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Tifa A Sexist Character
Topic Started: Jul 7 2011, 08:26 PM (2,672 Views)
Angelalex242
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Keeper of the Intimacy of Aerith's soul living in Cloud
Clothes don't make the woman. As has been pointed out, nearly all of Square Enix's females like showing skin, with few notable exceptions.

It's the whole 'don't judge a book by it's cover' thing.

Quistis, actually, is the best point of comparison for Tifa, as both have unrequired love for the male leads.

Here's the key difference:
Quistis wakes up and smells the 'he doesn't love me.'
Tifa does not.
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Rukia
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Angelalex242
Jul 10 2011, 06:05 AM
Clothes don't make the woman. As has been pointed out, nearly all of Square Enix's females like showing skin, with few notable exceptions.



I think the difference is not in the skin showing but what they wear and their personlity. If they gave Aerith a makeover like they did for Yuna in X(2) I think many Aerith fans would be very upset. Imagine Aerith fighting in a bikini and miniskirt .... It would be silly, no?

Tifa's attitude and personality do not fit her attire. Her toned down AC loook was much more of an improvement. Rikku shows more off but she also has a stronger personality than Tifa.

Its hard to take a heroine seriously when she just looks like a marketing tool.

Quote:
 
Here's the key difference:
Quistis wakes up and smells the 'he doesn't love me.'
Tifa does not.


Yeah I wonder why Quistis isnt as popular as Tifa? Because they didn't give her huge boobs and a miniskirt ;) That's why.

Quistis liked Squall but she didn't let it ruin her happiness if he wasn't constantly around. Tifa is way too cliingy.

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Lady Lifestream
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Der Ruf des Kolibris
Quote:
 
Imagine Aerith fighting in a bikini and miniskirt .... It would be silly, no?

Dear god, please - NOOO!!! Stop SE from that xD

Quote:
 
Tifa's attitude and personality do not fit her attire.

Agreed x3
...But Yunas attitude didnīt fit her FFX-2 attire, too xD
Even if she has Rikku as her idol now, her shy and polite personality does not change. Hmmh... okay, maybe her shy personality x3

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Bellebelle3
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If I hadn't blown the whole thing years ago, we might still
Tifa may have flaws, but these flaws contribute to a more rounded and richly drawn individual.

Tifa is human. She has her concerns, her crippling shyness and restraint, but she also has her heart stopping endurance and fighting spirit. She knows her weaknesses, and works through them. This makes her more relatable, and therefore, more human. Tifa is an actual three dimensional character - as opposed to merely having her as a "strong" female, they have her as an actual person, full of fear and strength and love and weakness, which gives her depth as opposed to the typical cardboard cut out stereotypes we see in the media of "strong" scantily clad fighter women with little development or personality. To portray her as a woman of dimensions is far more empowering, to me at least.
As for her clothes...fanservice is one thing, but I actually think they are a matter of irony. A subversion of stereotypes...I mean, look at spunky and flirtatious Aerith and shy and demure Tifa! That being said, I think her attire in AC is perfect.

I actually think Tifa is an amazing character study, whether one likes her or not.
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aerithbunny
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Quote:
 
Imagine Aerith fighting in a bikini and miniskirt .... It would be silly, no?

Dear god, please - NOOO!!! Stop SE from that xD


http://oi25.tinypic.com/91gbae.jpg

you mean like this? <_<
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Vixie
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Sicker than the rest
Even in that picture she looked embarassed and was covering her modesty. :blush:

So was Garnet I notice.
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Prince Roxas
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Just a Nobody
Aerith has a swim suit rather than a two piece which pretty much the rest of the FF girls seems to be wearing. I don't think there's anything wrong with that fan art.
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aerithbunny
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Well yes it's not the best example, but could you imagine a Final Fantasy DOAXtreme game? It would be pretty awful. Aerith running around in skimpy clothing like the clothing from X-2(Thief) would be out of character, though Yuna in her Thief costume was usually hunched over and tended to cover herself more. The point is, skimpy clothes for certain characters don't work with their personalities.
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Materia Thief
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yet again, today I loved you
There seems to be some confusion on what sexism is, so I'd like to clarify:
Merriam Webster
 
1: prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women
2: behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex


Yes, it is prejudice against women, but it isn't just "being a flat character" or "being dumb, etc.". Having character flaws in general does not make Tifa a potentially sexist character, but stereotypical ones would. As well, this is not if Tifa herself is a sexist, but rather, when the creators of FFVII were designing Tifa, there was sexism involved in design choices, etc.

Personally, I do think there's some problematic design choices in the FFVII universe, but I do think FFVII also has its merits. I'm actually more bothered by the FFVII fandom. Let's get at least one thing straight though--Tifa as a character, choosing her own clothes, is allowed to choose whatever she pleases. This doesn't make her "slutty" or "a whore," just like any of us being allowed to wear a short skirt or shorts does not make us sluts. Yet, there are so many problems with the presentation of Tifa. I actually like Tifa's personality and although her presence in later games (KH2!Tifa, I'm looking at you) is problematic, she does have a distinct history and personality with her own motivations separate from Cloud's (she's not in AVALANCHE for Cloud). She does occasionally dance on that borderline of herself and her story being too dependent on Cloud, with that borderline being crossed in KH2, but in FFVII and AC she really does have her own stuff going on in her life beyond Cloud. As well, all 3 main females in-game pass the "Bechdel test", which is a good thing. The one completely and undeniably sexist thing I can point out concerning Tifa in the main storyline is the slapfight between Scarlet and Tifa. Scarlet is the head of weapons development, Tifa is a trained martial artist and all they can do is slap each other?

Yet, what's so problematic about Tifa and why is she a 'sexist character', imo? It's her graphical presentation, plain and simple. Tifa's clothes and her figure are not problematic from a character standpoint, but are problematic from a design standpoint. Even ignoring the ridiculousness of her figure (she makes Barbie look fat and flat), the animations were clearly intentionally made to appeal to the male creators and/or the (believed to be) male audience. Her victory pose is a prime example, just like Lulu's victory pose. Lulu's pose, is in fact, probably more problematic than Tifa's since Tifa's pose is potentially innocent in meaning--a simple stretch--however unlikely that is. However,the jiggling in this gif really dispels any doubt to me about the intent of the designers. Although some improvements were made for AC, Dissidia012 took both a huge step forward and a huge step back for Tifa. Dissidia was good to her in that she was her own heroine, separate from Cloud, for the most part. Dissidia was bad to her in the name of awkward physics in the name of making boobs move even while she's standing still (here for a particularly egregious example).
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Alan Bates
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That one guy
asenk631
Aug 25 2011, 10:40 PM
Well yes it's not the best example, but could you imagine a Final Fantasy DOAXtreme game? It would be pretty awful.

Probably. SQUARE really isn't very good at anything other than RPGs.

Quote:
 
Aerith running around in skimpy clothing like the clothing from X-2(Thief)  would be out of character, though Yuna in her Thief costume was usually hunched over and tended to cover herself more.  The point is, skimpy clothes for certain characters don't work with their personalities.

Aerith hanging out around in a micro-mini and mesh top would be out of character, but I see nothing wrong with having her in a swimsuit if she's going to the beach.
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Anti-R
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the girl who becomes a prince
No.

Unfortunately, she's also part of the fanservice department for pervy guys. Dissidia 012 is really blatant about this too (the jiggle physics, a moogle telling the player to zoom on her cleavage, Tifa gets a pearl necklace *I cringe, deep inside*), and I'm sure it won't be going away soon.
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Prince Roxas
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Just a Nobody
Alan Bates
Aug 26 2011, 02:26 AM
Quote:
 
Aerith running around in skimpy clothing like the clothing from X-2(Thief)  would be out of character, though Yuna in her Thief costume was usually hunched over and tended to cover herself more.  The point is, skimpy clothes for certain characters don't work with their personalities.

Aerith hanging out around in a micro-mini and mesh top would be out of character, but I see nothing wrong with having her in a swimsuit if she's going to the beach.

Yes thank you Alan taht's what I was trying to say but no words could come from my mnd. They fan art is simply them going to the beach and obviously they would have to wear swimsuits.

Anti-R
 
Unfortunately, she's also part of the fanservice department for pervy guys. Dissidia 012 is really blatant about this too (the jiggle physics, a moogle telling the player to zoom on her cleavage, Tifa gets a pearl necklace *I cringe, deep inside*), and I'm sure it won't be going away soon.

Oh god they actually do this in Dissidia? Poor Tifa.
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Rukia
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Well you still have to realize that the games were made by men, I dont think they have any women on their development team. It is marketed towards adolescent boys, and women have to be either a fighter type or wear skimpy clothing to get any attention. Aerith is popular with some men, because she is gorgeous, her face finally shown in AC proves that, and she has a lighthearted and innocent nature which many men are drawn to, that and a lot of men like feminine women. I dont think being feminine means you are sexist, in fact it is the other way around. To be popular one has to act basically like a man, but of course dress like a common prostitute <_<

Tifa does have depth, but come on! Not that much depth, this is a video game not a nobel prize for literature! :razz:

Aerith is not a sexist character, or damsel in distress type. She is strong in her own way. She gets mad at Cloud for treating her like a damsel in distress, and she even goes off to pray for holy when Sephiroth is after her because it was something she knows she has to do. That is her strength. She has the huge strength of will, which also allows her to exist after her death in the lifestream, with Sephiroth of course. In fact I think it is sexist to say that a woman can only have strenth when she acts like a man. A woman can be strong having feminine traits. She does not have to wear skimpy clothes and be a 'fighter.'

I think the girl in the videos earlier pretty much summed it up very well with the problems of objectification of women in video games and movies directed towards the adolescent male population.
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Kusari Yarou
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Materia Thief
 
Personally, I do think there's some problematic design choices in the FFVII universe, but I do think FFVII also has its merits. I'm actually more bothered by the FFVII fandom. Let's get at least one thing straight though--Tifa as a character, choosing her own clothes, is allowed to choose whatever she pleases. This doesn't make her "slutty" or "a whore," just like any of us being allowed to wear a short skirt or shorts does not make us sluts. Yet, there are so many problems with the presentation of Tifa.


YEAH. This, thanks. "Is Tifa presented in a problematic way?" Legitimate question! But hating on her (not saying anyone here did!) for being presented that way by the creators is just as problematic, imho.

EDITED: My interpretation of "sexist character" is a character who exhibits sexist/misogynistic behavior. Like Blue from Sucker Punch, or Warren from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
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Anti-R
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the girl who becomes a prince
Kuki Prower
Aug 26 2011, 10:03 AM

Anti-R
 
Unfortunately, she's also part of the fanservice department for pervy guys. Dissidia 012 is really blatant about this too (the jiggle physics, a moogle telling the player to zoom on her cleavage, Tifa gets a pearl necklace *I cringe, deep inside*), and I'm sure it won't be going away soon.

Oh god they actually do this in Dissidia? Poor Tifa.

LOL yeah. It's like SE saying "We're well aware Tifa's in a lot of hentai doujinshi so... yeah, not gonna pretend".

Again, it's just weird she'd get a bouncy chest when characters such as Ultimecia and CoD (and Esper!Terra) are also in the roster. To add discomfort, well, fight her using Onion Knight, you'd scream pedobear as it looks like she's coming on to him. XD
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