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Hojo. Somethin' Ain't Addin' Up
Topic Started: Oct 25 2010, 08:27 PM (611 Views)
Jon Snow
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khaleesi ♥
Question, is Hojo being controlled/manipulated/forced to forget the truth by Jenova cells or something?
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Alan Bates
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That one guy
What in particular are you referencing?
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Jon Snow
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khaleesi ♥
This;


Hojo:"What the--? You mean only a failure made it here?"

(Cloud speaks to his back.)

Cloud:"Professor... please give me a number. Please, Professor..."

(Hojo spins to face him.)

Hojo:"Shut up, miserable failure..."

(Cloud slumps down. We hear the sound of an electrical spark, and catch
another fleeting glimpse of Sephiroth's visage, then Cloud rises into the
air, spinning, exactly like Sephiroth had at the Forgotten Capital. He
shoots up to the tree-like structure at the ceiling. The screen goes
white.)

Rufus:"Who... was that?" (referring to Cloud)

Hojo :"...He's a Sephiroth-clone I created after the real Sephiroth
died five years ago."
"Jenova cells amd Mako, with my knowledge and skills, have been
combined with science and nature to bring him to life."



Can someone explain why Hojo just admitted that Cloud was a Sephiroth clone he created and that he "brought him to life"?

Because, I thought Cloud WASN'T a Sephiroth clone.
:unsure:
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Prince Roxas
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Just a Nobody
He's just stating that Cloud was part of the Sephiroth/Jenova project where he tried to enchance SOLDIERS the same way that Sephiroth was. Cloud was experimented on the same way as the Black Cloaked clones but Cloud managed to retain his own personality and identity (somewhat as he took Zack's history).

Its basically how its been worded, I think they were just named "Copies" in the Japanese version of VII so I don't know if it is a mistranslation to them being called "Clones". "Copies" seems to make more sense.

But yeah I understand how you are confused Forty Six & 2, I remember when I first saw this I as just utterly confused which made me think that Cloud at the start was some clone and that I finally met the REAL Cloud at Mideel. Yeah they did do kind of a bad job explaining it :ermm:
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
Kuki Prower
Oct 26 2010, 04:54 PM
He's just stating that Cloud was part of the Sephiroth/Jenova project where he tried to enchance SOLDIERS the same way that Sephiroth was. Cloud was experimented on the same way as the Black Cloaked clones but Cloud managed to retain his own personality and identity (somewhat as he took Zack's history).

Right. Cloud was part of the Sephiroth/Jenova project, and he *was* treated with Mako the same way other clones were. Remember what Cloud said to the other members of Avalanche after the Lifestream event:

Cloud "I'm physically built like someone on SOLDIER."
"Hojo's plan to clone Sephiroth wasn't that difficult."
"It was just the same procedure they use when creating members of SOLDIER."
(He shrugs)
Cloud "You see, someone in SOLDIER isn't simply exposed to Mako energy."
"Their bodies are actually injected with Jenova cells......"
"For better or for worse, only the strong can enter SOLDIER."

"It has nothing to do with the Jenova Reunion."
"But weak people...... like me, get lost in the whole thing."
(He looks up.)
Cloud "The combination of Jenova cells, Sephiroth's strong will, and my own weaknesses are what created me."
"Everyone knew that. I'm...... Cloud."


Cloud says that only the strong can enter SOLDIER, while those that are weak get lost in the whole thing. The figures in the black cloaks at Nibelheim who had trouble talking and the figures in black cloaks who were marching to the Northern Crater at the Reunion were the ones who were weak. Their minds weren't strong enough to retain their own personalities after getting injected with Jenova cells. Instead, they became subject to the will of Jenova and/or Sephiroth.

Cloud was basically like the clones who were weak. He was subject to the will of Sephiroth/Jenova, which is why he gave the black materia to Sephiroth in the Temple of Ancients and beat on Aerith afterwards, approached Aerith with his sword raised at the Forgotten City, and gave Sephiroth the black materia in the Northern Crater. He was subject to Sephiroth's will because he was like the weak clones.

Kuki
 
Its basically how its been worded, I think they were just named "Copies" in the Japanese version of VII so I don't know if it is a mistranslation to them being called "Clones". "Copies" seems to make more sense.

Agreed.
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Prince Roxas
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Just a Nobody
Anastar
Oct 26 2010, 05:33 PM
Cloud "I'm physically built like someone on SOLDIER."
"Hojo's plan to clone Sephiroth wasn't that difficult."
"It was just the same procedure they use when creating members of SOLDIER."
(He shrugs)
Cloud "You see, someone in SOLDIER isn't simply exposed to Mako energy."
"Their bodies are actually injected with Jenova cells......"
"For better or for worse, only the strong can enter SOLDIER."

"It has nothing to do with the Jenova Reunion."
"But weak people...... like me, get lost in the whole thing."
(He looks up.)
Cloud "The combination of Jenova cells, Sephiroth's strong will, and my own weaknesses are what created me."
"Everyone knew that. I'm...... Cloud."

Oh I forgot about that quote to how all members of SOLDIER are injected with Jenova cells. Thanks Aly! ^_^

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't a lot of the Black Cloaked Clones the original residents of Nibelheim? I can remember the two children who lived next door to Tifa were some of the Clones who lived in the reconstructed Nibelheim.
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
Kuki Prower
Oct 26 2010, 05:44 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't a lot of the Black Cloaked Clones the original residents of Nibelheim?

I always assumed the black cloaked figures in Nibelheim were original residents of Nibelheim, but I don't remember that being confirmed anywhere. At any rate, those in black cloaks were the weak minded and became subject to Sephiroth/Jenova's will. Those with strong minds were able to retain their own personal will and mental abilities, like members of SOLDIER were able to.
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Jon Snow
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khaleesi ♥
Kuki Prower
Oct 26 2010, 12:54 PM
He's just stating that Cloud was part of the Sephiroth/Jenova project where he tried to enchance SOLDIERS the same way that Sephiroth was. Cloud was experimented on the same way as the Black Cloaked clones but Cloud managed to retain his own personality and identity (somewhat as he took Zack's history).

Its basically how its been worded, I think they were just named "Copies" in the Japanese version of VII so I don't know if it is a mistranslation to them being called "Clones". "Copies" seems to make more sense.

But yeah I understand how you are confused Forty Six & 2, I remember when I first saw this I as just utterly confused which made me think that Cloud at the start was some clone and that I finally met the REAL Cloud at Mideel. Yeah they did do kind of a bad job explaining it :ermm:

Oh, so it's likely just a mistranslation, then. I suppose that makes sense. But Hojo saying he created him and brought him to life gives the impression that Cloud wasn't real.

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Prince Roxas
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Just a Nobody
Forty Six & 2
Oct 26 2010, 07:56 PM
Oh, so it's likely just a mistranslation, then. I suppose that makes sense. But Hojo saying he created him and brought him to life gives the impression that Cloud wasn't real.

Yes that's what I felt at first to, I was 10 when I first played VII and I immediately thought that Hojo had created this "clone" called Cloud. I was sad because I had thought that Aerith didn't get to know the "real" Cloud as the Cloud she was with was a clone and the "real" Cloud was sitting in Mideel :lol:

I assumed so to Aly, I thought there would of been a quote somewhere but I think the two kids are absolutely from the destroyed Nibelheim, they act the same as they did in Cloud's flashback.
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Jon Snow
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khaleesi ♥
Kuki Prower
Oct 26 2010, 05:17 PM
Forty Six & 2
Oct 26 2010, 07:56 PM
Oh, so it's likely just a mistranslation, then. I suppose that makes sense. But Hojo saying he created him and brought him to life gives the impression that Cloud wasn't real.

Yes tht's what I felt at first to, I was 10 when I first played VII and I immediately thought that Hojo had created this "clone" called Cloud. I was sad because I had thought that Aerith didn't get to know the "real" Cloud as the Cloud she was with was a clone and the "real" Cloud was sitting in Mideel :lol:

I assumed so to Aly, I thought there would of been a quote somewhere but I think the two kids are absolutely from the destroyed Nibelheim, they act the same as they did in Cloud's flashback.

I was only 11 when I played VII, but I had my older brothers to explain alot to me. So I still don't really understand that quote. If Hojo didn't "bring Cloud to life" then why would he say so?

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Quexinos
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WOO HOO!
Because Hojo's full of snot. I think the bigger question is why are you taking Hojo's word over Cloud's own subconscious?

Quote:
 

I always assumed the black cloaked figures in Nibelheim were original residents of Nibelheim, but I don't remember that being confirmed anywhere. At any rate, those in black cloaks were the weak minded and became subject to Sephiroth/Jenova's will. Those with strong minds were able to retain their own personal will and mental abilities, like members of SOLDIER were able to.

Seriously? I thought that too at first :lol:, but I think more than likely they're just clones following Sephiroth.
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Jon Snow
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khaleesi ♥
Lol, because Cloud's got memory problems, gets mindfu**ed left and right, and the person that helped in through it went through quite a lot as well.

If I had to trust anything, it'd be an outside source. Not the guy that didn't know his own past five minutes ago. :lmao:


Also, what about Sephiroth saying this;
Sephiroth
"Cloud... Don't blame Tifa."
"The ability to change one's looks, voice, and words, is the
power of Jenova."
"Inside of you, Jenova has merged with Tifa's memories, creating
you.
"


Sephiroth
"Ha, ha, ha...... Think, Cloud!"
"...Cloud? Ha, ha, ha...... Oh, excuse me. You never had a name."





What the chiz?
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Quexinos
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WOO HOO!
I think Hojo is using the term "brought to life" to mean that that's when Cloud became part of the Jenova project. We KNOW Cloud grew up in Nibelheim, we've been told this by the creators ... alot.... so the conclusion here is either that Hojo is full of snot or he mean Cloud had been brought into the project 5 years ago.
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Jon Snow
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khaleesi ♥
Quexinos
Oct 26 2010, 09:33 PM
I think Hojo is using the term "brought to life" to mean that that's when Cloud became part of the Jenova project. We KNOW Cloud grew up in Nibelheim, we've been told this by the creators ... alot.... so the conclusion here is either that Hojo is full of snot or he mean Cloud had been brought into the project 5 years ago.

Look above, pweez.

Also, I'm not so much as trying to take away the fact that Cloud lived in Nibelheim. At this point, I'm not sure what's true. I know what the creators have said, but the game has a lot of weird things said.
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Alan Bates
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That one guy
Quote:
 
I always assumed the black cloaked figures in Nibelheim were original residents of Nibelheim, but I don't remember that being confirmed anywhere. At any rate, those in black cloaks were the weak minded and became subject to Sephiroth/Jenova's will. Those with strong minds were able to retain their own personal will and mental abilities, like members of SOLDIER were able to.

I always assumed that other than Cloud, Tifa, and maybe a small handful of others, everybody that originally lived in Niebelham was dead. The clone were there because they were drawn to some of the more important places Sephiroth had been.

Quote:
 
Oh, so it's likely just a mistranslation, then. I suppose that makes sense. But Hojo saying he created him and brought him to life gives the impression that Cloud wasn't real.

I think what Hojo is implying there is that he made Cloud into something that was important and notable. Before that Cloud was just a little nothing, just another pointless face in the crowd.

Also, I think he was purposely choosing his words to be somewhat misleading. The guy's a jerk like that.

Quote:
 
Yes tht's what I felt at first to, I was 10 when I first played VII and I immediately thought that Hojo had created this "clone" called Cloud. I was sad because I had thought that Aerith didn't get to know the "real" Cloud as the Cloud she was with was a clone and the "real" Cloud was sitting in Mideel

At one point, I started a fanfic around the idea that after all the events in Final Fantasy 7, sometime down the the road, a bitter, scarred man in a ragged Shinra uniform would show up in Tifa's bar claiming to the REAL Cloud and wanting his life back from the clone.

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