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| Aerith's Cloud's Mother?; Blah. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 23 2011, 07:35 AM (1,857 Views) | |
| myfinalfantasy | Jul 23 2011, 07:35 AM Post #1 |
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Je t'aime
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"Aerith guides Cloud in Advent Children in a motherly way. She gives him advice and helps him in his consciousness like a real Mother would. I mean come on he calls Aerith his mother!!! Tifa on the other hand was there for support like a lover would. I dont get how Cleriths claim that Aerith and Cloud were in love when they had a maternal bond which was confirmed by Nomura xD" ~ some CloTi fan. Well then. I don't even know where to start with this one. ****************** "Cloud gazed at Tifa like a kid who just had his secrets revealed." ~ Case of Tifa ****************** "Cloud went on about how he got paid a little for delivering items. He explained to her how he felt guilty spending it all on the modifications for the bike. Tifa thought he was just like a kid. It may have been a little sad that Cloud had found another world that I didn’t know about but, the fact that his world was expanding was a welcoming thought. Yes, it was similar to the feelings a mother would have. Tifa walked Cloud outside, enjoying the new feeling that was welling up inside her." ~ Case of Tifa ****************** I think if anyone has a maternal bond going on, it's between Cloud and Tifa. The quotes from CoT also reveal the true nature of Tifa and her thoughts on Cloud. Not anywhere does it say that "Tifa looked dreamily upon Cloud, enjoying the new feeling that was welling up inside her" or anything else that runs along the lines of romance. If anything, CoT was trying to be literate with the fact that they were a "family". Tifa the mother, Barrett the father, and Cloud, Marlene, and Denzel the little kids. ****************** "Aerith guides Cloud in a motherly way." a.) Aerith does have a motherly factor to her, but it doesn't mean she actually is and acts like Cloud's mother. How in the world does Aerith's "flirty" nature come across being motherly? Cloud: I think I want to be forgiven... m-more than anything. Aerith: By who? (She says this in a playful way) Also, Aerith doesn't talk much in AC/ACC. But even so, just Cloud being able to be in her presence seems to take a lot of weight off of Cloud's shoulders. When he's around Aerith, it's obvious he's relaxed. Comfortable. b.) Aerith's guidance was searched for by Cloud. Now I'm not saying that if Cloud never looked for it Aerith would never have came to him in his subconscious, but Cloud was still depressed and miserable without her. But honestly, I don't see how people could claim that Aerith was Cloud's mother. Her quotes such as: "Dillydally-shillyshally! ....isn't it time you did the forgiving?" ~ Aerith Gainsborough, Advent Children "I never blamed you -- not once. You came for me, and that's all that matters" ~ Aerith Gainsborough, Advent Children How, if I may ask this again, would this be considered as motherly? If anything, I find the last quote to be romantic. And I just love how Aerith makes the first line so serious yet so playful at the same time. It just shows how she is able to bring out the good in things, you know? Like she is able to bring out the good in Cloud. "She gives him advice and helps him in his consciousness like a real Mother would." a.) Wouldn't that be considered to be more of a friend? If a guy gave me advice and helped me I certainly would not consider him to be my father. If anything, it just shows how faithful and kind Aerith is. You can interpret that as something a "friend" would do or whatever, but that to me should not even be considered to be motherly. b.) When Cloud called Aerith his mother, he was unconscious. He wasn't even aware of where he was or how he got there. Kadaj also called Aerith his mother, but people don't flame Kadaj. Zack also called Aerith his mother, but once again we don't see people bashing them. I mean, even Aerith was surprised that so many people had called her "mother". "Again? Why has everyone been calling me their mother lately?" ~ Aerith Gainsborough, Advent Children "Tifa on the other hand was there for support like a lover would." a.) BAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh my goodness! Wow! I honestly wish that thread wasn't closed, because I would've told this person up! If anything, that quote should say, "Tifa, on the other hand, was there for support like a real friend would." I think that they saying that she was like a lover to Cloud in AC/ACC is like saying Sephiroth was a big brother to Cloud. Tifa yells at Cloud - with good intentions - but it gets tiring. It really reminds me of how parents yell at their own children. With good intentions, but with horrible cycles.b.) Yes. I partially agree with a CloTi. "She was there for support." Remember, it was confirmed that Tifa was added later to the story as a side-character as well as the others. For support. That doesn't mean she is automatically to be considered as Cloud's lover. Yuffie was also there for support in AC/ACC watching it all go down with Tifa yet I don't think of her as a lover. O___o "I dont get how Cleriths claim that Aerith and Cloud were in love when they had a maternal bond which was confirmed by Nomura xD ^^^ I'm sorry that I don't read up on the Ultimanias and stuff like this, but was it true that Cloud and Aerith's bond was maternal? Did it say anything about this? Even though I highly doubt it, I just want to make sure. ![]() A N Y W A Y S , those are my thoughts about Aerith not being Cloud's mother. It is just another excuse for CloTis to support their preferred couple. It just doesn't make sense. (Sorry if there's already a topic about this!) |
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| Anastar | Jul 23 2011, 12:16 PM Post #2 |
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
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First of all, I agree with everything you said. Nicely written!However, there's even more to support the idea that it's Tifa who has a maternal bond with Cloud instead of Aerith. In the first place, the Cloti got Nomura's quote wrong. Nomura actually confirmed that it was Tifa who had a maternal bond with Cloud, not Aerith: "Tifa was a very difficult character to create. Like Aerith, she has a maternal side to her, but in a different sense. Not only was she looking after Marlene and Denzel, but she also felt a certain maternal bond to Cloud, who is a 'big kid' himself in some respects. Yet despite this, she continues working as the manager of Seventh Heaven without a complaint." ~Nomura; Reunion Files In the second place, you missed a couple of quotes from Case of Tifa where Cloud is described as a child, and Tifa describes her maternal feelings for him: [During a conversation with Tifa] ... Cloud made a familiar face, like a child who knew a scolding was inevitable... Cloud gazed at Tifa with the expression of a child whose worst secret had just been let out of the bag... ...He's like a child, Tifa thought. While it made her sad that Cloud could see another world she knew nothing about, the idea his world was expanding at all was a welcome one. Yes... Maybe this is kind of what a mother feels like. Once she saw Cloud off, Tifa was alone with the new emotions growing inside her and was happy. ~Case of Tifa Now, Aerith is also described as a mother in her profile in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania, but not specifically in relation to Cloud: In Advent Children Showing up in front of people feeling pained and confused, Her figure seems like a loving mother. Age: N/A Two years after returning to the planet, Aerith still lives on in the hearts of her friends who saved the planet. And in particular to Cloud, as a symbol of his failure to having being unable protect those dear to him, she was a major factor in causing him to close himself off. For Cloud, and the world once again faced with danger, she reaches out and offers her aid. In that sense she is like a mother watching over the entire planet, and it gives the feeling that she lives in every part of the world. Source: http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii...profile-p48-51/ If I remember correctly, that's the only place where Aerith is referred to as a mother in the literature for Advent Children by SE, and it's specifically said that she's like a mother in the sense that she offers her aid to Cloud - but it's also said that she's like a mother watching over the entire Planet. It's been awhile since I watched it, too, but I seem to remember that Cloud has his eyes shut when he says, "Mother..." to Aerith in AC/ACC. You have to remember that Cloud is on the brink of death, so he's sorta out of it at the moment. If anything, he may have thought that he was being reunited with his dead mother. Once again, if Cloud's eyes are shut, then all he's aware of is that he's with the spirit of someone who he is very close to and someone who loves him. On the other hand, it's specifically said in Tifa's case that she feels a maternal bond with Cloud, both by Nomura and in Case of Tifa. So if anyone's been called a mother to Cloud, it's Tifa. ![]() I've written more about this topic on my website, too... such as in this essay: Tifa - Mother or Sweetheart? |
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| Beatrix | Jul 24 2011, 06:01 PM Post #3 |
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Advanced Member
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Frankly... this is ridiculous. I understand why people might first think Aerith is a mother figure (the way she watched over Cloud and Tifa in the lifestream was kinda motherly... and the "Mother?" in the movie can confuse you I guess). But to Cloud personnally ? NO ! Kadaj and ZACK (you know, her first love... :rolleyes: and true unending love according to Cloti fans) also called her mother. What does this mean ? This just means that Aerith's motherly NATURE made all of those guys think of their mother. But she was never a real mother for them... or should we call Zack on his Oedipus complex now ? Aerith is a mother figure in the sense that she represents the Planet, nature, life... and mothers are the ones to give life. Her name was composed of "I Earth" and she watches over the Planet as a spirit. Her origins and role made her that way, end of story. By the way, if I remember correctly, she also had a "motherly" behavior towards Barrett when he was down/angry at the Gold Saucer (the whole "Well, that's just too bad !"... and I think she told Tifa to let him sulk too). Frankly, this is just the way she is and sometimes acts. She's a protector, unconscious and confused guys around her will just think of the person who made them feel safe the most... and this is often the mother that comes to mind. Tifa is different. She has a DIRECT motherly bond with a little girl and other children later in the story. And the way it is described in Case of Tifa, those are totally motherly feelings she had for Cloud. She's probably like that because she wants love badly (not unlike Terra Brandford) and was traumatized by her own mother's death. It is not said however that Cloud feels that he has a mother/son bond with Tifa... but Tifa sure made him react as if he did. Really, Cloti fans... this is NOT a valid argument at all. If you think it is, then you just destroyed your convenient Zack/Aerith pairing in the process. Congratulation for the epic fail.
In more or less Zack's words : - "Maybe that's because everyone adores you." |
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| Rukia | Jul 24 2011, 09:54 PM Post #4 |
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Member
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Hmm, its interesting. I never would have called Aerith a mother figure to Cloud, thats a little weird. She is flirtatious with him, and he doesn't seem to mind. Tifa is different. I could see a motherly bond, not in the game but in AC and Case of Tifa, definitely yeah. Tifa reminds me a lot of Quistis. Quistis had a misunderstood love for Squall, and in the end she realized it was more like a protective sister. |
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| Shiva | Jul 25 2011, 04:02 PM Post #5 |
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Legendary Member
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"Tifa was a very difficult character to create. Like Aerith, she has a maternal side to her, but in a different sense. Not only was she looking after Marlene and Denzel, but she also felt a certain maternal bond to Cloud, who is a 'big kid' himself in some respects. Yet despite this, she continues working as the manager of Seventh Heaven without a complaint." (Nomura, Reunion Files, Tifa's profile) So, Nomura states that both Tifa and Aerith have maternal sides to them, but that Tifa's maternal side is different. He then applies Tifa's maternal side directly to Cloud and states right there that Tifa has a maternal bond with Cloud. Aerith's maternal side was described as being different than that of Tifa's, whose maternal side relates to Marlene, Denzel, and Cloud. So, how exactly is Aerith like a mother to Cloud when it has already been confirmed that Tifa is the one who is like a mother to Cloud and that Aerith's maternal side isn't like Tifa's? |
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| Anastar | Jul 25 2011, 06:39 PM Post #6 |
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
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Exactly, Shiva. The Cloti who quoted Nomura got the quote all wrong. Nomura was actually confirming the maternal bond that Tifa has with Cloud, not Aerith. @myfinalfantasy- you mentioned that you don't know the Ultimania's well, but it'd be good if you looked into them. since Cloti's often use the Ultimania's in debates. This one had the quote all wrong, but that doesn't always happen. I've seen Cloti's claim that an Ultimania quote means something that it doesn't mean, or leave part of the quote out, or things like that. Of course, some Cloti's use the quotes accurately, too, but mistakes do get made. The more you know about the quotes, the better. You'll find a list of quotes from the Ultimania's that support Clerith here:http://clerith.heliohost.org/ClerithUltimaniaFAQ.htm And a discussion of quotes used by Cloti's here: http://clerith.heliohost.org/Ultimania%20FAQ.htm Quexinos also had a site with all Ultimania quotes about Clerith and Cloti, but that site's no longer available. I think she said something about moving it to a different location, though, so it'll probably be back up soon. ![]() |
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| Chibica | Jul 25 2011, 06:59 PM Post #7 |
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Suburbia
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I quote cuz I like how you state points beautifully. <33 Like Aly and Shiva said, Aerith's maternal side is for people in suffered and the Planet. I don't remember how many times I heard Cloti sayings like "xxx is confirmed by Nomura." Nomura is, for god sake, the one of all main creators who mentioned the least about Cloud's emotions. We have Nojima saying how difficult it'd be to have remake scene about Cloud in Forgotten City (CC!ULtimania); we have Kitase telling us Aerith's death scene shows how death strikes ppl with a great "sense of loss." (Anni-Ultimania) But Nomura rarely talked about Cloud's feelings toward Aerith, or other female characters. That's why his explanaiton about Aerith's being in Cloud's consciousness in AC kinda surprised me back then. As for Cloud's to Tifa...maybe I forgot, but I only remember the creators laughed away things about "HW=risque." I'm not sure. My FF7 memory gets worse recently. ;__; As for Cloud calling Aeirth "mother" in AC, I have a wierd thought... I merely take that as Cloud's surmise. He just witnessed Kadaj's vanishing in the air, and he saw Kadaj expressing released/saved feelings to whoever Kadaj called "Mother." IMO, when Cloud was shot and his consciousness flew into lifestream, he still can slightly "sensed" the healing force on his forehead. He knew it's Aerith who cured Geostigma, but before he regained his consciousness, he might not know it's Aerith who saved him again after that fight. He thought it's "Mother" he'd meet right after his death, which he assumed what'd happen to him after that explosion. Therefore, following what he saw in Kadaj's scene, it's understandable for him to wonder it's "Mother," without knowing who this "Mother" truely is. What's more, I don't think Cloud's murmuring "Mother..?" means he has some mother issue. There's no longing feelings when he said that. He thought he's dead, and he guessed he's gonna vanish like Kadaj, by the call of "Mother", that's all. Just my 2 cents. :E *runs* |
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| Jon Snow | Jul 28 2011, 05:49 PM Post #8 |
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khaleesi ♥
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/thread No seriously though... this whole Aerith is Cloud's mother BS they toss at us... it's baseless... it has about as much foundation/truth to it as saying Cloud's hair is naturally red does. <_< Saying Aerith is motherly doesn't automatically relate it to Cloud. Saying she's like a mother to the planet doesn't mean she's the mother figure to all characters. Sorry, I just don't buy it. In a sense, she is like a mother for watching over the planet. But it's her duty to do so. If that quote means she's a mother to Cloud... then that means she's a mother to everyone on the planet... which would mean she was a mother figure to Zack--the man who she dated. I don't even want to begin talking about how CREEPY and WRONG that is. That quote isn't supposed to be taken so literally. Yes, she's motherly. Yes, her motherly side peeks through when she aids the planet and helps the people. Does that mean she's Cloud's mother? Err, no. Can I please see a quote that says she enjoys harboring motherly feelings towards Cloud? Can I please be given the quote where it says Aerith has a motherly bond to Cloud while linking that with other children whom Aerith does in fact care for in a motherly way? Beatrix, you said it perfectly.
Aerith is motherly in the sense that she watches over the planet, offers a chance of life, hope and comfort. In THAT sense she is motherly. Tifa, however, she is literally a mother figure to Denzel and Marlene. In the quote provided by Aly and shiva, it clearly states that "not only was she looking after marlene and denzel" (by looking after they mean acting as their mother) "BUT she also felt a certain maternal bond to Cloud," (question! why associate Cloud's name with Marlene and Denzel if her motherly bond to Cloud was supposed to be different???) There's no doubt about what relationship Tifa has with Marlene and Denzel--she takes the place as their mother. So... why, in the same freaking sentence no less, would SE say that Tifa's maternal side is different from Aerith's, that not only was Tifa a mother to Marlene and Denzel but that she also felt a certain maternal bond to Cloud as well, and then directly link Cloud to being like a "big kid" himself? Why would SE do that? And then let's not forget that lovely little quote of Tifa enjoying feeling like a mother to Cloud. Ew. also, that whole sweet moment where Tifa says Cloud is like a child in CoT... what?... and she still wants to be with him romantically? Gross. People. It's called CONNECT THE DOTS. Do it! ![]() If either woman is supposed to be Cloud's motherly figure--that award would have to go to Tifa. (good post everyone, I enjoyed reading them a lot :P) |
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Tifa yells at Cloud - with good intentions - but it gets tiring. It really reminds me of how parents yell at their own children. With good intentions, but with horrible cycles.



Nicely written!
Frankly... this is ridiculous. I understand why people might first think Aerith is a mother figure (the way she watched over Cloud and Tifa in the lifestream was kinda motherly... and the "Mother?" in the movie can confuse you I guess).

8:17 AM Jul 11