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Clouds Light...; Again...
Topic Started: Feb 5 2011, 07:45 PM (1,732 Views)
Jon Snow
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khaleesi ♥
(This is Cali's sister, I am using her account...)

This quote is really confusing to me, well actually its not confusing at all, which is my problem, why are people saying Tifa is CLOUDS light, the quote looks like its saying simply; compared to Sephiroth, Tifa is Light... :unsure:

But I keep seeing people use this as proof Tifa is Clouds light; when A. her scene is optional, B. the only scene she talks to Cloud in is optional as well, and then C. It says compared to Sephiroth she is light, not Clouds...

Also, Cloud not only refuses her light but it hurts him as well, and He's also running from her...even though in KH it said he's searching for his light - not running from it.

And Aerith is seen waiting in the spot he left, after saying his light will lead him back there again, and not to mention in KHI she and Cloud are the only ones there - no Tifa in sight.

Sorry if this has been answered somewhere. :no:
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Alan Bates
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That one guy
Didn't Tifa tell Cloud to TAKE her light? Which implies that it's something he doesn't already have.

If Tifa WAS his light, he wouldn't have to TAKE light from her, would he?

I don't recall Sora ever TAKING Kairi's light.
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Kaleta
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Clorith nazi
What alan said ^

They claim that she is Cloud's light because Sephy is Cloud's darkness, but in that description, they are merely saying that sephy IS darkness, and tifa IS light. But that is the reason they claim that.

And like you clearly state, her scene is optional, i spoke to a clorith on DA who had no idea Tifa even interacted with Cloud. They finished the game without that scene. I think her being there is still only pure fanservice, but thats just me
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Lady Lifestream
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Der Ruf des Kolibris
But do you know whatīs funny?
The quote stating Tifa is - compared with Sephiroth - light is:

"I think it's more interesting to get the people who play the game to think about it. For example, in the sense of 'if Sephiroth is darkness to Cloud, then the light is Tifa', people might take it as Tifa being a kind of being, not like a regular human being."

Nomura wants the player to think about this scene, and one possible interpretation is to take it as "if Sephiroth is darkness, then Tifa is light".
So.
Nomura said this is up to the player to interpret.
Now CloTis are mocking about this one:

*about Cloud searching for Aerith in KH*
"Well, what do you think? If indeed it was Aeris, then the bit in the ending was the answer. You might say it was made so that you can take it that way."

Well, if one can trust Nomuras interpretations of the players interpretations, then this line is true, too. Some CloTis really say that this line - "because one can take/interpret it this way" - indicates that the truth is NOT how one can interpret this.
Well, then the line above should be wrong, too! ><
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Kaleta
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Clorith nazi
Lady Lifestream
Jun 6 2011, 03:56 PM
*about Cloud searching for Aerith in KH*
"Well, what do you think? If indeed it was Aeris, then the bit in the ending was the answer. You might say it was made so that you can take it that way."

Well, if one can trust Nomuras interpretations of the players interpretations, then this line is true, too. Some CloTis really say that this line - "because one can take/interpret it this way" - indicates that the truth is NOT how one can interpret this.
Well, then the line above should be wrong, too! ><

Err if anything that kinda hurts them? They are claiming that the way Nomura said it means thats not the ONLY way to interpret the scene. Doesnt that kinda hint at the clotis? That they can interpret the scene differently if they want it to be?

To me, him mentioning the very fact about the end kinda means thats how its MEANT to be. But YOU as the player, can interpret it differently. Its another one of those, optional meanings but with a canon outcome moment imo P:

Quote:
 
"I think it's more interesting to get the people who play the game to think about it. For example, in the sense of 'if Sephiroth is darkness to Cloud, then the light is Tifa', people might take it as Tifa being a kind of being, not like a regular human being."

Note it clearly states "TO Cloud" and in joins it with Tifa "being" light. Meaning it cloud be interpreted as Tifa "being a light TO cloud", not saying "being of light OF Clouds". :lmao: And TBH, Tifa IS a being of light, so it would make sense it says "TO cloud" not "OF Cloud"
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Zee
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rabbit heart
This is always the way I've interpreted it:

Sephiroth and Tifa are merely manifestations of Cloud's darkness and light. Tifa's a bit more of a derp about it, but I recall Sephiroth commenting that he was a part of Cloud. And if his darkness manifested, then logic would dictate his light would as well.

I don't feel that, in Cloud's case anyway, his light = the person he loves. It seems he's quite like Riku in that he got lost in darkness (I think he actually says this verbatim) and is trying to find his middle ground. In fact his entire sidestory in KH2 was a lot like Riku's in CoM -- and in that story, Riku chose to walk a path of twilight than simply cover up his darkness and walk the path of light. The same for Cloud. Tifa's light blinds him and she's quite eager to help but doesn't see that he needs to walk his own path.

Aeris was said to be stable between her light and darkness, and already seems to share a special relationship/friendship with Cloud. She doesn't have to be full of only light to do this.

So basically, I don't feel like Tifa being Cloud's light means anything romantic. In fact I'd say it's very unromantic if she's simply a projection of himself.

Then again in KH3 it could be revealed to be something else, so.
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aerithbunny
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My interpretation is that Sora's light was always Kairi, we all kinda knew that when he pierced his own heart and she came out of it.

In my opinion Cloud's light isn't Tifa, it's Aerith. Tifa merely IS light, just as Sephiroth is darkness. But Cloud is in the middle more or less, he isn't on either side. Aerith seems to be the one though who he speaks to about things before running off to face Sephiroth. Even so what Tifa did was try to be Cloud's light only to have him basically reject the light all together because he's too dark to really be light, however he's not darkness, therefore he's in the middle. Just as Aerith is to me not a being of light or darkness, she represents the planet in many ways in FF7 and is therefore in the middle just as Cloud is, so she is Cloud's light because she understands him.

That is my interpretation.
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Xinean
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how did this get here i am not good at internets
Zee
Jun 7 2011, 02:14 AM
So basically, I don't feel like Tifa being Cloud's light means anything romantic. In fact I'd say it's very unromantic if she's simply a projection of himself.

This. I mean, come on, Riku got light from Mickey and I don't assume that means that there is some weird guy on guy bestiality going on there.

Tifa is sort of an inner manifestation of his light, imo.
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Kaleta
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Clorith nazi
Xinean
Jun 7 2011, 03:28 AM
Zee
Jun 7 2011, 02:14 AM
So basically, I don't feel like Tifa being Cloud's light means anything romantic. In fact I'd say it's very unromantic if she's simply a projection of himself.

This. I mean, come on, Riku got light from Mickey and I don't assume that means that there is some weird guy on guy bestiality going on there.

Tifa is sort of an inner manifestation of his light, imo.

Jog my memory sorry, is Mickey Riku's light or part of him?

Cause if not that kinda just proves that a being of light CAN give someone else THEIR light. Just like Tifa is doing to Cloud, she told Cloud to have HER light. Shes just as being of light just as sephy is a being of darkness. Difference is that they make it clear Sephy is PART of Cloud.
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Xinean
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how did this get here i am not good at internets
Kaleta
Jun 7 2011, 10:28 AM
Xinean
Jun 7 2011, 03:28 AM

This. I mean, come on, Riku got light from Mickey and I don't assume that means that there is some weird guy on guy bestiality going on there.

Tifa is sort of an inner manifestation of his light, imo.

Jog my memory sorry, is Mickey Riku's light or part of him?

Cause if not that kinda just proves that a being of light CAN give someone else THEIR light. Just like Tifa is doing to Cloud, she told Cloud to have HER light. Shes just as being of light just as sephy is a being of darkness. Difference is that they make it clear Sephy is PART of Cloud.

I have no idea. I haven't played Kingdom Hearts in ages, lol. I know Mickey gave light to Riku and there's no indication that he has ever had a 'romantic light' of any sort.

Basically, I base it off of Nomura's quote that said if Sephiroth is Cloud's darkness, Tifa could be seen as his light, and Aerith saying that Cloud will find his light without being like (oh and it's me just so you know). He's just so bathed in darkness he has trouble accepting light of any kind. I mean if you sit around in a dark room and suddenly come into the light, your eyes would hurt too. Doesn't mean that light is completely incompatible to you for being in darkness, you just need to adjust.

Also doesn't mean Cloud and Aerith aren't romantically involved in KHverse. It just gets inevitably more tangled up as the series goes on and you have nobodies with romantic entanglements and whatnot who have no one who is a distinctive 'light'. To rely entirely on 'she is his light, therefore it must be romantic' negates so many other relationships in the series that don't depend on the light/darkness dynamic.
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Lady Lifestream
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Der Ruf des Kolibris
Quote:
 
Note it clearly states "TO Cloud" and in joins it with Tifa "being" light.

Uuuh, now that you said that - thatīs wrong from me! It just stated "If Sephiroth is darkness, then Tifa is light" >.<

Quote:
 
Sephiroth and Tifa are merely manifestations of Cloud's darkness and light.

I thought that, too! Sephiroth said that he knew Cloud because "he is Cloud", so he isnīt just darkness to Cloud, but he is Clouds "darkness".
In this case, Tifa would be Clouds light, so also a part of him. And Nomura already said that if one thinks about Tifa as this, she is no regular human being.
This makes... sense... O.O

Quote:
 
I don't feel that, in Cloud's case anyway, his light = the person he loves.

Well, in the first time, he searched for his light (Aerith) while Sora stated that he searched for his light (Kairi), too - so the light of one person would be the beloved one; if one listens to the lyrics of "Hikari", then there is also a part about a lover being someones light.
But in KHII, he has already found his light, he doesnīt have to search for it. What Clouds searches is a balance between his INNER darkness and light. Because he is constantly running away from Tifa, the embodiement of his inner light, the darkness rules in his heart.
While fighting against Sephiroth, he regains his balance and begins to glow with light (white), then starting his limitbreak (golden).

Quote:
 
This. I mean, come on, Riku got light from Mickey and I don't assume that means that there is some weird guy on guy bestiality going on there.

Good point^^
But one has to differenciate between someones inner light (heartlight) and someones light in person (the beloved one). Sora calls Kairi his light, and we know that he loves Kairi. Utada Hikaru sings in her song about her beloved being a light to her and providing her comfort in the middle of the night. In Kingdom Hearts, the light is a good thing that brings happiness and comfort to everyone - very similar to a lover who comforts his partner. Ergo, one has not to have a heart of pure light (as only the princesses of hearts have got those) to be someones romantic light. If this was true, then only princesses of hearts could be someones light... and this is certainly not true.
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
I think people need to look at the whole quote:

Nomura: In Mr. Nojima's scenario, it explained Cloud and Tifa's connection more in-depth but I deleted it away. I thought it would be more interesting to let the gamers think about it. For example, "If Cloud's darkness is Sephiroth, then Tifa is light"; in that sense, you can take it that Tifa isn't really human. The reason Tifa doesn't talk to anyone else besides Sora and Co. may be because she doesn't exist as a human. Of course, I also presented her in a way that she could also be a resident of Hollow Bastion, so I think you can feely think for yourself about her.

Nojima: Tifa wasn't planned to appear at first. I was talking with Tetsu about what Cloud could be doing in Hallow Bastion, and we eventually moved towards him chasing after Sephiroth, but also being chased by something himself. So Cloud's really running from something but goes around pretending, saying that he's chasing Sephiroth. Then we decided to make it him running from the "something warm" like what Tifa was after in AC.

Interviewer: We heard from Mr. Nomura that you could see it as "if Sephiroth is Cloud's darkness, then the light is Tifa." Looking at it like that, what do you think Aerith's position is?

Nojima: In my opinion, Aerith doesn't really belong to either light or darkness. Kind of like, she's in another world and can go to either if she wants to. She's independent, not steeped in either light or darkness. To put it another way, she's the most stable, having both light and darkness.
~KH2 Ultimania

Nomura only says that's one EXAMPLE of how players could see the scenario. He doesn't say that Tifa is definitely Cloud's light. He said that's ONE way you could think about it, but that he left it so that people could think freely for themselves about it.

I think the way Nojima says that Cloud is only pretending to chase after Sephiroth to cover the fact that he's running away from Tifa can only mean that Tifa's not Cloud's light.

EDIT: BTW, that quote is from the KH2 Ultimania.
Link: http://www.kh2.co.uk/website/interviews/kh2u
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Kaleta
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Clorith nazi
Xinean
Jun 7 2011, 12:59 PM
I have no idea. I haven't played Kingdom Hearts in ages, lol. I know Mickey gave light to Riku and there's no indication that he has ever had a 'romantic light' of any sort.

Basically, I base it off of Nomura's quote that said if Sephiroth is Cloud's darkness, Tifa could be seen as his light, and Aerith saying that Cloud will find his light without being like (oh and it's me just so you know). He's just so bathed in darkness he has trouble accepting light of any kind. I mean if you sit around in a dark room and suddenly come into the light, your eyes would hurt too. Doesn't mean that light is completely incompatible to you for being in darkness, you just need to adjust.

Also doesn't mean Cloud and Aerith aren't romantically involved in KHverse. It just gets inevitably more tangled up as the series goes on and you have nobodies with romantic entanglements and whatnot who have no one who is a distinctive 'light'. To rely entirely on 'she is his light, therefore it must be romantic' negates so many other relationships in the series that don't depend on the light/darkness dynamic.

Like aly has said, it doesnt say Tifa IS Cloud's light. It just says Tifa IS light. Which she is.

And of course, i dont deny that even if Tifa IS Cloud's light it means they are in a romantic relationship. But i do deny the fact Tifa is Clouds light cause they didnt mention that, they worded it carefully enough IMO so that they dont say that. But like Aly said, they said its ONE way to see it.

Lady Lifestream

Quote:
 
Uuuh, now that you said that - thatīs wrong from me! It just stated "If Sephiroth is darkness, then Tifa is light" >.<

Hehe <3 nah its k, cause aly's quote says Cloud on it ^^
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Xinean
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how did this get here i am not good at internets
Kaleta
Jun 7 2011, 06:35 PM
Like aly has said, it doesnt say Tifa IS Cloud's light. It just says Tifa IS light. Which she is.

And of course, i dont deny that even if Tifa IS Cloud's light it means they are in a romantic relationship. But i do deny the fact Tifa is Clouds light cause they didnt mention that, they worded it carefully enough IMO so that they dont say that. But like Aly said, they said its ONE way to see it.

Keep in mind it was translated from Japanese. I have no idea what the original Japanese even was so I can't translate it to see if there was any sort of transitive property not translated but implied in English, or if it was just 'Tifa is anyone's light, maybe even bob's, who cares lol'.
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Kaleta
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Clorith nazi
Xinean
Jun 7 2011, 07:43 PM
Keep in mind it was translated from Japanese. I have no idea what the original Japanese even was so I can't translate it to see if there was any sort of transitive property not translated but implied in English, or if it was just 'Tifa is anyone's light, maybe even bob's, who cares lol'.

Err which quote are you talking about? o.o
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