties then they are either very brave, have sly tricks ready, or they are trying to outdo Sony on the "WE IS ARROGANT!" market. Considering how experience Nintendo are with games I find it odd they don't look for third parties much. |
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| Pottsy | Mar 7 2005, 12:34 PM Post #35 |
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High Deity of the holy church of "Pottsy-ism"
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Nintendo have, pretty much, bombed since they got their new president. They not even making any good first party games anymore. I was playing Mario Vs DK on the gba recently and it's crap. Also consoles always cause a defecit to a company, they are not meant to make money. All the profits come from licensing the games. If they were to make a profit from the consoles they would have to sell them at £300 and up. P.s. the GBA is a 32-bit console. the Bit-age isn't about graphics its how much the processor can handle at any one time. |
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| Master hunter | Mar 7 2005, 11:08 PM Post #36 |
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Sad, Sad Bastard
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I think he is bothered. The tone I got as I read that was that he was worried the revolution wouldn't get third party support. Nintendo are not the type to, for lack of a better phrase, "Sell out". They'll stick with their principles and see what happens. |
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| Lothar Hex | Mar 8 2005, 12:20 AM Post #37 |
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Illogical
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And what do you mean "Sell-out?" Do you mean not making games that are as Popular as some of Sony's? Nintendo are OK, but Hunter, you act as if they can do no wrong. |
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| Blitz | Mar 8 2005, 12:26 AM Post #38 |
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A Twat...according to lothar.
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could sell out mean relying on the same brands over and over to keep you afloat? With minor changes each time. like i dont know...the pokemon series? |
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| Master hunter | Mar 8 2005, 12:41 AM Post #39 |
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Sad, Sad Bastard
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Like I said, "for lack of a better phrase". It's clear that the public doesn't want innovation as much as they want violent shooters. Nintendo are a company who would probably prefer to be recognised as the innovators, who everyone then takes their ideas and moves from there. They are not the type to simply give games that are generally praised more for their violence than being any good (GTA is a noticeable exception to this rule. I talking more along the lines of Manhunt) You surely cannot deny that some of the best sellers have sold not because they are good but because of other factors, Like being violent as hell, having a license attached, or being a street racing game. How else can you explain how Metroid Prime 2, one of the best games of 2004, only enters the charts at 33, whereas Need for Speed underground 2 jumps to number 1 and stay there for ages. Nintendo will always strive to push the boundaries of gaming, even if the market doesn't seem to want that. Nintendo have got things wrong before, The Virtual Boy for example, but if they can make a profit and stick to their principles, why change? As for Pokemon, the games are still very good. If they noticeably went down in quality, then they would be simply Selling out. |
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| Lothar Hex | Mar 8 2005, 09:33 AM Post #40 |
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Illogical
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Maybe it was because Metroid Prime 2 was just like it's predecessor, i.e. got extremely dull after a while. Besides, if anything Metroid Prime was trying to make it's series easier to get into since it tried to present it in a similar way to an FPS (though at ehart it was still and adventure/platform game). Hows that "pushing the boundaries"? And how many sequels do they bring out every year? More and more It's just another Mario and Zelda game with maybe ONE spark of innovation (DK Bongos and even they are based off Japanese Arcade amchines). Hell I don't think the GameCube had any Nintendo developed games that wern't based on an existing I.P. All I'm getting from you Master is a fanboyish attitrude, blaming the public, and continually saying that Nintendo are just plain better than everyone else. They're not, they're just like Sony and Microsoft, except with a worse marketting department and a crappy view of Europe. |
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| Hercule Pyro | Mar 8 2005, 12:00 PM Post #41 |
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You've done some terrible things, Mister Harry
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Yes, but guess what? That's what people want. People want Need for Speed, FIFA, licenses and violence. Is that so wrong? Just because they don't want supposed innovation (OMG TEH BONGOS!!!11) or, frankly, overhyped Japanese bollocks doesn't make them morons. It means, funnily enough, Nintendo aren't responding to the needs and desires of their consumers as a whole. It's all well and wonderful when you're a PC developer, creating games for niche markets, as the costs aren't so high. But when you're making a console and fooling around in the console market, you need to make money. Nintendo aren't making as much as they could, because they're not responding to consumer needs anywhere as quickly as they should. From a business point of view, that's sheer lunacy. Bollocks to "selling out", I'd rather be a sell out and top of the bloody tree than, hah, "true to the fans" on the brink of bankruptcy because I'm trying to market to a niche whereas my rivals are advertising to everybody. Nintendo do have the "blame the phillistine consumers" attitude in Europe. They also seem to be failing in Europe, and compared to the Crate and the Toaster, the Cube is being soundly whipped. if it wasn't for the Game Boy, Nintendo would have been on the brink of extinction in Europe. |
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| Retrogamer! | Mar 8 2005, 12:14 PM Post #42 |
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IT'S HERESY
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As far as I can see in some places one of the only things that keeps Nintendo goin is people who are too stubborn to accept they are being treated like crap and those who buy the Game Boys. Seriously, the the Gamecube has a real problem with creating new fresh games, Metroid 2 is one of the most overhyped games I have ever heard of. and when you really look at it, then you quickly see its a horrible horrible piece of repeated crap. Innovation? I doubt it. Not to mention that its mario this and Zelda that, they REALLY need some new original gaming areas, which is why Sony, Microsoft and the PC market are going so much further than Nintendo. |
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| Pottsy | Mar 8 2005, 12:51 PM Post #43 |
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High Deity of the holy church of "Pottsy-ism"
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Nintendo is over-exhasting Mario and Zelda. And on top of that for the past 3 years nintendo have been re-releasing old snes and nes games. |
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| Master hunter | Mar 8 2005, 10:20 PM Post #44 |
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Sad, Sad Bastard
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You're missing the point entirely. If the public wants that so be it. And if a developer wants to do nothing be appease the public so be it. I'm surprised you're OK with this Eastwood after your topic "I really really hate EA". EA do nothing wrong business wise, but their games are pretty poor. Nintendo are not going to listen to what the public wants if they are still making profits. Their profits may have dropped 43% but that also means they are still making 57% profits. They will rather innovate, or at least make quality titles. Now I admit recently Nintendo's quality has gone down quite a bit, but when you consider they are working on 3 new systems as well as their own games, what they've done is pretty good. The closest thing to what the DS gives is a PDA. A portable PC, if we include the PC none of the consoles can have innovations. So in other words the DS is a sign of their innovation, and in many ways the DS is like the Revolution. Radical ideas that will appeal to the types of developers that like to try new ideas, and not to those who will stick with tried and tested methods. Now here's something I want you to understand, neither choice is a bad one. Playing to what the public wants or doing games that are more likely to be remembered in ten years time, both are good directions to take. As long as you make money where's the issue, and nintendo are making money. |
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| Lothar Hex | Mar 8 2005, 10:34 PM Post #45 |
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Illogical
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However, if Nintendo alienate 3rd party developers and continue treat their customers like shite (which they DO) they could lose money. And Nintendo are hardly innovative anyway, you act as if their games like Metroid Prime are ground breaking. They're not, they the same formula they've been making Metroid games with for years. Donkey Konga is innovative, but dosen't last, which people won't actually realise until they buy it, or only sall kids will get anything more than a weeks play out of it. Its fair enough that youlike Nintendo, but they're not exactly churning our origional games all the time. How many Nintendo developed games can you name on the GC that aren't based on one of their existing I.P's? Apart from Pikmin (thanks for reminding me of that East). It may be the fact that they;ve been around since the beginning, but Nintendo is going stale. And if, like the Dreamcast, they don't get enough Third Party support, the Revolution will fail. However they have the portable market, which like I;ve said, nobody can touch them in. |
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| Master hunter | Mar 8 2005, 11:23 PM Post #46 |
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Sad, Sad Bastard
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While it is true some third parties will be alienated, others will relish in the new ideas. Perhaps this is the beginning of the end. Or perhaps if the revolution does become to costly they'll have to change their ideas. At the moment though they don't have a lot of third party support with the gamecube and are still making profits. Or perhaps Nintendo's ideas will work, and the revolutions new ideas may attract a whole new audience (like the DS seems to have done so far). It's going to have to be a dramatic change for nintendo to be in trouble. I agree Nintendo have gone a bit stale lately, but they've been trying new things hardware wise. I guess only the future will tell. Though it'll be a long time before Nintendo do a SEGA. SEGA had the Mega CD, 32X and Saturn flop before the Dreamcast sealed their fate. |
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| Lothar Hex | Mar 8 2005, 11:40 PM Post #47 |
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Illogical
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Know what annoys me about you Hunter? The fact that you continue to ignore the questions others ask and the way you talk to them as if you're somehow better than they are. I'm debating whether this is unintentional. In other words, stop acting like a smug git as it's annoying. Its fine that you're a fan of Nintendo, but the continuing fanboy qualities and the total lack of acknowledgment to others opinions is getting on my wick. Innovation can only take you so far, and it's not always a good thing. |
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| Master hunter | Mar 9 2005, 01:14 AM Post #48 |
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Sad, Sad Bastard
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Well it just feels like I'm being optimistic about Nintendo's future and you're being pessimistic. I'm stating how Nintendo seem to think, and they seem to want to innovate rather than "sell out". I'm also saying how since money isn't a problem I don't see them ever changing that idea soon. There are three consoles on this market, which will continue onto the next gen. If all 3 went for the generic, power and image is everything route, how will people determine which to buy from the others. The Revolutions ideas may make it stand from the crowd, or it may not help at all. If you think the latter fine, be cautious with the revolution. I'm not happy that Nintendo have done very little software wise this time of note. I would love to see loads of original titles like Pikmin, but in their defence they have been making 3 new consoles. How many top quality Microsoft and Sony titles have we seen? And Microsoft is working on one new console and Sony is working on two. I feel that Nintendo are far from doomed but then they're hardly in the glory years either. They may not be doing everything right but somehow they're making a profit, and as far as company survival goes making a profit is all that matters. So what haven't I answered? Do you feel like Nintendo are simply ignoring third parties in general? Well that's not the case at all. Like I said Iwata is being pessimistic when he says he fears no third party developers will develop for the revolution. They'll at least have SEGA and CAPCOM. Do you feel that Iwata believes the revolution will do well without third party support? I didn't get that impression at all. If anything he sounded worried in that statement. |
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| Lothar Hex | Mar 9 2005, 09:54 AM Post #49 |
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Illogical
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The questions you haven't answered were asked by me, and a couple of othetr users. You seem to be ignoring them because you don't have the answers. And who says SEGA or Capcom would continue to work with Nintendo if the system they made turned out to be a dud? Besides, the Sega games on the GC have been lacklustre at best, some of their best work was done on Xbox (Jet Set Radio, Pnazer Dragoon). I can't really think of a decent SEGA game on the system. Capcom, what have they done for the system? Ported games from other systems to it and remade one. And made some shite Megaman games for the system, woop de fuck. The only game worth mentioning by them on the System (Resident Evil 4) is being ported to PS2 and possibly Xbox. |
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| Master hunter | Mar 9 2005, 10:41 PM Post #50 |
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Sad, Sad Bastard
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Super Monkey ball, F-zero GX? Some of SEGA will most likely work on the revolution for it's new features, others may not. I don't see Smilebit doing anything else but Xbox2 work. That of course is assuming smilebit still exists. I'm not entirely sure how Sammy have reorganised SEGA. Capcom work for every main system, they will make games for the revolution. Whether these are exclusive is a different matter and I can say that'll be one big no, Capcom don't know the meaning of the word "exclusive". Capcom worked well into the Saturn's life, which by that time was doomed. They aren't the type to overlook a system due to risk. And there's Viewtiful Joe and Killer 7 to add to the list of Capcom GCN games. Yes they aren't exclusive but they are still there. As for the subject of Nintendo, you're right. This generation they have been poor. I'm sure I've said that. They haven't pushed the boundaries this generation, but that's because they're busy working on 3 new systems. If the Revolution suffers from this then Nintendo may as well concentrate on hardware and move to a publishers role. Who's to say it will? The Revolution may be the turn around from Nintendo their fans are waiting for. |
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