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The Wallmarket - Did Someone Notice That?; Could that really indicate Clerith?
Topic Started: May 18 2011, 03:06 PM (563 Views)
Lady Lifestream
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We all know about the meaning of Aeriths ribbon - the red ribbon of fate. In Japanese, it is believed that beloved soulmates are connected by a red invisible ribbon. To show that, red ribbons are often seen worn by girls to indicate that they are in love with their soulmate (f.E. Sailor Venus, the Senshi of Love - she always wears a red ribbon in her hair). The colour of those strings is usually red, but sometimes it can also be rosé or purple (f.E. Celes Chére). We know that Aerith wears her ribbon to indicate that her and Cloud are beloved soulmates - but now, we look at the Wallmarket scene!
Cloud wears - styled as a girl - a dark purple (maybe black, since his purple uniform changes to black later) dress with A HUGE RED RIBBON!!!
This might indicate Clerith even more, doesn´t it?
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Vixie
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I'm not trying to be rude but what are you on about? Did I miss something where it was revealed that Aerith's ribbon is "a red string of fate" that symbolizes her love for Cloud? Cloud has nothing to do with her ribbon. Looking at VII on it's own she wore the pink ribbon well before they met, in fact she was wearing ribbons as a child. Look at CC, Aerith admired the ribbon and Zack bought it for her. I'd say she wears it as tribute to him, no? Just like in AC, where everyone wears ribbons as a tribute to her.

IMO Cloud's ribbon was just to make him look cute and girly.
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Jon Snow
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I think, she's just trying to discuss how Aerith's ribbon can be an indication of the Japanese folk-love story of the ribbon of fate. Love interest of games/manga/anime usually wear the ribbon of fate when they're supposed to be the love interest.


The characters don't have to be linked to the ribbon in order for the ribbon to be tied to them, either. For example, some C/t fans say if the ribbon of fate really exists in the game it's supposed to link Zack<-->Aerith. But
a.) that was a terrible retcon, Aerith always were ribbons
b.) one of the first trailers for CC shows Aerith with her ribbon when Zack and her first meet
c.) dismantled says Aerith met Zack while selling flowers, so if SE retconed that they could very well have retconed the ribbon ordeal, too.

so bad retcon is bad. It's just her interpretation of something, and I think it's cute she brought this up. :33

(pss, Lady Lifestream, I've always felt the red ribbon of fate was represented by Aerith's ribbon too, especially when there was just VII and no newer crappy compilation and their even crappier retcons)





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Lady Lifestream
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(Aeriths ribbon always reminded me of Sailor Venus :3)

No problem^^
In Japan it is commonly known that those red ribbons girls usually wear in animes or mangas are a symbol for her love to her soulmate. This has to do with the legend about the red string of fate.
So most Japanese believe - even if not stated officially - that Aeriths (and Celes Chéres) ribbon was meant to be one of these fate ribbons, too. When thinking about Square putting always Japanese symbolism like this in their games, it comes quite clear that this can be true very likely. Aerith dresses in the colours of love, she is known to be very loving and passionate, and is the love interest of Cloud Strife. Why not give her one of those ribbons of love? Looks cute and indicates Clerith even more.
Now why has Cloud nothing to do with this ribbon? Aerith says in Dismantled that she loves Cloud and that she is now sure of it (in one of her monologues). When Cloud is her love interest, he surely has to do with this. I think you misunderstood something. Lovers are connected by a red, but still INVISIBLE string (or so they believe), and those anime girls only wear red ribbons because they INDICATE that there is an INVISIBLE red string of fate. And the reason why the boys don´t wear those ribbons is quite clear - boys do not wear ribbons. So Cloud wearing this ribbon when crossdressing seems to be a rarity.
Now you say that Zacks has bought her this ribbon I talk about - is this true?
We know that Aerith possesses 6 different ribbons by now:
*her mintgreen ribbon as a child
*her taupe ribbon as a child while living by Elmyra
*her orange-red ribbon with dangling fabric bought by Zacks
*her lightpink ribbon she wears in FFVII and AC
*her deepred ribbon she wears in KH, KH:CoM and KHII
*her Amano ribbon she wears as an alternate outfit in Dissidia Duodecim
If you want to count her white hair tie or her open hair in the manga and while being dead, there are 8 different hairstyles for her; 9 if you count her short hair in BC. She regularly chooses between six cute ribbons - why should she stop that if she enjoys wearing different ribbons and hairstyles? Weird is that Zacks ribbon is the only one of hers that has dangling fabric - no other ribbon has this! The creators wanted to make this ribbon outstanding - a new version to be remembered. And they never get it wrong - on every portrayal of her Crisis Core outfit, there are always these dangling fabrics under the serrated part. So why is her Crisis Core ribbon the only ribbon to have these fabrics - because they wanted to portray that Aerith doesn´t wear this ribbon later. In all her FFVII appearances, her ribbon remains rosé.
In all her Kingdom Hearts appearances, her ribbon remains deep red.
In all her Crisis Core appearances, her ribbon remains reddish-orange with those dangling things.
So it can´t just be a failure - it was set on purpose.
So Aerith doesn´t wear this ribbon in FFVII and AC - seems as if her ribbon doesn´t tie her to Zacks any longer.
And the party wears red ribbons because in the early skript, Aeriths name was never mentioned and it seemed that the party had just forgotten Aerith. Since they didn´t want to change the skript, these ribbons were invented so the Party would be shown remembering her without talking about her. And they made it that clear (that those ribbons are remembrances of Aerith) to prevent the Japanese thinking that now everybody was tied together by strings of fate ;)

And now look at Celes Chére - she wears a ribbon very much like Aerith does. Her love interest is Locke Cole, the one she sings about in her aria.
When Aria (that should embody Cheles Chére in her opera dress) appears in FFIII, she doesn´t wear a purple ribbon - now, it´s a white one. This is because Aria has no determined love interest in the game, though it could be interpreted that she holds feelings for Luneth, but... that´s - by now - fanon. So, no love interest = no ribbon, even if it was very significant about her opera dress.
And what about Freya Crescent? Her beloved soulmate died, and she makes clear that she loves him even after he passed away. She wears - haha - a red ribbon at her tail that seems to connect her with her beloved.
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aerithbunny
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Not only this but some Cloti's have even used those ribbons that Cloud and Tifa wear on their arms in AC and ACC as a sign that they are together. But that makes no sense, considering those ribbons represent their ties to Aerith and her death.

Even so, ribbons in FF7 can't really determine anything because as has been stated Aerith wears them a lot.
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Lady Lifestream
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xD! How nice - then Yuffie loves Aerith the most :)
Or - at least - her and her shuriken together!
The whole party loves each other, Denzel, Barret, Tifa and Cloud are engaged/married through those silver rings... that´s logic :3

I agree that Aerith wears a lot of ribbons (her choker, her belt, her tops, her dresses and her hair), but this doesn´t have to mean that they don´t mean something in FFVII - it just means that they overloaded Aerith with fate ribbons and average ribbons xD
And since they determine no pairing at all, it all makes sence - at least Square has some mercy and overloads Aerith with evidence xD
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Anastar
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Lady Lifestream
May 18 2011, 03:06 PM
We all know about the meaning of Aeriths ribbon - the red ribbon of fate. In Japanese, it is believed that beloved soulmates are connected by a red invisible ribbon. To show that, red ribbons are often seen worn by girls to indicate that they are in love with their soulmate (f.E. Sailor Venus, the Senshi of Love - she always wears a red ribbon in her hair). The colour of those strings is usually red, but sometimes it can also be ros� or purple (f.E. Celes Ch�re). We know that Aerith wears her ribbon to indicate that her and Cloud are beloved soulmates - but now, we look at the Wallmarket scene!
Cloud wears - styled as a girl - a dark purple (maybe black, since his purple uniform changes to black later) dress with A HUGE RED RIBBON!!!
This might indicate Clerith even more, doesn�t it?

First of all, I think that's a very interesting theory, Lady Lifestream. I'm glad you shared it with us.

There's a few things I have to wonder about, though. For one, you said:

"We know that Aerith wears her ribbon to indicate that her and Cloud are beloved soulmates " ~Lady Lifestream

How do we know that? :unsure: I've never seen that stated anywhere by SE. It's a *very* interesting theory, but what is there to back it up? Yes, there are examples of that kind of thing done by Sailor Venus and Celes Chere - but they aren't characters in FFVII. So how do we know that Aerith is wearing it for that reason in FFVII?

As you mentioned in your last post, Aerith wore a ribbon in her hair as a child, too, before she ever met Zack or Cloud. So how do we know that she's not wearing the ribbon in her hair because she's always worn a ribbon in her hair? The pink ribbon she wears in FFVII may possibly be one she chose just to match the color of her outfit.

What happens in CC is a retcon, like Cloudy Flower mentioned. I don't always trust retcons myself. I'm also not good at distinguishing colors, so I couldn't tell you whether or not the ribbon Zack gives her in CC is orange red or pink. But the fact remains that Zack did give her that ribbon in CC. So I agree with Vixie that there *is* an implication that it ties her to him. (I'm not stating that as fact - that's just my opinion.) Is it the same ribbon she wears in FFVII? That was never established by SE, as far as I know.

In the third place, what Cloud wears for Don Corneo is optional. He doesn't always wear a ribbon in his hair:

Aerith "Then you'll do it for us?"
"Yeah, all right. What kind of dress you want?"
Aerith "Something..."
(You get to choose what kind of dress you get here. If you make these choices, you will get the Silk Dress, the sexiest dress. Any other combination will get you a non-sexy dress.)


Here's Cloud in one of the non-sexy dresses for example. His hair is in pigtails with no ribbon:

Posted Image

So I don't think the ribbon in Cloud's hair would tie him to Aerith. Besides, he only wears it for one scene.

If any ribbon was supposed to tie Cloud to Aerith, I'd say it would be the one he wears on his arm in AC/ACC. Thing is, that ribbon can't tie him to her romantically because the other members of Avalanche wear it, too. Remember that Marlene wears a pink ribbon in her hair in AC/ACC, too. Does that mean Marlene's tied to Cloud romantically?

I do think your theory is very interesting, Lady Lifestream, so I'm not trying to dismiss it outright. I once wrote a whole website on possible indications of Clerith love that mesh with Japanese tradition, so I've always been interested in that subject. I'm just not sure whether there's enough evidence to back your theory up.
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Lady Lifestream
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How do we know that? unsure.gif I've never seen that stated anywhere by SE.


Yes, you are right about that - this was not well said by me^^"
What I wanted to say was some kind of "We can be sure for 75%" that it was intended, since other games are well packed with this kind of symbolism, too.
But... I think Aerith wearing ribbons as a child isn´t necessarily breaking the theory. We saw Aerith with her pink ribbon first before we encounter her as a child. Her ribbon is very characteristic for her, so Square might have chosen to give her ribbons in other colours so that the player would always recognize her, also. A huge mystery...^^

I think, too, that the ribbon Zacks gave her ties her to him - but we also see the significant shape change of this ribbon - a thing that never happens to other ribbons of hers. All of her ribbons are in exactly the same shape, just her Crisis Core ribbon has a dangling thing on it - as well as in Dissidia Duodecim where her ribbon matches the Crisis Core ribbon exactly (maybe not for the colour, but in shape). Square seems to accurately portray her Crisis Core ribbon as different, they never get it wrong. So this could be just such a minor fact that Square never mentioned it... or they just didn´t want to destroy the love triangle now including Zacks they carefully built up...

But now I think you misunderstood me with the ribbon.
I wasn´t talking about the two ribbons Cloud wears in his hair, even if it was intersting, though.
I was talking about the huge red ribbon he wears around his waist that is always equipped, undepending of what he chooses.
Still, you are right, I wouldn´t use my theory as a proof (because I don´t know if this was made on purpose or not and because this won´t change anything), but I thought it was just... interesting. A minor indication.

The fact that shots my theory is that Marlene wears that ribbon, too... ohnoes!
Still one can argue that this ribbon counts as the red ribbon they wear to remember Aerith and isn´t like Aeriths ribbon, but still...

Thank you for your post :3

And... I know it´s off topic, but...
Can you tell my what do these pink squares at someones profile mean...? You have four, I have two, but there are also ones who just have one or three... what do they mean?^^"
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Materia Thief
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yet again, today I loved you
Lady Lifestream
May 19 2011, 08:30 AM
And... I know it´s off topic, but...
Can you tell my what do these pink squares at someones profile mean...? You have four, I have two, but there are also ones who just have one or three... what do they mean?^^"

Didn't get a chance to fully read/think about all of those posts in the thread yet, so I'll edit my opinion in later, but those boxes are just a little decorative marker for how many posts you've made. ^_^
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Anastar
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Lady Lifestream
 
Yes, you are right about that - this was not well said by me^^"
What I wanted to say was some kind of "We can be sure for 75%" that it was intended, since other games are well packed with this kind of symbolism, too.

I *do* think it's possible that the symbolism was intended, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it proves anything or that the symbolism is definite. In order for it to be proven, SE would have to say something to indicate that, or Aerith would have to say something like she was wearing it for Cloud, or some other indication. But there's no indication like that, as far as I know.

Lady Lifestream
 
But... I think Aerith wearing ribbons as a child isn�t necessarily breaking the theory. We saw Aerith with her pink ribbon first before we encounter her as a child.

True that we see her wearing the ribbon as an adult before we see her wearing a ribbon as a child. I'm just saying that seeing her wear it as a child would indicate that she has always worn a ribbon, so her wearing a ribbon as an adult doesn't necessarily symbolize anything. Once again, the pink ribbon may be to match the rest of her outfit, which is pink and red.

BTW, I'm not trying to disprove you - I'm just bringing up arguments that I'd guess would be brought up in an LT debate to see how such arguments can be answered. ^_^

Lady Lifestream
 
Her ribbon is very characteristic for her, so Square might have chosen to give her ribbons in other colours so that the player would always recognize her, also. A huge mystery...^^

Yes, that's another possible explanation for the ribbons.

Lady Lifestream
 
I think, too, that the ribbon Zacks gave her ties her to him - but we also see the significant shape change of this ribbon - a thing that never happens to other ribbons of hers.

Okay, so we do have indication that the ribbon she wears in CC is to symbolize her feelings for Zack - the indication being that he gave it to her. So where is there indication in FFVII that the one she wears in FFVII ties her to Cloud?

(BTW, I do believe that Cloud and Aerith are soul mates - but I never got that from the ribbon she wears. I got that from Nomura saying in Distance that Aerith's consciousness lives on inside of Cloud, and from Cloud being able to sense Aerith's presence 2 times in the Forgotten City right before she dies.)

Lady Lifestream
 
All of her ribbons are in exactly the same shape, just her Crisis Core ribbon has a dangling thing on it - as well as in Dissidia Duodecim where her ribbon matches the Crisis Core ribbon exactly (maybe not for the colour, but in shape). Square seems to accurately portray her Crisis Core ribbon as different, they never get it wrong. So this could be just such a minor fact that Square never mentioned it... or they just didn�t want to destroy the love triangle now including Zacks they carefully built up...

Interesting. I hadn't noticed that the ribbon she wears in Duodecim was the same as her Crisis Core ribbon. Very honestly, I haven't followed the news on Duodecim very carefully. :blush:

OOC, then... is there anything in Duodecim to imply that the presence of Tifa in Duodecim is supposed to be before what happens in FFVII? I mean, is there any way to determine if the presence of CC Aerith in Duodecim means that the Tifa in Duodceim is supposed to be CC Tifa? That'd be interesting. ^_^

Lady Lifestream
 
But now I think you misunderstood me with the ribbon.
I wasn�t talking about the two ribbons Cloud wears in his hair, even if it was intersting, though.
I was talking about the huge red ribbon he wears around his waist that is always equipped, undepending of what he chooses.

Oh, okay... I thought you meant he was wearing a ribbon in his hair and I didn't remember seeing one. I do remember the sash around his waist, though. ^_^

Lady Lifestream
 
Still, you are right, I wouldn�t use my theory as a proof (because I don�t know if this was made on purpose or not and because this won�t change anything), but I thought it was just... interesting. A minor indication.

I totally agree that it's very interesting. I just doubt that it would stand up in a debate.

Lady Lifestream
 
The fact that shots my theory is that Marlene wears that ribbon, too... ohnoes!
Still one can argue that this ribbon counts as the red ribbon they wear to remember Aerith and isn�t like Aeriths ribbon, but still...

Oh, yes - I do think Marlene wears the ribbon to remember Aerith in her hair instead of on her arm. But unfortunately, I don't think we can say that the ribbon of remembrance in AC/ACC worn by everyone in Avalanche tells us anything about Cloud and Aerith's relationship.

Lady Lifestream
 
And... I know it�s off topic, but...
Can you tell my what do these pink squares at someones profile mean...? You have four, I have two, but there are also ones who just have one or three... what do they mean?^^"

I see Materia Thief already answered you about this. Yes, it's just an indication of how many posts a member has made. I guess it shows I'm a loud mouth! :lol:
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Lady Lifestream
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Didn't get a chance to fully read/think about all of those posts in the thread yet, so I'll edit my opinion in later, but those boxes are just a little decorative marker for how many posts you've made. happy.gif


Thank you :3

Quote:
 
I *do* think it's possible that the symbolism was intended, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it proves anything or that the symbolism is definite.


Okay, yes, you are right, this is... yes. That´s... unindicated :3

Quote:
 
Okay, so we do have indication that the ribbon she wears in CC is to symbolize her feelings for Zack - the indication being that he gave it to her. So where is there indication in FFVII that the one she wears in FFVII ties her to Cloud?


Hmmh... I think FFVII was invented nearly 10 years prior to Crisis Core, so... maybe, in first way, Cloud wasn´t supposed to buy her her ribbon xD
And they might have thought that it would be a romantic thing if Zacks bought her one...
After all, things can change in 10 years. Maybe he will say how nice her ribbon looks or maybe she will make a comment about her ribbon in the FFVII remake (if there will ever be one ;) )

Quote:
 
I totally agree that it's very interesting. I just doubt that it would stand up in a debate.


It wouldn´t ^^
This cannot be a proof, not even hardly xD
Maybe something minor, something that Square has put in subconciously...
But it´s of course nothing that will be used in a debate xD
(When even the things Nomura stated are being burnt...)

Quote:
 
But unfortunately, I don't think we can say that the ribbon of remembrance in AC/ACC worn by everyone in Avalanche tells us anything about Cloud and Aerith's relationship.


That´s right - those ribbons have nothing to do with the love of Cloud and Aerith, they are just... remembranceing :3 (hope I spelled that right... or that this word even exists!!! xD)
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