11 AR

Angkar: Dry season. Often sunny, but precipitation is rare. Humidity is low, some bodies of water may have dried up, and bushfires can occur. The rainforest sees evenly distributed rainfall throughout the season.

Ashoka: Desert: Cooler temperatures, although still relatively hot. Violent, heavy downpours following long dryspells. Jungle: Hot and humid with frequent, violent rainstorms.

Morrim: Cool, wet, and windy, rain is common, although snow is, on the whole, infrequent (there may, however, be some seemingly random snow storms) in the interior, and any snow that accumulates along the coast quickly disappears. Early in the season it is very stormy, wet, and windy, while the end of the season is characterized by less wind, less precipitation, and lower temperatures. Towards the mountains heavy snowfall is quite frequent and the temperatures drop significantly.

Soto: Covered in anywhere from a foot to four or five feet of snow, Soto is very cold. Windchills are common and can severely drop the temperature at times. Deciduous trees have no leaves while coniferous trees continue to bear needles. Slow or still bodies of water have frozen over.


January 16, 2018 As you might have noticed, Elenlond has a new skin, all thanks to Mel! Don't forget to check out the new OTMs as well!

December 2, 2017 Winter has settled on Elenlond, bringing sleep for some and new life for others.

September 26, 2017 With the belated arrival of autumn come some interesting developments: new OTMs, a Town Crier and the release of the Elly Awards winners!

July 14, 2017 After a bit of forum clean-up, Elly Awards season has arrived! Head on over to make your nominations!

May 31, 2017 Summer has arrived and so has activity check! That's not all though – we also have some new OTMs for you and some staff changes!


Elenlond is an original free-form medieval fantasy RPG set on the continent of Soare and the Scattered Isles, which are located to the south in the Sea of Diverging Waters. The four chief nations of the western side of the world—Ashoka in northern Soare, Soto in western Soare, Morrim in eastern Soare, and Angkar, the largest of the Scattered Isles—continue to experience growth and prosperity since the fall of the Mianorite gods, although power struggles within the countries—or outside of them—continue to ensue.


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    Angkar: To honour the reinvigoration of the ancient city of Mondrágon, the majestic Queen Eulalia has permitted the opening of a Coliseum where people from around the world and all walks of life can test their combat skills against one another. Many have already done battle in search of honour, glory, prizes and money.

    Ashoka: In an otherwise peaceful times, Ashokans are beset with the relatively minor inconveniences of wandering undead and occasionally-aggressive giant rock worms. There has also been some controversy over the recent re-legalisation of human sacrifice.

    Morrim: Rumour has it that Emperor Leofric de Hollemark is mustering forces for a war. Though the threat from Soto’s forests has passed, the forces previously employed in watching the forest now linger at the border. Rumours also circulate of a small group that has been dispatched to make contact with the tribes of the Do’suul Mountains.

    Soto: The Sotoans have defeated the fey and liberated themselves from Méadaigh’s oppression! Preliminary efforts have been made at rebuilding the city of Madrid, which had been captured at the beginning of the war. However, the Sotoans are hindered from recovery famine. Méadaigh’s magic caused summer to persist in the Erth’netora Forest through the winter. Her power has been withdrawn and the plants die as if preparing for winter – even though it is now summer. The Sotoans must sustain off what food they can get, what creatures they can kill and what can be imported into the city from Morrim and Angkar.

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    Welcome to our home, a world in which anything can happen. From sprawling deserts and vast forests to massive volcanoes and luscious hot springs, Soare and the Scattered Isles are beautiful places just waiting to be explored. For the brave and the bold or the cautious and the wary, creatures of all kinds roam the earth, looking for adventure or for a place to call their own. Species of all kinds - the well-known and the unknown - thrive here, though not always in harmony.

    Elenlond is an original medieval fantasy RPG with a world that's as broad as it is unique. Calling on characters of all kinds, the sky's the limit in a world where boundaries are blurred and the imagination runs rampant. Restrictions are limited and members are encouraged to embrace their creativity, to see where they can go and what they can do. It's no longer just text on a page - it becomes real.

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    Some Character Interaction/Plot Changes
    Topic Started: Feb 5 2018, 01:32 PM (251 Views)
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    Thus conscience does make cowards of us all/ And thus the native hue of resolution/ Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought.

    Ayee dudes, got a bunch of suggestions.

    So, being that this is an RP site, and Elly is much more focused on characters and creativity, I’d like to celebrate that. It makes sense that character actions should be more impactful and given board-wide notice. So, I bring to you….

    1) A Reputation System.

    If a character is an epic villain or legend, it should be immediately apparent and known to everyone through Elenlond. Older players might be familiar with who the legends are (like Sophia, Tekun, etc), but newer players might not be.

    So I suggest we put some kind of reputation scale in the mini-profile shown when a player posts. That way new members can immediately get a grasp on who they’re RPing with, and their character can react appropriately.

    Reputations are ONLY formed by public perception. For example, a thread between 2 people in the forest will not be eligible for a reputation change. However, if 2 characters blow up a forest town, then that will be eligible for a rep change, because they did something TERRIBLE in the public eye. Why would you be so mean?

    That said, I imagine it would differ by position and region. For example, everyone knows that Orion de Lancy was an evil shitlord, so throughout Soare he’d be branded as a Villain or Reputation: -1000 or something. But for Joe Shmoe, who hasn’t ventured outside of their country, it might be something like:

    Soto: 20
    Angkar: 0
    Ashoka: 0
    Morrim: 0

    Jumping off from that…

    2) Mission Boards/Contracts!

    These are pre-made thread prompts that can effect reputations. The more impactful and the more public, the more points. Some that are just plain evil will have negative repercussions if you succeed. A different “mission board” will be posted PER COUNTRY, and organized within by region. So for example:

    Thread Location: Pinned in Ashoka forum

    Thread Title: Mission Board (or whatever)


    1) Minimum of 2 players per thread.
    2) Staff reserve the right to determine if a mission was a success or failure.
    3) Godmoding, power playing, or other abuses will disqualify the thread and no reputation will be awarded.
    4) Characters can only sign up for 2 missions at a time. Missions must be completed for them to be eligible for a new one. Exceptions can be made, of course, if someone becomes inactive, etc. Threads without a reply for [insert time here] and an ambiguous end are considered inactive.
    5) Post below with the following format:

    Mission Location:
    Mission Number:
    Character: (include profile link)


    Mission #1:
    The Inquisition is looking to take down a serial killer that has been terrorizing the slums of the city, and needs leads. Bring him to justice!

    Success: +20 reputation
    Failure: -20 reputation

    Mission #2:
    A petty thief has been stealing cabbages from NPC, but the city guard is too busy to deal with it. Bring the thief to justice!

    Success: +2 reputation
    Failure: -2 reputation

    Mission #3:
    The noble NPC has his finger in too many pies. His rival wants him gone. Assassinate him.

    Success: -40 reputation
    Failure: -10 reputation



    Mission #1: Character A and Character B
    Mission #2: Character D and Character T
    Mission #3: Available for players.

    And so on.

    The idea is to give players a prompt that’s more impactful than just “2 people drinking in a tavern,” and aid in character development. If someone wants an evil character with street cred, it makes sense that they would do missions that enhance their bad reputation.

    Note: The threads themselves will be run by players, maybe with a few exceptions, like if a DM needs to step in to play an important noble, monster, etc.

    I might also suggest that these missions can be ordered by character abilities. Given the HUGE disparity in abilities, it’s just not fair to have a super OP character complete an easy mission in 2 seconds. While not binding, I think something like:

    Mission #2:
    A petty thief has been stealing cabbages from NPC, but the city guard is too busy to deal with it. Bring the thief to justice!

    Success: +2 reputation
    Failure: -2 reputation

    Suggested Level: Basic to Low Intermediate

    …Might be helpful. Of course, ultimately it can be up to Player Discretion. But that’s why rule #3 is in place.

    3) Reputation Review

    I talked to Mel about this and I think he’s going to get into the nitty gritty of it. Ain’t a staff so idk how you dudes would wanna do it. Basically the same thing as a character Ability Review thread, just with reputation. Submit a completed mission for review, or a personal thread with a reputation change request (-5/+5, etc).

    4) Changing mindset from “Plots” to “Events.”

    Given that Elly is such a HUGE world, I think we should do away with the concept of “plots”; i.e. world-shaking, binding stuff that you have to formally sign up for.

    Instead what I suggest are “events” like the ones in the Town Crier. What are “Events?"

    1) An impactful event concentrated in 1-2 regions, or breaks out in small ways throughout Soare.
    2) A few official OPEN threads (i.e. written by Plotters) that can be signed up for, but are more like group threads than anything.

    For example:

    1) Slave Riots are breaking out through Ashoka and Morrim.
    • A slave ship is overtaken and crashes into Fairin.
    • Slave owners are executed publicly in Orl’Kabbar.

    2) A bad harvest has left Sotoans starving.

    • Food riots in Reine
    • Starving people killing merchants and stealing their wares

    3) Spotty disease outbreaks.
    • Panicked Morrimians are quarantining citizens into sick houses and burning them, or shipping them off in droves.
    • A hospital in Kinaldi is overflowing with patients and needs help.

    …Yadda yadda.

    That way, we can cover a wide range of places, and have these events pop up and be freeform, perhaps lead to other threads, etc. ALSO: perhaps there can be a mass PM sent out to every member when a new Event Thread is posted, so it pops up in real time? ;P

    5) A DM/Plotter Position

    Basically an account or position that enables someone to post an Event Thread, set up the stage in the first post, and then let the participating players do the rest.

    Perhaps a DM Account can be a volunteer position, i.e. a non-staff position that just generates content to put on the site. Since putting pressure on mods/admins to write all these posts is craycray.

    That’s all for now!
    Edited by Phaedrus, Feb 5 2018, 01:39 PM.
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    And with his sword my breast he cleft, / My quaking heart thereout he reft, / And in the yawning of my breast / A coal of living fire he pressed.

    This has been in the works for a while, but it bears saying that the staff really like these ideas and are on board with them. I’m going to talk throw out suggestions point-by-point, in roughly the same order that Crow did, for the sake of organization; if there’s any confusion, let me know and I’ll try to point you in the right direction (or explain myself more thoroughly).

    1) Reputation

    This is strong – and the basis of most of the proposed new features, so it’s probably the most important. It would be great if people could prioritize this in their discussion, since it’s also the most open to criticism/building.

    While points systems can be useful, seeing reputation as a +/- binary can be problematic, especially when it comes to infamy. On the one hand, it seems easy: a positive reputation entails being viewed in a good light, and a negative reputation entails being viewed in a bad light. On the other, what about people who are liked by half of the population and disliked by the other? How do we articulate “controversial” in a number?

    We’d like for people to suggest/discuss ways of showing nuance in a reputation system. Elenlond is all about shades of grey. If, for example, Glede rescued people – giving him a +20 – and then tortured an innocent person by mistake – giving him a -20 – he’d be at 0, which would be the same as Joe Schmoe; he’s still famous, but nobody knows how to feel about him. Joe Schmoe is not famous. How do we articulate the difference?

    Some of this can be addressed in the “Reputation Review” section, but the points system itself needs to be discussed, since at first glance it suggests a binarism which does not really reflect the tone of the site.

    2) Missions

    There’s not much to add here. Other than the reputation points (which we’re going to figure out in this thread anyway), by default, we’d probably implement it this way.

    What staff would like to suggest/throw out for discussion is the idea that missions shouldn’t be originated just by staff. Do we like the idea that anyone can post an addition to these Mission threads?

    An example would be this: Jane Doe, a member, has lost her bracelet and would like for someone to find it. Her player posts with her account in the Missions thread suggesting that she needs help finding her bracelet, probably using a pre-made form (with a sign up sheet).

    This would also allow non-staff members with characters in prominent political positions to recruit bodyguards, mercenaries, etc. and allow even commoners to get in on the fun.

    On the other hand, this doesn’t work so well with the points system, unless staff goes through each mission individually and assigns points.

    Should these “missions”, therefore, be staff-run and formal, awarding set points, or should they be “adoptable threads” that anybody can get in on?

    There may also be overlap with the changing mindset represented in Crow’s #4, but we’ll get to that.

    3) Reputation Review

    This is the meat of any Reputation system, and regardless of points, controls how it actually functions and how staff knows to award reputations (point system or not). Since Crow gave me the floor for this one, I’ll describe how staff decided this would probably work, and we can criticize/change it up as we go.

    You’d have a subforum devoted to Reputations; it would be under Character Forums, probably right underneath the Review Book. Pinned in Reputations would be a topic along the lines of the Town Crier. This topic would be a very comprehensive list of events going on, built mostly from the suggestions of players (we’ll get to how that happens in the meantime). It would likely be updated fluidly, or on a much tighter schedule than the Crier. If we did points, it would probably also contain some sort of scoreboard, although I will say that staff is hesitant to do a point system for the aforementioned reasons. Once again, we can doubtless discuss that and come to a conclusion here.

    The rest of the threads in Reputations would be player-created, akin to abilities threads in the Review Book. If you wanted something to go into the pinned topic, you’d post updates there (and justifications with links to threads/chronicles/explanations; we’d be flexible and aware of context). In addition, if we did a scoreboard, you’d cash in your points there; you’d either prove you did the “mission” for the exact amount of points, or post your thread and wait for staff to assign a certain amount of points to your character.

    Of course, this would be done through forms, as with the Review Book.

    Since I can very well see how this might be confusing, feel free to ask a lot of questions. How the forms look is contingent upon what sort of reputation system we decide to do, and your input is very important in that respect.

    4) Changing Mindset from “Plots” to “Events”

    Seconding this. There’s overlap here with the Reputations/more comprehensive Town Crier suggestion in #3, but the two points are getting across subtly different ideas.

    How do we feel about the way the “plots” subforum is currently set up? Could it be better? Would anyone like for it to be elsewhere? In light of some sort of reputations subforum, would we want to do away with the Current Events subforum altogether and favor a more fluid, consistently-updated, member-contributed approach?

    There’s a lot to discuss here, and nobody is obligated to respond to everything. Every little bit helps.

    (I’d also like to add that while a Mass PM system isn’t a Zetaboards function, we might be able to come up with a code/module. Still, there are no promises on this. I’m also personally looking into a pinging function – typing @Name, for example, and giving another member a notification – but once again, there is no guarantee that we can do that with Zetaboards.)

    5) DM/Plotter Account

    All we really want to say about this at the moment is that there is a DM account, and we’d be happy to use it more often (or differently) if there’s a desire for it. We’d also consider having more than one.

    There are a few ways we could do this practically, and one of them is to have a communal account that volunteers could request permission to use (and receive the login details/etc). We’d potentially have several, which seems like the only way to pull off a communal DM.

    Ideas on this are welcome, too, though it’s not as much a priority as figuring out other things first. Activity on the DM account’s part will be largely dependent on how we decide to do missions, events, and reputations.

    That's about it -- let me know if I've left something out, and thank you all in advance for your input (and thanks to Crow for setting up the discussion to begin with). Hopefully we can put the results of all this into practice quite soon.
    Member Avatar
    Thus conscience does make cowards of us all/ And thus the native hue of resolution/ Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought.

    @ Reputation:

    Yeh, gradations/subtlety is hard to convey in reputations. I think there's the risk of getting too in-depth with a sidebar profile. I dunno how one would tackle the graphics of that. But for the system itself, um...

    Instead of just a -/+ system, maybe there should just be straight points. With a system like the abilities system, for example:

    (These are just arbitrary numbers btw, doesn’t have to be these!)

    0 - Unknown
    50 - Known in town

    100- Known in city
    300 - Known throughout [country].
    1200 - Known across all Soare. Sovs start with this.

    1500 - Known throughout Elenlond (requires RPing in places like Green Turtle Key, Daro, etc, very rare and difficult to get).

    That way no negative or positives are attributed to them right away; it's just a mark of how well known they are.

    Within that:

    300 pts would be the cap per country. So for example, if someone has 300 pts in Soto, they can’t become even more well known; they’d have to start gaining rep in another country. Perhaps there could be caps per city as well. Like you can’t get any more famous in Orl’Kabbar after you hit 100 pts. You’d have to move on to another major city in Morrim like Kinaldi, get another 100 pts there, etc.

    I imagine this would be by country b/c a character who's well known in MURRIM might not be known at all in Ashoka.

    It also bears saying some characters might be local legends in places like Orl'Kabbar (like Shell), but people wouldn't know her in Madrid. For that reason, I like the idea of local/city legends, but I’m not sure how to incorporate that mechanic without it being super duper complicated? >.>

    Then there could be an additional button/graphic or whatever describing what that number means. So, for example:

    - Exalted
    - Well-liked
    - Neutral
    - Disliked
    - Hated

    I don’t really know what to do for the 1/2 population hating, 1/2 population loving thing; "neutral,” I guess?

    That system seems fairly simplistic/vague. It’d be nice to have more specific stuff but idk. Perhaps there could be special labels nestled within that as well, like:

    Local Hero/Legend


    So for example, for Phaedrus:

    After Silvertongue, a thread where he unleashes havoc in the Coliseum with Qayin, his reputation would probably be like:


    Reputation: 50 (?)

    I think the point of this system would be to encourage players to make a particular city or country their home, do impactful stuff there, run their own events and mini-quests in order to get reputation changes.

    I’d also be interested in a mechanic where players are rewarded in some way for reaching these caps (like abilities systems).

    Perhaps at 300 pts, a character can become part of the royal court or some other high-status thing affecting countries, be eligible to host a “sov” party themselves, etc. I dunno. Something that would make sense ICly but still be rewarding.

    For example:

    Reno wants to make his character Shiro a councilor. Maybe she’d have to build up 100 rep points in Madrid to become well-known enough to run for a position. ICly, it makes sense for her to garner a reputation in Madrid anyhoots, so this would be rewarding the effort. Then in the Town Crier or Events, it could say “Shiro Sogeki is running for Councilor!” Or something.


    Have a multilayered system organized by:

    Reputation Points:
    Reputation: (Bad, good, etc)
    Criminal Status: Y/N
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    Thus conscience does make cowards of us all/ And thus the native hue of resolution/ Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought.

    @ Plots:

    How do we feel about the way the “plots” subforum is currently set up? Could it be better? Would anyone like for it to be elsewhere? In light of some sort of reputations subforum, would we want to do away with the Current Events subforum altogether and favor a more fluid, consistently-updated, member-contributed approach?

    Just some layout stuff, first (I’m using the Unicorn one btw):

    1) I think the “PLOT” tab below the banner shouldn’t contain info about Elly. I think the “about” and 2-2-2 rating section should be moved to a separate tab called “ABOUT.”

    I don’t mind the current events blurb in the “PLOT” tab, personally! I think the space being taken up by the general info can be used for something else though.

    2) On the “NAVIGATION” box to the left, there’s no plot link at all. It’s nestled under "latest posts," which is odd and not intuitive.

    I think “Open Threads” and “Plot” should be given their own links, or some way to make them more eminent.

    Currently, "Current Events" is under "Character Forums," and the subform “Plots” is buried under “Thread Requests.”

    In that case, why don’t we have a section called:

    Board Events

    Forum: Current Events
    Subforum: Town Crier
    Subforum: Bulletin Board/Missions
    * > Angkar
    * > Ashoka
    * > Soto
    * > Morrim
    * > Other

    Forum: Character Plots
    Subforum: Thread Requests
    Pinned: Open Threads

    …Something like that? Hard to say. At any rate, I think the Town Crier, open threads and plots need more love.
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    Y'aight so here are my thoughts on the whole matter. First of all, these are all suggestions; feel free to bash them or praise them or outright deny them as you see fit. Secondly, they are (admittedly) not written out very well. I'll try to organize them but I promise nothing.


    First: break down Elenlond into individual cities/areas (based on subforum), and divide up the reputation points into these cities. That way, whenever someone submits a reputation request, they can point to exactly where they want their points to go.

    • Eldahar - 0/100
    • Ikioi's Oasis - 0/75
    • City of Oracles - 0/100
    • No'bu Jungle - 0/50
    • Tamarind Bay (excluding Etruria) - 0/75
    • Etruria - 0/100
    • Xeric Scrubs - 0/50
    • Badlands - 0/25
    • Other (wilderness) - 0/25

    Morrim etc
    Soto etc
    Angkar etc
    Other etc

    Orrr something like that. I'm guessing at the numbers. Also some of them are weighted--bigger cities have more sway than less-populated towns, after all. It'll give us all an easy outline to refer back to, and then we won't have to wonder over details or have any inconsistencies between members, or even staffers.

    As for how to post it, I think it would be cleanest if each character posted the entire outline (filled in with zeroes) in one post, similar to their tracker, or perhaps on their profile under their abilities. Once they make a separate post in the review book and get their reputation changes approved, then they can update their profile to reflect the changes.

    As for positive/negative reputations, why not have two different numbers? Taking Eldahar for example, Joe Schmoe puts out a barn fire and gains 10 reputation points, then he gets caught pickpocketing and loses 5. His reputation would look like:

    • Eldahar - 15/100 (+10, -5)
    • Ikioi's Oasis - 0/75
    • etc

    If his reputation for a city is currently maxed out then....I don't know, maybe convert half the total of the change? Say that before, Joe had 100/100 (+75, -25) and then he flayed his dog in the street or something. He submits -20 in the reputation request, then afterwards he'd be at 100/100 (+65, -35). That way, reputations can change as well as grow.

    As for summarizing the whole thing into one little blurb that can be put in the mini-avatar-profile-thing, just take the sum of all their reputations and list those three numbers. Maybe they'd be at 457/1000 (+95, -362) and that's what we'd see in their mini profile. If that's too vague, maybe add the country in which they have the most reputation, which would look like: 457/1000 (+95, -362), Soto

    As far as events go, it would make the most sense to have a country-based "bulletin board" of sorts, where characters could request help with various tasks. The only problem I can see with this is that not every character (Nispa included) can read....still, for the majority of players, that could work out very well. Players could post their own events, and staff could set up additional ones as they see fit.

    That's all for now!
    Edited by Nispa, Feb 6 2018, 12:03 AM.
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    Thus conscience does make cowards of us all/ And thus the native hue of resolution/ Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought.


    Oh heck Nispers, that's a great idea! ;0; I love the separate caps and +/- thang. Very noice. Since people are multifaceted and people would probably hear rumors of one thing, rumors of another, and two characters may have a different response based on like... how trusting they are? Lol.

    For graphics/representation in the mini-profile, how about a "health bar" of sorts, organized by country? Negative being on the left, positive in the right. Perhaps color coded. So.

    Soto: ||||||| - |||||||

    ... etc.

    Also, for the Bulletin Board, I don't think it's a problem. We can make it an OOC thing, or if we want to keep it IC, there could be rumors and requests that characters hear about, like "I heard Old Man Jenkins lost his cat!" or whatever. I think all of that can be explained in-character in the actual RP thread if one so wishes.

    The only thing I foresee here is how is that different from the thread request subform? Unless it's kinda like an open thread situation where you, a player, just submits a form in a pinned topic like:

    Mission Name:
    Character/Mun: *
    Suggested Difficulty/Level:
    Reputation Points: **
    Other Notes:

    *A link to some contact would be nice so members know what account is best to PM if they choose to communicate that way.

    **Perhaps just a raw number, and then players can determine what allocates to positive and negative. For instance, they might save someone's cat, but then set a fruit stand on fire by accident. Only problem is, what happens when you join a mission with 10 eligible points, but then end up murdering someone in plain sight? I think that would warrant more than a -10. One could say it's up to Player Discretion to see the number of points available and act accordingly, but unexpected stuff can happen I guess.
    *** To be edited in later.

    ..And then the mod/admin can approve it or make changes to the rep system (like... you wouldn't get +100 rep if you save Old Man Jenkins kitty) and then edit it into the Master Post. Then perhaps the entirety of the bulletin board can be wiped every couple months (or however long) to make room for new stuff, like the Open Threads forum. (And of course players would be welcome to submit the same request)!


    Mission Name: Baking Woes
    Location: Madrid
    Character/Mun: Phaedrus /Crow
    Difficulty Level: Basic
    Description: A horrible creature has stolen Phaedrus' fresh tray of croissants, and it's up to you to get it back!
    Reputation Points: 5
    Participants: Character A and Character B
    Other Notes: N/A

    Another suggestion wrt Reputations:

    Perhaps at certain caps, people will receive some kind of title? The rep will be based on their highest negative or positive number.

    +50: Local Hero.


    -100: Criminal.

    -1000: Kill on sight.

    Like, for example, if Andromalius or Orion were just walking around, they'd have a pretty bad time and would probably be attacked on sight by most of the population. Though idk if that limits player creativity. What do you think?
    Edited by Phaedrus, Feb 6 2018, 03:55 AM.
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    Unter friedlichen Umständen fällt der kriegerische Mensch über sich selber her.

    Hey, if y'all don't mind me butting in, I have some views on all this. I'm sorry if this comes out sounding harsh at all! I certainly don't mean it that way; I really appreciate that this discussion is happening. It's cool to see brainstorming happen this way. Also I hope this is coherent – I haven't slept much.

    1. Reputation
    I have some qualms about how complex this point system thing is turning out to be. This is difficult to understand at first glance, and I think things like this should be generally intuitive, both for the sake of new members and for the sake of existing members who are going to have to adjust to it when its implemented – and for the sake of the staff too, because staff will have to comprehend it, navigate the system and field questions.

    Besides that, I don't think numbers accurately convey the nuance of how a person is perceived by the world. The example I keep thinking of is that Aniketos is generally famous for being a war hero now, but some people look at the same acts and have totally different opinions. Some think he was brave and smart and the saviour of Soto, etc., but others will look at those same actions and decisions and be angry that he didn't save more lives. Or – what if someone at a party whips off their bra and swings it around in the air? Some people would find this utterly hilarious, other people would get prudish and think it's oafish and offensive. I don't know how to portray that with numbers, and besides – your character might think that it's pretty cool that Joe Schmoe flayed his dog in the middle of the street because they're part of Dog Flayers United or they're Kaahn or something. I don't think it's up to us to dictate, with a system of numbers, how your character will be perceived by other people's characters.

    When this was proposed here is what I initially imagined:
    • A board where people can post threads that quickly cover what a character is known for so that, if you're threading with that character for the first time and don't know anything about them, you can figure out your character's preconceived notions about them without having to do lots of research. It could also help people figure out how their character might meet yours – because, let's be honest, that might not be immediately apparent from a character's profile. So, basically, I was seeing it as an optional tool for brainstorming.
    • There would be some staff oversight – basically confirming that no one is making anything up or putting out anything Mary Sue-ish ("Everyone loved it when Joe Schmoe flayed his dog in the street! Now he's a national hero!"). I was also thinking that we could potentially provide loose guidelines/beginnings of ideas about how your character is perceived, e.g. "Joe Schmoe is generally not well-liked in Mondragón after that thing he did with the electric mixer. Expect dirty looks and maybe even aggression from the city's inhabitants, generally." I'm not certain on this exactly because I'm not sure what people will want from this in terms of staff guidance.
    • It could also be a place where we offer our services with the DM account, namely, we can offer to have NPCs assault Joe Schmoe at any point when he's in public/not wearing his fake moustache.

    My general point with this is that I think everyone here can be trusted to make their own judgements about how their character is received in various places without such a particular system – we just could do with a platform that allows people to think about it in this way. Also, as you said – instituting anything like a "kill on sight" rule could get really restrictive to creativity. It would be kind of like when you accidentally exile yourself from society in Oblivion because you stole an apple. I worry about it limiting where characters could go – which is the kind of thing Elenlond has had a bad history with. I think this has to leave room for breathing and trust in players' common sense (e.g. about how Orion would be treated if he ever came back to Eldahar.)

    I'm curious though – what do you find to be the peculiar positives of any sort of point/token system? What does it do that a looser system wouldn't?

    I don't want to shoot this down or anything – if popular opinion is for it then I will cede to it, so long as we can do it in a reasonable way – I'm just here to point out what might be roadblocks.

    2. Missions
    I only want to say three small things here:

    I don't think we should do Missions threads per area. That will be hard to maintain, plus I don't think we'll ever have a mission going on in every single section at any given time. I think we should keep them centralised, perhaps in whatever will become of the Plots/Thread Request area.

    As I am considering an alternative to the points system, I am wondering what would/could be an incentive for doing a mission without a reward of points? Just the fun of it, or maybe a smaller version of the points system that builds up to extra abilities or some other sort of prize?

    (If it is a tiny points system, a mission success is a mission success, no matter how many people died because you saved Old Man Jenkins' cat. The fact that the city guard are now chasing you is your own problem but, hey, experience is experience!!)

    Also, maybe I missed something but are we thinking that mission threads should be run by the DM account? What does that look like, either way? Like, would we have full-fledged posts, or would the DM just chip in with "this happens" or what?

    4. Plots vs. Events
    I rather like this Events idea; it's a much improved version of things I've been trying to accomplish with the Town Crier.
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    I'm not entirely sold on that idea, Ani. I can see where you're coming from--we can't convey nuances in numbers--but this is going to be a summary, whereas you're proposing a fuller description. The intuitive place for that seems to be in the 'history' section of a character's profile, where they can describe the events of a character's past. The profile is a hub of character information, after all, and most people read that when threading with someone for the first time. Having a separate post feels clunky and difficult.

    Perhaps we should be updating our profiles more often, then!

    I completely agree with leaving mission locations open-ended, unless there are circumstances that need a particular location. For example, someone might post a mission to take down a slaving operation. "Orl'kabbar" would be implied, although the players could easily say that the operation was in Angkar somewhere. Sometimes, though, the location would have to be specified--say that someone wanted help with rebuilding their home in Madrid. Then the location couldn't be moved. Most missions would be open-ended, then, and much more accessible to more players.

    As for mission rewards, I also think a point system wouldn't work well here. Mission hosters could offer an item reward, or maybe a monetary sum. Most people won't ask for help without offering something in return; leaving missions without immediate IC rewards feels wrong and limiting. Perhaps a merchant needs to clear a fallen tree from the Kaadian Way so they can drive their cart past. They could offer some of their wares to anyone who assists them. Maybe a mage needs help finding a certain magical item--they could offer to teach a certain spell to anyone who brings it to them. That could tap into the "abilities" side of things. (It would, of course, still have to be approved by staffers.) We could still have an OOC mission tracker, but it should be in addition to the IC rewards.
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    Thus conscience does make cowards of us all/ And thus the native hue of resolution/ Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought.

    @ Missions:

    Also, maybe I missed something but are we thinking that mission threads should be run by the DM account? What does that look like, either way? Like, would we have full-fledged posts, or would the DM just chip in with "this happens" or what?

    Nupe. Not entirely. I would imagine that these mission threads would--for the most part-- just be hop-off points for players to create themselves. They would sign up for missions, then be responsible for playing them out.

    DMs would only step in if there was some necessity because they needed to drive the plot a certain way, or because there's a monster or NPC central to it that a player can't play. So for example, say the thread you had with Chimaed in Etruria. I imagine it would be something like this:

    Mission: Help Slay Undead!
    Description: A massive Dead Sea monster has been spotted in Etruria and you need to help kill it.
    Participants: Lillith, Reid, Glede.
    DM: Ephie.

    In this case, you would DM the monster and leader of the mission (Chimaed). In this particular case, you could use a personal character account. But say you didn't include Chimaed. You would then DM the monster.

    Or something like:

    Mission: Dragons Afoot!
    Description: A massive dragon has been spotted flying over the Do'Suul and burning sheep. Lady Mordecai has offered a reward to those who can slay it.
    Participants: Player A, Player B
    DM: Crow.

    In which case I'd play the dragon. For the most part, this system is intended for fairness and continuity. For example, having 2 players play a dragon may lead to inconsistencies in power, descriptions, purpose, etc. It may also leave it open to GMing or Power Playing. For example, what if a player controls the dragon but makes it just sit around? Then another player tries to control it and retcons that, saying it was flying around? That's why a DM ought to play it.

    In this case, I would write the first post of the thread, set up the mood/setting where the dragon is located, and then other players would post.

    I would also use a DM account, because I don't have any NPC or player accounts that would be appropriate for this.

    Otherwise, it would be totally player-generated. For example, you don't have to step in to write Old Man Jenkins (unless he's secretly some immensely powerful necromancer waiting to strike). You can leave that to the players. Or maybe they don't write him in at all.


    I'm not entirely sold on that idea, Ani. I can see where you're coming from--we can't convey nuances in numbers--but this is going to be a summary, whereas you're proposing a fuller description.

    I agree. The purpose of numbers is just to show how well known a player character is.

    Then you can go into the nitty-gritty of it and describe their reputations in a thread.

    Perhaps instead of it being appended to a profile, there can be a subform called Reputations that's entirely devoted to character sheets with their reputations on them. So for Phaedrus, say it'd be something like this:

    Mini-Profile On Post:
    This would show how well known a character is, and the likelihood that a player would know them, with 300 being nearly universally known, like the Emperor, unless you live under a rock.

    Soto: 50/300
    Angkar: 20/300
    Ashoka: 5/300
    Morrim: 40/300

    Post on Reputation Topic :
    This would be a Master Post with the updated point system and descriptions. Below, members would post to get their reputation changes approved, like the personal Abilities Thread. You would also post the breakdown by city.

    Topic Title: Phaedrus' Reputation

    First Post:

    1) Soto
    Overall: 50/100
    Overview: Phaedrus is not known across Soto. He is known primarily in Madrid, as he lives there.

    Madrid: 50/100

    Phaedrus has a mixed reputation in Madrid. Some know him as a reeling drunk, others as a cheating, cavorting fop, others as an unstable loon, others as a menacing necromancer. After the siege and battle at Nemetona, many are now aware of his powers. Needless to say... those who fought alongside him give him a wide berth now.


    4) Morrim

    Orl'Kabbar: 40/100

    Phaedrus has a reputation as a banisher in Orl'Kabbar, and is generally despised by those in the underbelly of the city, but praised by the clergy. However, when he is not masquerading as Phaedrus, he has a dark reputation, depending on who you are: he is responsible for killing occultists, setting their spaces on fire, murdering debtors and piking their heads outside. To the crimelords, it inspires fear. To the people haunted by debtors, and experimented on by occultists, it gives them hope.

    I think a balance of numbers and description would be good.
    Edited by Phaedrus, Feb 7 2018, 06:34 AM.
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    Unter friedlichen Umständen fällt der kriegerische Mensch über sich selber her.

    Okay, I see what y'all are getting at. As we're starting to make a distinction between how well known a person is and whether they're known for good or bad things it makes more sense to use points. It started getting complicated when it was assumed that the scale had to represent the general tone of public opinion, but if we worked with just notability it would be much simpler. So yeah, this balance of numbers and explanation sounds good. I think that combination would say: "your character might already know of this character, now decide how your character feels about what they have done."

    I know it seems redundant at first but I don't think the history section is the place to put this sort of thing. I just updated Kist's history and have been thinking that there it doesn't feel like there's naturally a place there to describe what Kist is known for and whether the whole affair with the Temple of the Provider is actually a well-known thing. Or, as another example, a lot of Nevneni's history covers her internal life and travels, which she did alone, but it doesn't seem like the right place to cover how she may be a slightly famous figure in certain areas for her work as a healer. Given the right platform, like what Crow is proposing, there could be room to expand on this dimension of a character: like how Nevneni might be known in a part of Fairin for saving a child from a severe illness – something which I've never roleplayed, but which is entirely probable and which I haven't had the chance or reason to seriously consider until now. Similarly, there's plenty of old rumors about Aniketos that I've written about in threads but which would unnecessarily inflate his already-bloated history section.

    Basically, I'm starting to think that the history section of a profile is good for narrating the bones of the events of a character's life, which covers their internality and their actions, while this might be good for comprehending a character's impact on the world and how they are received by it – therefor externality.

    I think this more or less would happen anyways because a necessary part of the process is submitting a laundry list of a character's actions.

    Either way, I see how it can come off as redundant, which is part of why I at least don't imagine this being mandatory or having strict control over how in-depth it should be.

    I think I didn't express myself clearly – one can always set a location, we should just have that set location be part of the form (like what Crow was putting down just now) so we can stick all mission requests in a single OOC board without having a bunch of different missions threads for every country or what have you. It would just be super inconvenient, from an administrative perspective, to maintain all of them when it could just be centralised in one thread. However, leaving the location of a mission open-ended is always an option.
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    And with his sword my breast he cleft, / My quaking heart thereout he reft, / And in the yawning of my breast / A coal of living fire he pressed.

    Mostly little things in my reply. Ephie has said a lot of what I am thinking, but there are a few points I want to add:


    The idea of numbers to denote a character's notoriety is reasonable, but a little abstract; if we're going to do the points, then I think they should build up to/be attached to something humanly relatable. I thought of a couple of options, but there may be more.

    Can we, and are we willing to, think of this in terms of groups?

    As it is, we have member groups like Citizen and Sovereign, and then (OOC) Moderator and Admin. I've seen plenty of sites use member groups to denote rank/notoriety -- commoners, criminals, nobles, etc. all having different colors/badges. Nationality and faction potentially make this problematic, but it seems that what we're looking for here is more general (numbers are more general anyway) and easily visible/accessible.

    Of course, you'd use points to figure out what group a character belonged to. If they're a criminal who pays their dues and helps out with the community, staff could put them back in the citizen group; if they become patronized by a noble lord or come into a lot of money, we could make them a noble. We could even have one for clergy, government occupations, or traveling merchants that don't have citizenship in any country. I've seen this mostly in sites with plots that involve castes, but I've also seen it in medieval fantasy sites (what with feudal systems).

    (Obviously each country's socioeconomic classes are a little more nuanced than just "Criminal", "Citizen", "Outsider", etc.; but once again, socioeconomic classes are more nuanced than points, too. The real nuance comes out in the descriptions.)

    There are also Ranks, which involve little visible pips and seem to be independent from Member Groups (like Citizen or Sovereign). I think you can replace the pips with an image (like the Citizen image), too. I'd need to experiment to know more about how that works, but it also seems like an option for the above (which wouldn't overwrite visible Admin/Mod status).

    There's also a ZB function called Joinable Groups, which we haven't really used. There's a testing one at the moment that I made to see if belonging to one makes any visible difference in your account; if you go up to Preferences and then to Profile Options, you'll see a new option that says "Joinable Groups". The one called "Testing Group" is the one that I've made (and joined with Glede), but once again, I don't think it causes any difference in what your profile or account look like at first glance. Nonetheless, it might be useful for something adjacent to this conversation (factions, etc.).
    Edited by Glede, Feb 7 2018, 02:26 PM.
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    Thus conscience does make cowards of us all/ And thus the native hue of resolution/ Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought.

    As for mission rewards, I also think a point system wouldn't work well here. Mission hosters could offer an item reward, or maybe a monetary sum. Most people won't ask for help without offering something in return; leaving missions without immediate IC rewards feels wrong and limiting.

    I think it could work! There could be both an OOC and IC reward system; OOC, the participants could get points, and IC, they could get whatever is appropriate to the thread.

    Perhaps DM sponsored threads could have special rewards. For example: a special magic spell, a special sword, etc. It may have unique characteristics that may not be possible at the current level. For example, maybe a Basic-level character could get a sword with Intermediate-level abilities. It would be within a reward system that already exists (the Abilities System), but just a lil spin of that.

    Can we, and are we willing to, think of this in terms of groups?

    As it is, we have member groups like Citizen and Sovereign, and then (OOC) Moderator and Admin. I've seen plenty of sites use member groups to denote rank/notoriety -- commoners, criminals, nobles, etc. all having different colors/badges. Nationality and faction potentially make this problematic, but it seems that what we're looking for here is more general (numbers are more general anyway) and easily visible/accessible.

    The idea of groups are interesting, but I think it’s too limiting as far as like A) it doesn’t describe how well-known someone is (someone can be a petty criminal or a big time criminal known thru Soare; how do you convey that?), and B ) we can’t possibly account for or predict all the reputation variations. Unless we want to lump people into castes or occupations, which isn’t fun. I’ve been on some sites that make you pick occupations from an approved list and… bleh. Noooo.

    Plus, how is it different from the “Social Standing” section in the mini-profile/character apps? It’s already built in, and people can get as specific as they want in there without the necessity of a button.

    Maybe we can have buttons denoting how well known someone is; an easy color-coded system in the mini-profile that corresponds to a number cap per country. And maybe it can follow the same format as Abilities (where it takes fewer posts to get basic abilities, but way more posts between advanced ones). So like:

    Grey = 0 reputation
    ??? = 50 rep
    ??? = 100 rep
    ??? = 200 rep
    ??? = 300 rep

    Or maybe it can be text buttons like:

    Unknown = 0 rep

    Local Legend = 100

    Country-Wide Legend = 300

    And these buttons would link to their reputation page. There ppl can get more in-depth and post the more abstract number stuff.

    …But tbh, I think numbers are important simply because they can give an objective count of how well known someone is (nothin’ else), what it means in the system, and allows staff to dispense rewards in a way that makes sense. It’s easy to see a 300/300 and be like, ok, this character is really well-known! And easy for a staffer to give 10 points to someone who completes a mission thread.

    I think it could also create some completionist incentive. Maybe someone wants to hit the 300 cap for a sparkly button OOCly and to be well-known through Soto ICly. It gives them an exact goal, and if we divvy up the points per city (Madrid = 50, Reine = 50, etc), it would force players to RP in different places in order to give their character notoriety.

    It makes IC sense too. Because why the heck would the common dude in Hoehemi know about a politician in Madrid, unless they were a bigshot legend like Aniketos? (And even then, the things they hear about him would be telephone hearsay/legends). If someone wanted to be known to the layman in Soto, they’d have to travel across the country and make impacts everywhere.

    Plus, just from a practical OOC standpoint… people tend to cluster in one area of the map, and I think giving incentive to branch out to the more neglected parts of Elly would be good.

    We could further incentivize by creating DM-led events/mission that give points and items in neglected places. Like for instance:

    Mission Location: Daro
    Description: It is said that there’s the remnants of a water dragon in Daro. Her scales are supposed to cure any disease, and an ailing Lord in Morrim is giving vast sums of money to whoever retrieves it.
    Loot: 30 reputation points, 1 Healing Scale

    And then a description of the additional reward:

    Healing Scale
    Level: High Intermediate
    Description: A shimmering, blue-grey scale that can heal broken bones immediately.

    …. or something.

    EDIT: And perhaps for these DM-led events and items, there could be specific buttons or graphics regarding the item given that can then appear in the mini-profile of the person who won it. Basically give people bling, yo.

    These items could act a bit outside the abilities system; for example, if someone doesn't have an ability slot open, they can still get the Scale and use it ICly, because it would exist outside of the system as as special item/reward. And perhaps these items could be tradable from player to player. If a member trades, they'd just have to alert the staff and the staff can change their icons in the profile accordingly.

    To prevent abuse/hoarding, these DM-sponsored item give aways would either have to be few and far between, or we could bar a character from participating in the next one if they've already won an award. Blablabla.
    Edited by Phaedrus, Feb 7 2018, 03:44 PM.
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