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"dream Girl"; What huh?
Topic Started: Oct 2 2010, 11:05 PM (2,672 Views)
DeceitfulAngel
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Wait can that commercial be used....?

I thought it was the english commercial... It is really cute! Though aren't the Japanese commercials which are the official ones having no sort of look at the ltd?...

Nomura did say it wasn't a big part of the story... so why would it be in the commercial? I always thought it was just something they did based off what scenes they had to advertise with... I don't know...
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Kounelli
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From my understanding, a "love that could never be" refers to two people who could never confirm or continue a true relationship. The feelings of love can still be there but there is no possible way to continue it. Regardless if it's a fantasy world, there are barriers. Even though Cloud can still see Aerith we are unsure as to how that scene is being played. For all we know, Aerith can just be some silhouette who can not speak to Cloud.

relationships can not exist in both mediums of living. Feeling love, and having love are two different things. Therefore, Cloud and Aerith are a love that could never be. Ever (based on the commercial). Can they be reunited? Sure why not, but then that's an entirely different medium of existing. (And thus, not part of the message the commercial is displaying)

and about the Sephiroth thing, sure he's the eternal rival, but he wasn't always. If he was then Cloud would have always hated him and vice versa. So the hatred that always was was a marketing goof.



I also find Romeo and Juliet to be a bad example, because their story is a tragedy and the only somewhat happy ending is that the families reconsider their aggressive stance and form a truce. And correct me if I am wrong, but suicide earns you a ticket straight to hell according to Christian belief. They committed violence towards themselves due to love, which is a big no no.


just my two-cents on the commercial itself.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and as a student who has taken and experienced Business and marketing, I would like to point out that commercials can be false ON PURPOSE. They exaggerate situations to meet demands of the people. Most of these can be centered on romance, battles, light-hearted scenes etc.

Any body know that new owl movie that came out? The trailers showed them to be bubbly and cute, but the movie is waaaay too mature for young kiddies. (Blood, violence, torture, betrayal, death, etc.)
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Quexinos
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From my understanding, a "love that could never be" refers to two people who could never confirm or continue a true relationship. The feelings of love can still be there but there is no possible way to continue it. Regardless if it's a fantasy world, there are barriers.

THIS.

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Can they be reunited? Sure why not, but then that's an entirely different medium of existing. (And thus, not part of the message the commercial is displaying)

I can buy this. If Cloud truly loves Aerith and wants to wait until the next life or whathaveyou to be with her, that's fine. But as of where he is right now in the compilation, he's alive and she's... well not. Thus they cannot have a relationship, but they can still have love. Does that make sense?

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They exaggerate situations to meet demands of the people.

You heard it here first folks. People were demanding Cloud and Aerith before the game even came out. :lol:
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Jon Snow
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And my point still stands. If their relationship can continue, the commercial lied. As much as you want the phrase to just be "a love that cannot be among the living, but can ttly exist in other ways." doesn't mean it means that.

Can they still love each other? Sure
Can they have a relationship? No.

No, I'm sorry, I still don't think it means the commercial "lied" because it's true. Cloud and Aerith do love each other, and their relationship amongst the living cannot continue. But that doesn't stop the other ways they can possibly be together.

Cloud and Aerith can be able to not "be together" in the same sense as living couples, but Cloud, as we showed, has other ways to continue any kind of relationship with her.

So, yes, in a sense, their love can never be... in regards to the living world, but they can still have a relationship, whether it's spiritual or not, that only they know of.

Kounelli
 
The feelings of love can still be there but there is no possible way to continue it. Regardless if it's a fantasy world, there are barriers.

I'm not so sure about that, Kounelli. The world Cloud and Aerith live in is much different than ours. Anything is possible there. I mean, both Sephiroth and Aerith can physically touch Cloud, and their both dead. The barrier keeping Cloud and Aerith from each other is separation from the living and the dead.

Do any of you know what the Tanabata myth is? It's a love story of two people that cannot be together(kinda like a love that could never be), the only time they can be together is if it doesn't rain on July 7th. I bring this up because they're a good example of how two people, who cannot "be together" can continue some sort of relationship with each other despite something tragic keeping them from each other.

They're still considered a love that could never be, but they still remained in love with each other and they still felt as though they were in a relationship to each other.

This is the same for Cloud and Aerith.

Kounelli
 

and about the Sephiroth thing, sure he's the eternal rival, but he wasn't always. If he was then Cloud would have always hated him and vice versa. So the hatred that always was was a marketing goof.

But, eternal means;

1.without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal): eternal life.

2.perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.

3.enduring; immutable: eternal principles.

4.Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.



So how was it exactly a goof, if Nomura said it himself?


Kounelli
 

I also find Romeo and Juliet to be a bad example, because their story is a tragedy and the only somewhat happy ending is that the families reconsider their aggressive stance and form a truce. And correct me if I am wrong, but suicide earns you a ticket straight to hell according to Christian belief. They committed violence towards themselves due to love, which is a big no no.

Which is why, some say they are together in hell. (I believe Dante's Inferno speaks of it.) But wherever they are, they're still together.

Kounelli
 
EDIT: Oh yeah, and as a student who has taken and experienced Business and marketing, I would like to point out that commercials can be false ON PURPOSE. They exaggerate situations to meet demands of the people. Most of these can be centered on romance, battles, light-hearted scenes etc.

I find it hard to believe that people had demands *before* they even played VII.

Quexinos
 
Thus they cannot have a relationship, but they can still have love. Does that make sense?


They can have a relationship, though. It might be a lot different from what a living relationship could bring them, as in; getting married, having children, etc, but they have their own kind of relationship built on their bond and other spiritual ways.

See, the tragic part of Cloud and Aerith's relationship is that they cannot be together in the same sense as the living. The tragic part of their love is that they can never get married or have children. But the beautiful part about their love is that they have other ways to continue their relationship, be it spiritual or not.
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Shiva
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I think the basic gist of what I believe in regards to the commercial is that it didn't lie about Cloud and Aerith's love being on that "cannot be" or "will never be" or whatever the exact wording was. In a conventional sense, from the perspective of a normal world like ours, Cloud and Aerith's relationship in regards to a romantic love relationship was over the moment she died. So, in a conventional sense, their love truly is a love that "can never be".

However, once you play the game, you understand that the world of FFVII isn't like ours at all. And, while Cloud and Aerith can no longer be together in a normal sense and can't have a normal relationship (like dating, marriage, children, etc...), it doesn't exactly spell the end for them. And, the Compilation hammers this point home even further.

Does that make sense? :unsure:
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Jon Snow
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Shiva
Oct 12 2010, 03:05 PM
I think the basic gist of what I believe in regards to the commercial is that it didn't lie about Cloud and Aerith's love being on that "cannot be" or "will never be" or whatever the exact wording was. In a conventional sense, from the perspective of a normal world like ours, Cloud and Aerith's relationship in regards to a romantic love relationship was over the moment she died. So, in a conventional sense, their love truly is a love that "can never be".

However, once you play the game, you understand that the world of FFVII isn't like ours at all. And, while Cloud and Aerith can no longer be together in a normal sense and can't have a normal relationship (like dating, marriage, children, etc...), it doesn't exactly spell the end for them. And, the Compilation hammers this point home even further.

Does that make sense? :unsure:

Yes, exactly what I've been saying this whole time. :lol:
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Prince Roxas
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I think it fits in with VII's theme of "life" aswell. Though Cloud and Aerith's love that could never be was seperated in a physical way that they could no longer be together in the world. But Cloud and Aerith are still connected through their love and bond that they have spiritually. Like how Noruma said in Distance that Aerith's councious (sp?) lives within him. So they are always together and their love continues even though Aerith may no longer be with Cloud physically, her soul is.

Basically what FFG said, and what happens to the other characters in the game who have had losses such as Barret with Jessie, Wedge, Biggs and Dyne, Vincent with Lucrecia, ect. I think this also goes with the theme of "life" that people will always live on inside other people's hearts as long as they remember them.

So I don't think the commercial lied at all, it just related to how Clud and Aerith are sepereated physically.
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Jon Snow
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Kuki Prower
Oct 12 2010, 06:40 PM
I think it fits in with VII's theme of "life" aswell. Though Cloud and Aerith's love that could never be was seperated in a physical way that they could no longer be together in the world. But Cloud and Aerith are still connected through their love and bond that they have spiritually. Like how Noruma said in Distance that Aerith's councious (sp?) lives within him. So they are always together and their love continues even though Aerith may no longer be with Cloud physically, her soul is.

Basically what FFG said, and what happens to the other characters in the game who have had losses such as Barret with Jessie, Wedge, Biggs and Dyne, Vincent with Lucrecia, ect. I think this also goes with the theme of "life" that people will always live on inside other people's hearts as long as they remember them.

So I don't think the commercial lied at all, it just related to how Clud and Aerith are sepereated physically.

Yes, exactly! And jus' because their "physical relationship" cannot continue in the living world, it doesn't mean their love and relationship cannot continue other ways.
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Anastar
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Quexinos
 
Then I screwed up, I was trying to say that their relationship can go no further.  That doesn't mean they don't still love each other, right?  Just that their actual relationship is at a halt.

Their relationship in the living world, yes, as in dating, getting married and having babies, etc. However, the concept of the world in FFVII makes it possible for *some kind* of relationship to continue between Cloud and Aerith because he can still see her, talk to her, communicate with her, and touch her, right? So what applies to the real world doesn't necessarily apply to the world of FFVII.

I mentioned the movie "Ghost" in my last post. Have you ever seen it? It's an old flick from 1990, but they still show it sometimes on TV. If you've never seen it, get it on video or something. Here's a review: Ghost. In this flick, it's the *guy* who gets murdered. But as a ghost, he visits the woman he loves and tries to protect her. Their relationship continues - there's even a love scene.

The only reason I bring it up is because the same idea was shown in that flick, so it's not like this is some new and strange idea that Clerith people are inventing on the basis of FFVII alone. :P

Quex
 
I thought this originally, but after you showed me the Romeo and Juliet thing, I changed my mind.  The commercial is saying their relationship can go no further.  But it doesn't mean they don't still love each other.

Okay, if their love for one another can continue, and they can still communicate with one another, still see one another, and still touch one another, why can't any kind of relationship continue? No, they can't get married and have babies, but they can get together and talk and stuff, right? That's not a relationship?

Quex
 
That would mean the commercial lied.  If the phrase means their relationship can't continue, but their relationship DOES continue... doesn't that mean the commercial lied?

Yes and no. A relationship as two living people in the real world can't continue - so it didn't lie about that. And if you think about it, Cloud seems to be the only adult who can still see and talk with Aerith, most likely because of all the Mako infused into his body by Hojo.

But can there be no relationship of any kind between Cloud and Aerith? How can you say there's no relationship at all when they can still see one another, communicate with one another, and touch one another?

Quex
 
Anastar
 
Two people who love one another may be separated by fate in the real and living world, but many  people believe that loved ones can be re-united in heaven. In that sense, Romeo and Juliet actually killed themselves so that they *could* be together - for eternity.

'cept that won't work On me, I don't believe in heaven :P

Then maybe that's why you have a hard time conceiving of such a relationship. :P In that case, let's focus on whether or not you believe that spirits exist in the Lifestream, and whether or not you believe that Cloud can see, communicate with, and touch at least some spirits - including Sephiroth, Zack, and Aerith. That was shown in both FFVII and AC/ACC, wasn't it?
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Quexinos
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The only reason I bring it up is because the same idea was shown in that flick, so it's not like this is some new and strange idea that Clerith people are inventing on the basis of FFVII alone.

Oh I know that. I'm not trying to say Cleriths came up with it. I was trying to prove a point and I think that point got lost in all these pages.

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Okay, if their love for one another can continue, and they can still communicate with one another, still see one another, and still touch one another, why can't any kind of relationship continue? No, they can't get married and have babies, but they can get together and talk and stuff, right? That's not a relationship?


You're missing my point. I'm not saying they CANNOT under any circumstance have a relationship. Here is the point I'm attempting to make:

This all started because I wanted to prove that at the very least the commercial was misleading or told a half truth. With the phrase "A love that could never be." that gives the impression that the love is ending right there and not continuing, right? You don't see a guy burying a girl in a commercial with that phrase and think, "Oh he's certainly going to see her again cause they'll continue their love another way :D"

You think, "Aww so sad he lost his love :cry: "

If Cloud and Aerith are continuing their relationship, the commercial was at the very least misleading. I mean be honest, any other time you hear that phrase, regardless of where you heard it or what kind of a world it is, you assume those people are not going to be together, period, right? Because you assume that, and don't know anything else about the details, the commercial is misleading or telling a half truth. This is to make it seem appealing to people. This is to sell it to people

I mean can you imagine if the commercial showed that scene and said, "A story about a love that continues because it's a magical fantasy world and they can do stuff like that."

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Yes and no. A relationship as two living people in the real world can't continue - so it didn't lie about that. And if you think about it, Cloud seems to be the only adult who can still see and talk with Aerith, most likely because of all the Mako infused into his body by Hojo.

I'm not sure what Mako has to do with it :unsure:

Quote:
 
In that case, let's focus on whether or not you believe that spirits exist in the Lifestream, and whether or not you believe that Cloud can see, communicate with, and touch at least some spirits - including Sephiroth, Zack, and Aerith. That was shown in both FFVII and AC/ACC, wasn't it?

Yes but again we're getting waaaaay past my original point that I posted above.
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Anastar
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Quexinos
 
Oh I know that.  I'm not trying to say Cleriths came up with it.  I was trying to prove a point and I think that point got lost in all these pages.

I know you weren't trying to say that we came up with that idea, but I've gotten that feeling from other Cloti's. So I was just trying to show that the idea of a love continuing beyond death isn't anything new.

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You're missing my point.  I'm not saying they CANNOT under any circumstance have a relationship.

Oh, okay. When you said their love can continue but their relationship can't, I thought you meant they couldn't have any sort of relationship now under any circumstances. Even people on the internet who only meet virtually can have relationships.

Quex
 
Here is the point I'm attempting to make:

This all started because I wanted to prove that at the very least the commercial was misleading or told a half truth.  With the phrase "A love that could never be." that gives the impression that the love is ending right there and not continuing, right?

No, I don't - but I've seen that phrase many times to mean that two people who are in love can't be together again in the real world, but their love will continue on a spiritual and/or emotional level. I've even heard that phrase used in reference to Romeo and Juleit before, and I've always thought of their love continuing beyond death.

Quex
 
You don't see a guy burying a girl in a commercial with that phrase and think, "Oh he's certainly going to see her again cause they'll continue their love another way :D"

I didn't see the commercial before playing the game. It was the first Final Fantasy I'd ever played, and I played it coz a friend talked me into it. I hadn't seen any of the commercials for it.

If I *had* seen the commercial, however, I wouldn't expect a relationship to continue *UNLESS* she was able to appear as a ghost or spirit to him after her death. After all, that idea's been used in many plays, stories, etc., so who knows what the circumstances will be? So no, I didn't expect Cloud to be visited by Aerith spiritually until after I'd played the game and saw that the concept of the Lifestream made that idea possible.

Quex
 
If Cloud and Aerith are continuing their relationship, the commercial was at the very least misleading.  I mean be honest, any other time you hear that phrase, regardless of where you heard it or what kind of a world it is, you assume those people are not going to be together, period, right?  Because you assume that, and don't know anything else about the details, the commercial is misleading or telling a half truth.  This is to make it seem appealing to people.  This is to sell it to people.

I guess we have two different ideas about what the phrase means. To me, the phrase "a love that could never be" implies that the love will continue in some way or another.

Quex
 
Quote:
 
Yes and no. A relationship as two living people in the real world can't continue - so it didn't lie about that. And if you think about it, Cloud seems to be the only adult who can still see and talk with Aerith, most likely because of all the Mako infused into his body by Hojo.

I'm not sure what Mako has to do with it :unsure:

Mako=Lifestream, so Cloud has a high level of Lifestream inside of his body. He also floated in the Lifestream from the Northern Crater to Mideel, so he was infused with even more Lifestream at that time. Since Cloud has such a high level of Lifestream inside his body, it would make it easier for Cloud to "relate" to a spirit made of Lifestream as well as for Aerith's consciousness to live on inside of him. Remember, that's why Nomura says that Cloud's able to see her:

As for Cloud…he sees Aerith several times throughout the film. It’s not that he sees her because he feels her presence. He sees her because her consciousness…lives on inside him. ~Nomura; Distance Interview

Basically, there's a great amount of the stuff that Aerith's spirit is floating around in under the earth's surface inside of Cloud's body. Seems to me it would be sorta like putting a goldfish inside of a fish tank. :lol: Aerith's spirit can dive right into it. ^_^ Why don't the other adults see her?
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Quexinos
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Oh, okay. When you said their love can continue but their relationship can't, I thought you meant they couldn't have any sort of relationship now under any circumstances. Even people on the internet who only meet virtually can have relationships.

I meant that's what the phrase implied, not necessarily that that's what happened.

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With the phrase "A love that could never be." that gives the impression that the love is ending right there and not continuing, right?
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No, I don't

Posted Image

I think you meant no it doesn't. But anyway, if you honestly hear that phrase and think "Their love will continue!" then you're one in a million. Even the person who wrote to you on all experts said the phrase meant their relationship cannot continue. The majority of people who hear this assume it means the relationship cannot go on for whatever reason.

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If I *had* seen the commercial, however, I wouldn't expect a relationship to continue *UNLESS* she was able to appear as a ghost or spirit to him after her death.

But you see you don't know she can appear as a ghost. So you'd expect it not to continue as you said.

Quote:
 
So no, I didn't expect Cloud to be visited by Aerith spiritually until after I'd played the game and saw that the concept of the Lifestream made that idea possible.

Exactly.

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I guess we have two different ideas about what the phrase means. To me, the phrase "a love that could never be" implies that the love will continue in some way or another.

But you just said... that you didn't expect him to see... her...?

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Mako=Lifestream, so Cloud has a high level of Lifestream inside of his body. He also floated in the Lifestream from the Northern Crater to Mideel, so he was infused with even more Lifestream at that time. Since Cloud has such a high level of Lifestream inside his body, it would make it easier for Cloud to "relate" to a spirit made of Lifestream as well as for Aerith's consciousness to live on inside of him

I guess so, but I think the other adults could see Aerith, they were just never facing her.
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Shiva
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Quexinos
Oct 13 2010, 04:36 PM
I guess so, but I think the other adults could see Aerith, they were just never facing her.

I really don't think they could. If they were able to see her, then why wasn't that shown? She flew down out of the clouds during the battle with Bahamut and no one said, "Wow, did you see that? It was Aerith!" :lol: But, Cloud doesn't even mention it to anyone. I think he preferred to keep it to himself. And no one ever came up to him later and asked him about it. Surely, if they could see Cloud ascending toward Bahamut, they could have seen Aerith, too. She physically manifested right there.

Not only that, but the closest Tifa came to seeing Aerith was a water droplet. Don't you think that, since water symbolizes Aerith herself that, if Tifa could see Aerith, she would have? Yet, she doesn't. That tells me that, while Tifa is capable of sensing Aerith's presence, she cannot see her.

We all know that Cloud senses Aerith's presence. Heck, even Tifa can do that. But, Nomura specifically said that Cloud doesn't see Aerith because he senses her presence. In other words, Cloud doesn't see Aerith because he can do something others can also do. No, Nomura made Cloud special-- he sees Aerith because she lives on within him. And this was said about NO ONE else.
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Quexinos
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Well Cloud was in the middle of Terra Flare when she appeared, and it didn't disappear until after she boosted him upward. The group could only see the terra flare ... wait is it terra flare?... Ulta flare?... the flare thing... they could only see that. Not what was going on in the middle.

As for the ending, if you watch they're all looking at Cloud and the kids. Plus Kadaj sees Aerith when he's dying, you can tell he reached out to something and at that moment Cloud doesn't even seem to notice her.
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Anastar
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Quexinos
 
I meant that's what the phrase implied, not necessarily that that's what happened.

Then I guess the important thing to you is whether or not the commercial lied, while the important thing to me is whether or not their relationship can continue. :lol:

Who cares whether or not the commercial lied? If the commercial lied, it has no relevance to the plot or story.

Quex
 
But anyway, if you honestly hear that phrase and think "Their love will continue!" then you're one in a million.  Even the person who wrote to you on all experts said the phrase meant their relationship cannot continue.  The majority of people who hear this assume it means the relationship cannot go on for whatever reason.

No, I'm saying that hearing that phrase allows you to know that the relationship MIGHT continue IF the plot of the story allows for ghosts and/or spirits, since that same idea has been presented in countless other stories, poems, and movies.

Quex
 
But you see you don't know she can appear as a ghost.  So you'd expect it not to continue as you said.

But if you've seen that idea used in other stories, then you know that could potentially happen.

Quex
 
But you just said... that you didn't expect him to see... her...?

But I also knew it was possible, since I'd seen it happen in other stories.

Quex
 
I guess so, but I think the other adults could see Aerith, they were just never facing her.

Has SE stated that any other adults can see her? The only adult I've heard SE say can see Aerith is Cloud.

Quex
 
As for the ending, if you watch they're all looking at Cloud and the kids.

But none of them say anything to indicate that they see Aerith or Zack, so how do you know they do?

Quex
 
Plus Kadaj sees Aerith when he's dying, you can

I'll have to watch that part again before I make a final comment on it. Before I watch it, however, my first reaction is *of course* he can see her when he's dying. :lol:
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