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WHO is Cloud looking for in KH?; His light? His darkness? Tifa?
Topic Started: Jun 16 2012, 03:44 PM (3,281 Views)
Rena
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I just realized something!

Who is Cloud searching for in KH since 2002??

As far as I remember, since the game came out, everyone’s been talking about “His light” Who is Cloud’s light?? Back in the days, there were thousands of essays either Pro-Clerith and others denying Aerith’s appearance and favoring Tifa and all of them talked about this "Light".

Then KHII comes out and people are still talking about Cloud's Light.

So when this entire thing about Cloud looking for Sephiroth came up? Yeah, KH:FM, however:

"In fact, back when we were working on KH:FM, some of the staff members wanted to have Tifa show up. They said 'Battling with Tifa would be fun, in a melee sense' and originally wanted to add both Sephiroth and Tifa (into KH:FM) but due to tight schedules we could only go with one character so we inserted Sephiroth into KH:FM. Because of that, we decided to let Tifa show up in this game [Kingdom Hearts 2]."

Was Sephiroth really intended to be in KH since the very beginning?

However, this is not my true point.

My point is that everyone’s been talking about Cloud's Light since 2002, I remember it clearly, so I think Cloud’s dialogue in the original game got through and everyone (Cloti, Cleriths and neutrals) got the same message since the very beginning. Cloud was indeed searching for his Light.

Nobody ever thought different about it until KH:FM came out and that’s because Sephiroth was in there. However, up to the day, people are still talking about Cloud’s light and if in fact, he wasn’t looking for his light in KH as most people claim because according to them he was looking for Sephiroth then why are they so defensive when it comes to it? Why do Clotis have essays trying to make Tifa into Cloud’s light?? Why are people Still talking about Cloud’s light? Why is his light so important if he wasn’t even looking for it?

I don’t know if I’m being clear about this but what I’m trying to say is that either Cleriths, Clotis, Zeriths, Clacks, Zafas or whatever got the same message since the very beginning.

Who was Cloud looking for?? His light.
Not Sephiroth or his darkness or whatever, despite KH:FM, the message got through since KH1. Never underestimate the lenghts of the subconscious. :lol:
Edited by Rena, Jun 16 2012, 03:54 PM.
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
Actually, those are some good questions, Rena. It's been ages since I played KH, but I'll give it a try.

As I remember, the whole focus of KH was "finding one's light". During the game, different characters were reunited with their lights, like Jasmine/Aladdin, Beast/Beauty, Tarzan/Jane, Kairi/Sora, etc. There were a bunch of romantic lights like that, but there were also "lights" based on deep and dear friendships, such as Pinocchio and Geppetto.

Because of that, it seemed like Cloud was being reunited with his light Aerith at the end of KH. Nomura also made a comment about that scene at the end showing their relationship in FFVII:

Nomura: Yes, she died in Final Fantasy VII, but there's no real relation to where she was at or what role she played in FFVII. There's no relationship from FFVII to the Kingdom Hearts stories. I consider them separate stories. But if you play Kingdom Hearts, toward the end, some of the questions about the relationship between Cloud and Aeris in FFVII might be answered. It's sort of like a side story, and this was an extra bonus that I wanted to give to players. ~ Nomura, U.S. Playstation Magazine, October 2002, page 139-140

Now, of course, Cloti's didn't like the idea of Aerith being Cloud's light in KH - so they started arguing that IF Aerith was indeed Cloud's light, then it was a "light" based on friendship instead of romance, like Pinocchio and Geppetto.

THEN KH:FM came out and Cloud was apparently looking for Sephiroth. Once again, theories got changed. Now, people started saying that Cloud must be searching for Sephiroth in KH instead of Aerith, since he was searching for Sephiroth in KH:FM.

After that, KH2 came out, and Tifa was in it. Nomura made a comment about Tifa being in KH2 that made people jump to the conclusion that Tifa must be Cloud's light:

Nomura: "For example, in the sense of 'if Sephiroth is darkness to Cloud, then the light is Tifa', people might take it as Tifa being a kind of being, not like a regular human being." (sorry, not sure of the source for that)

In the first place, notice that there are quotes around Nomura's words when he says, "if Sephiroth is darkness to Cloud, then the light is Tifa". In that sense, it looks to me like Nojima is drawing an example or paradigm - he's saying you could think of it that way, not that you have to think of it that way. He's saying that's one possible way of looking at it.

In the second place, Nomura hints that Tifa isn't really a human being in KH2 when he says that she's not a "regular human being". So what is that supposed to mean?

Also, if you go on to look at other quotes from the game as well as from the creators, it looks very different:

Tifa: I will give you my light/I will give my light to you.
Sephiroth: The light doesn't suit you.
Cloud: For me…I don’t know.

- Kingdom Hearts II

Sephiroth clearly says that the light doesn't suit Cloud. Now, does Sephiroth mean that ANY light doesn't suit Cloud, or TIFA'S light doesn't suit Cloud? You have to wonder when Cloud hides his eyes when Tifa's light shines:

Posted Image

It's almost like Tifa's light is blinding Cloud, so that's another indication that Tifa's light doesn't suit Cloud. For another thing, Nojima says this:

Nojima: "So Cloud's really running from something but goes around pretending, saying that he's chasing Sephiroth." - Interview

Nojima says that Cloud is running away from something during KH2, and that he's only pretending to chase Sephiroth as an excuse to run away from something else. It seems to me that he's constantly avoiding Tifa in KH2, so it's like he's running away from her. She's looking for him all over the place - underneath pictures on the wall and the whole bit. So is it Tifa that Cloud's running away from?

That's basically what I know. Maybe someone better versed in KH will have some more answers for you. ^_^

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Materia Thief
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yet again, today I loved you
I think the entire reason that everyone thinks Cloud is searching for his light in KH is the exchange between Cloud and Sora:

Quote:
 
Sora: So why did you go along with him, anyway?
Cloud: I’m looking for someone. Hades promised to help. I tried to exploit the power of darkness, but it backfired. (stands up) I fell into darkness, and couldn’t find the light.
Sora: You’ll find it. I’m searching, too.
Cloud: For your light? Don’t lose sight of it.


I wouldn't call "finding one's light" a theme of KH, exactly, although KH is definitely structured around the importance of relationships (romantic, familial, and friendship alike). Just from this conversation alone, however, we can tell two things:

1. Cloud is searching for someone.
2. Cloud has lost 'his light'.

Now when Sora talks about 'searching' we know that he's talking about searching for his lost friends Kairi and Riku (Riku being a very dear best friend and Kairi being the implied love interest).

Honestly the problem is what comes in FM.

Quote:
 
Cloud
So we meet at last.

Sephiroth
I was searching for you too.

Cloud
As long as you exist,
I can't wake from this nightmare.
You are my darkness.

Sephiroth (gesturing widely)
If that's so, I shall draw you into the darkness.

Into the nightmare that forever deprives you of light,
from which you can never awaken.


People like to separate my earlier two points and say that Cloud was searching for Sephiroth all along to make his reunion with Aerith seem like a moot point. However, I think they ignore two huge possibilities. One, Sephiroth likes to mess with people's heads, ESPECIALLY Cloud. We can't say that he's actually telling the truth about Cloud's intentions and that he was 'searching' for him. Cloud also very clearly states that Sephiroth is his darkness (setting up precedent for a PERSON to be Cloud's light) and that he is a person that 'forever deprives you of light' (kinda funny once you think that Sephiroth almost did that in VII by killing Aerith, but clearly didn't know that by killing her he only made her stronger :lol: ).

Two, even if Cloud WAS searching for Sephiroth, it's clearly because Cloud believes he 'can't wake from this nightmare' until he defeats Sephiroth--similar to Riku, he must deal with his dark side before he can ever be reunited with the/his light. Cloud finding his light and the person he was searching for don't necessarily have to be the same thing.
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
Cloud So we meet at last.

Sephiroth I was searching for you too.


That's the dialogue I was trying to think of from KH:FM. That dialogue gave many people the impression that Cloud's searching for Sephy in KH:FM, so they assume Cloud must be searching for Sephy in KH1, too.

Which makes sense - however, does it mean that Cloud was NOT searching for Aerith in KH1? All of the heroes have to fight a darkness/boss before being reunited with their light in KH1. So why wouldn't the same be true for Cloud?

Besides, Nomura plainly said that the ending of KH1 where Cloud gets reunited with Aerith might answer questions about their relationship in FFVII. (Notice he said "might" - not definitely. SE typically does that to us! :P ) So that's the important thing, I think. If it can answer questions about Cloud's relationship with Aerith in FFVII, and if Cloud is "finding his light" when he finds Aerith like Aladdin finds Jasmine, Beast finds Beauty, etc., then it says to me that Aerith is Cloud's love interest in FFVII.

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Anti-R
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the girl who becomes a prince
There's a bit of a problem with that.

In the original Japanese version, Sephiroth wasn't there. He appeared for the US release as an optional boss, and THEN in the Final Mix, additional conversations were added to include him.

But even when Aerith said that Cloud was looking for Sephiroth, we can't overlook Cloud and Sora's conversation in the vanilla game (it was never re-written nor removed to accommodate that info). The absurdity with the implication that Sephiroth = Cloud's light (really?), is the reason why I wave away that theory.

Then we had KH2... which is a repeat of the Final Mix version (Cloud and Sephiroth meet, fight, and disappeared in the air. Complete with Tifa, as she was supposed to be in the Final Mix but Nomura decided not to).

And then we have Sora. There are a LOT of hints that Kairi is his light (Namine tells Sora she is the light in his heart that will shed the real memories she wrote over in CoM).

So is Aerith his light? I don't know. They do meet up again in KH1, and KH2 Cloud was decent enough to tell her he's leaving, and Aerith gave her support that its something he needs to do by himself (as well as she has her own responsibilities at home). But it seems Aerith never considered herself Cloud's light, just someone he'll return to when he finds it.

Is Tifa Cloud's light? I don't know either. Nomura hinted she may not be real, and she blinds Cloud when they're together, but it's odd she never disappeared with Cloud and Sephiroth afterwards. Tifa was left behind, and continued her searching anew. We never even see what happens to her in the KH ending.

But I have to say if I have to choose between KH!Tifa and AC!Tifa, I'm with the KH version. Sure she's a stalker and thinks Cloud hides under a desk, but at least she wants to help him and a lot pro active (I remember my headdesk when MARLENE was the one who has to drag Tifa to the church to talk to Cloud).
Edited by Anti-R, Jun 19 2012, 02:18 AM.
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Angelalex242
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Keeper of the Intimacy of Aerith's soul living in Cloud
Well, there's also this:

Hades is...Lord of the DEAD. No logical person would ask the god of the underworld for help finding a LIVING person.

Now. My working theory is that Cloud sold his soul to Hades in trade for him resurrecting Aerith. There is precedent for that in greek myth. Orpheus and Euridyce comes to mind. There's other greek stories where the gods accept such trades.
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Ultimavara
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Come away, oh human child, to the waters and the wild.
That's how I always interpreted it, too, Alex. I always thought it was obvious Cloud was working to bring back a loved one, since, like you said, that happens several times in Greek myths. Even in the Disney Hercules movie, Megara sold her soul to Hades in order to bring back the man she loved.

Even though we see Aerith alive at the end of KH, there was no way for Cloud to know that she hadn't died. Plus, I always felt that it paralleled what happened in the original game. In both instances, she was taken away from him somehow.

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Prince Roxas
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Just a Nobody
Aerith never died in Kingdom Hearts though. Its a different universe with no connection to the Final Fantasy games. I always took it that Cloud was working for Hades because he wanted to find a loved one again, he didn't know if Aerith was alive or not so he was looking for her since they got separated. I got that feeling that it was referring to the original game like that with her being taken away from him and in Kingdom Hearts he was working for the Lord of the Underworld in order to find his light.

Anti-R
 
In the original Japanese version, Sephiroth wasn't there. He appeared for the US release as an optional boss, and THEN in the Final Mix, additional conversations were added to include him.

Sephiroth was originally meant to be included in the original version though but he didn't appear because of time restraints to get the game ready for release. So they did intend for Sephiroth to be include but because of the game's release date they couldn't so those conversations might of originally been planned.
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bolina
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in the credits of KH1 where cloud and aerith are reunited, it was like cloud found what he was looking for. i thought it was made pretty obvious that aerith was his light. but then in KH2, he's still looking for his light - and it was tifa's. or, at least i think so.. since she offered her light.

it confuses me. maybe cloud had to find his inner light, after all.
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Jon Snow
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khaleesi ♥
Angelalex242
Jun 22 2012, 09:17 AM
Well, there's also this:

Hades is...Lord of the DEAD. No logical person would ask the god of the underworld for help finding a LIVING person.

Now. My working theory is that Cloud sold his soul to Hades in trade for him resurrecting Aerith. There is precedent for that in greek myth. Orpheus and Euridyce comes to mind. There's other greek stories where the gods accept such trades.

Yeah, I've always felt the same way. Only, instead of bringing her to life, Cloud was working Hades so he could find Aerith, since he and her had been separated for years & years.

That's why Cloud was working with Hades... so he could find the person he was "missing" from, as stated in an interview. If Cloud was "missing" from the rest (Aerith) doesn't it make sense that he was wanting to find the person he was "missing" from? This is why I believe Cloud truly was looking for Aerith.
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aerithbunny
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No one imo

Cloud is looking for his inner light, his inner strength. I suppose that strength comes from his friends Tifa and Aerith both, or his battle with Sephiroth. He is fighting against his own inner problems in KH, and people are trying to help him, but he'd not looking for anyone I think ><
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Lute
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That can't be true, since Cloud specifically stated that he's looking for someone and Hades promised to help. In KH2, however, I do think he was searching for his own inner light again. ^_^ KH1 had a lot of reunions between people, KH2 seemed more about personal strength.
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Shiva
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I think that there is a big difference between your own inner light and finding that "someone" who is your light. Like Kairi is Sora's light, Aerith is Cloud's light. She is his "light", "the light of the heart" in which Cloud was searching for. I think that was obvious when they were reunited at the end along with Beast and his light, Belle; Aladdin and his light, Jasmine, etc....

What Cloud is searching for in KH2 is his own inner light, something he seemed to be able to find only by 1) being reunited with the light of his heart, and 2) seeking out his "darkness" to destroy him (Sephiroth). Not really sure what role Tifa played in all this, but it is possible that she is a physical representation of light, a friend who appeared to help Cloud find his own light.
Edited by Shiva, Jul 21 2012, 02:02 AM.
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Black_Mage_Lulu
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Just throwing this out there, but Cloud's 'Light' could be the person HE was before he fell to darkness.
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Lute
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Shiva
Jul 21 2012, 02:01 AM
I think that there is a big difference between your own inner light and finding that "someone" who is your light. Like Kairi is Sora's light, Aerith is Cloud's light. She is his "light", "the light of the heart" in which Cloud was searching for. I think that was obvious when they were reunited at the end along with Beast and his light, Belle; Aladdin and his light, Jasmine, etc....

What Cloud is searching for in KH2 is his own inner light, something he seemed to be able to find only by 1) being reunited with the light of his heart, and 2) seeking out his "darkness" to destroy him (Sephiroth). Not really sure what role Tifa played in all this, but it is possible that she is a physical representation of light, a friend who appeared to help Cloud find his own light.
This is exactly how I see it. ^_^ People seem to forget the entire context of the games, which makes it clear that:
In KH1 various people were searching for their significant others/outside sources of light (as you mentioned, the reunions in the credits are painfully obvious). Cloud says he is looking for someone, which I always thought clearly precludes the idea that he's looking for some part of himself. The arc of reunions with your source of "light" was pretty much covered here.
In KH2, there is plenty of soul-searching done by individuals and Cloud is no exception. It makes utterly no sense given the greater context of the series that he's searching for an outside source of light when everyone got that (essentially, Sora had some loose ends but he's the main character, come on) done in KH1. If you parallel this with everyone else - such the whole Nobody plot (which has PLENTY to do with finding yourself, oh man) - I always thought it was clear that Cloud had to find his inner light/strength again. And the whole conversation with Aerith? It's about Cloud's personal light, come on.
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