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Clouds Light...; Again...
Topic Started: Feb 5 2011, 07:45 PM (1,731 Views)
Zee
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rabbit heart
Lady Lifestream
 
In this case, Tifa would be Clouds light, so also a part of him. And Nomura already said that if one thinks about Tifa as this, she is no regular human being.
This makes... sense... O.O


Agreed. Tifa being a normal human with nothing but light would imply she's a Princess of Heart, but she's clearly not, and that'd kinda be a big plot hole.

I sorta skimmed (sorry guys it's just SUPER HOT today and I'm not totally capable of coherent thought in this heat) but while Nomura left a lot of Tifa's character to interpretation, with what we know so far her being manifestation of his light just seems to make the most sense and leave the fewest plot holes.

I agree with the posts saying there's different forms of light -- romantic & symbolic -- and Nomura did say Tifa was supposed to represent a feeling Cloud was running from in AC.

idk I think people still hold some bias from ff7 over to KH -- and I do this as well -- leading to the feeling of Tifa being connected as Cloud's light to an automatic DO NOT WANT, but just keep in mind KH is its own separate universe, and while certain relationships echo their ff7 ones, it's obviously not going to be the same. Tifa has always been a support role to Cloud because she's his best friend, and her supporting her in KH is no different to that -- but we really haven't seen anything further about their relationship, pro or con. Until we get a KH game that goes into their sidestory a bit more, imo, Tifa being his light isn't really very LTD related. Same goes for Aeris; her being/not being his (romantic!) light doesn't change the fact that the games give subtle hints towards their relationship.

And finally to be honest I didn't really get the impression KH!Tifa even liked Cloud, and if I hadn't played ff7 I wouldn't assume anything romantic at all.
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Lady Lifestream
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Der Ruf des Kolibris
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Correct me if im wrong but i think Sephy says something similar to Cloud in either FFVII or AC.

No, no, youīre right, I thought first that he really meant that^^
But... it seems kind of wrong to me. After all, it was revealed that Cloud WAS NOT Sephiroths copy, but just a person with implanted JENOVA-cells following Sephiroths will - in this case, his reunion. But he never said "I am you".
They are just called Sephiroth copies because they all got JENOVAs cells, like Sephiroth did; but they never were copies of Sephiroth himself.
(But, actually, in a very early script, Cloud was REALLY just a Sephiroth copy; but Aeriths first love was also Sephiroth himself, so... ;) )

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I think he meant the fact that the story of FFVII doesnt apply to KH. BUT he clearly states that the RELATIONSHIP between Cloud and Aerith is the same ( or can be linked together ) as shown in the ending.

Agreed. He said that the characters still remain the same, even if they are in another universe without knowing the things that happened in FFVII.

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Agreed. Tifa being a normal human with nothing but light would imply she's a Princess of Heart, but she's clearly not, and that'd kinda be a big plot hole.

Yes, that bothered me, too^^

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I agree with the posts saying there's different forms of light -- romantic & symbolic -- and Nomura did say Tifa was supposed to represent a feeling Cloud was running from in AC.

Uhm, he didnīt say Tifa represented a feeling - he said Cloud runs from "something warm" represented by Tifa in AC.

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idk I think people still hold some bias from ff7 over to KH -- and I do this as well -- leading to the feeling of Tifa being connected as Cloud's light to an automatic DO NOT WANT, but just keep in mind KH is its own separate universe, and while certain relationships echo their ff7 ones, it's obviously not going to be the same.

Agreed^^

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Tifa has always been a support role to Cloud because she's his best friend, and her supporting her in KH is no different to that.

Agreed once more :3

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And finally to be honest I didn't really get the impression KH!Tifa even liked Cloud, and if I hadn't played ff7 I wouldn't assume anything romantic at all.

Well, I think she does though^^"
To me, she seemed really desperate in this game. It just looked as if she wanted to chain Cloud to herself, and that this didnīt work. She seemed always to think "If he goes now, I will never see him again" or something like that, so she kept running after him so she would be together with him again.
Cloud seemed to be more determined to avoid her in this game, to really, really try to escape from her presence.
And because Tifa wants to be by Clouds side, she wont allow him to go away. And if the personalities and relationships stay the same as in VII, then Tifa would still be loving Cloud, wouldnīt she...?
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Xinean
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how did this get here i am not good at internets
Lady Lifestream
Jun 9 2011, 02:46 PM
And if the personalities and relationships stay the same as in VII, then Tifa would still be loving Cloud, wouldnīt she...?

I think this is sort of a moot point as of KHverse, since they would be the same person. If you think of it in a broader sense, Tifa could be associated with all of Cloud's 'better' emotions, like his self-confidence, his inner strength and his desire to protect others. Sephiroth could be associated with the darker ones like self-pity and hatred, his weaknesses and his inability to protect other people.

If you associate Tifa with positive emotions, you could certainly associate her with loving Cloud as him learning to love and accept himself.
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Quexinos
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WOO HOO!
I'm kind of curious, there's a quote by Nomura that says "In Mr. Nojima's scenario, it explained Cloud and Tifa's connection more in-depth but I deleted it away." For those of you who say Tifa isn't Cloud's light or that Aerith is his light, what do you think that scene would have entailed? Or do you think it WOULD have had Tifa as Cloud's light but it was deleted to let players decide so it doesn't matter?

Personally I'm on board with the "Tifa isn't human" thing. I think both Cloud's darkness and light manifested at some point. His darkness as Sephiroth and his light as Tifa. I think this scene would have had them all coming together as they were all part of Cloud... or something weird like that :P
EDIT
That would also explain why Tifa is so desperate to find him. I don't think she KNOWS she's his light, but she just knows she's connected to him somehow. She's a part of him that's kind of lost and that's why acts kind of weird. Seph is fully aware but not Tifa so much. That's my take anyway
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aerithbunny
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I don't believe Tifa is Cloud's light. Considering in the first KH he was clearly looking for Aerith as shown at the end of it. And she was his light in my opinion due to the facts that Tifa wasn't even mentioned. In truth, Tifa is a being of light, just as Sephiroth is a being of darkness, but that's as far as it goes for me. Aerith is Cloud's light in my opinion because she is a middle ground person of the planet, and Cloud is in between the light and darkness so Aerith is his light because she can understand him better then Tifa can. Sephiroth seems to understand the darkness in Cloud and thinks it will overcome him, but Aerith seems to believe in Cloud while Tifa tries to give him her light for strength, he basically rejects it because there's too much darkness in him for him to properly be able to use it.
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FeraNelia
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'I kept waiting...'
I think Derpy meant that Tifa is Cloud's inner light, which is (as I see it) different from the "romantic light", aka "the most precious person".

And I think I agree, I believe Tifa isn't really a human, but a manifestation of Cloud's inner light. It makes sense. Aeris, however, is different kind of light - she's the most important person in Cloud's life. Just like Kairi is Sora's. I don't want to repeat everything that has been said already, but let's remember that "light" doesn't always have to be a romantic thing. There's also symbolic light.

KH1 was more about finding your most precious person (in other words, your "outer" light) while KH2 was more about your inner light. This seems to apply Cloud, too.
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Quexinos
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WOO HOO!
FeraNelia
Jun 23 2011, 02:28 PM
I think Derpy meant that Tifa is Cloud's inner light, which is (as I see it) different from the "romantic light", aka "the most precious person".

And I think I agree, I believe Tifa isn't really a human, but a manifestation of Cloud's inner light. It makes sense. Aeris, however, is different kind of light - she's the most important person in Cloud's life. Just like Kairi is Sora's. I don't want to repeat everything that has been said already, but let's remember that "light" doesn't always have to be a romantic thing. There's also symbolic light.

Yep, exactly, and honestly that's how I saw it before I knew the LT was involved in this :P
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Lady Lifestream
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(My Quote-thing isnīt working! Ohnoes! O.O)

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I'm kind of curious, there's a quote by Nomura that says "In Mr. Nojima's scenario, it explained Cloud and Tifa's connection more in-depth but I deleted it away." For those of you who say Tifa isn't Cloud's light or that Aerith is his light, what do you think that scene would have entailed? Or do you think it WOULD have had Tifa as Cloud's light but it was deleted to let players decide so it doesn't matter?

Hmmh... I think this can be taken differently. Tifas and Clouds relationship has many sides.
Maybe this scene could have explained that Tifa is a manifestation of his inner light, right.
Or this could define their relationship more as a one-sided one.
Or it could have shown Tifa and Sephiroth returning to Cloud.
Or maybe Cloud being angry about Tifa running after him.
Or Cloud mentioning Aerith and Tifa being jealous.
Or Cloud having a brother-sister relationship with Tifa.
Or Tifa wanting to show Cloud how much she loves him and he being quiet.

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Personally I'm on board with the "Tifa isn't human" thing. I think both Cloud's darkness and light manifested at some point. His darkness as Sephiroth and his light as Tifa. I think this scene would have had them all coming together as they were all part of Cloud... or something weird like that tongue.gif

Right, I thought of something like that, too! :3

[/QUOTE]That would also explain why Tifa is so desperate to find him. I don't think she KNOWS she's his light, but she just knows she's connected to him somehow. She's a part of him that's kind of lost and that's why acts kind of weird. Seph is fully aware but not Tifa so much. That's my take anyway [/QUOTE]
Hmmh... yes, this could be! But I always thought Tifa wished to be with Cloud because she loves him and has the feeling to lose him... kind of that. She seems so desperate to find him, one could really see she truly loved Cloud with all her heart and the rest of her. Hmmh... but you could be right.
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