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| Reminiscene Of Final Fantasy Vii; SE made me angry!!!! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 25 2009, 12:34 PM (1,269 Views) | |
| hikarukaze | May 25 2009, 12:34 PM Post #1 |
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This is what I'm talking about Reminiscene of Final Fantasy VII. Part 4/4 He stands in where Aerith stands in "Calling" and calls Tifa???? <_< Just like he met Aerith and she told him call Tifa, Denzel and Marlene I think. But I still don't like it!!! And they cut many "romance" part of Cloud and Aerith! How could they do that??? If they remake the story by this way, I don't want they remake the game anymore. They will make the game becomes something's stupid and hard to understand, hard to remember. And other parts: Reminiscene of Final Fantasy VII. Part 1/4 Reminiscene of Final Fantasy VII. Part 2/4 Reminiscene of Final Fantasy VII. Part 3/4 |
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| Anastar | May 25 2009, 02:23 PM Post #2 |
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
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Hold on... the same Reminiscence was released with ACC that was released with AC. FFG tells me that they are exactly the same. So what's the problem? ![]() Cloud does not call Tifa. She calls him. I think it's significant that it's midday and Cloud tells her that he only has one delivery left, yet he also tells her he won't be back to the Seventh Heaven until later. Notice that Cloud's standing at the edge of the flower field where Aerith was standing when he tells Tifa that. Then we see the flowers on his desk at the end of the movie. So logic says that Cloud went into the flower field to pick those flowers, right? Since he says he won't be back to the Seventh Heaven until later that day, then he prolly spent the rest of the afternoon in the flower field. What does that suggest? The other thing I like about this part of Reminiscence is the change that they made to Cloud words after the hand reach scene. Here it is in Reminiscence: ![]() Here it is in the original game: ![]() This is wonderful for two reasons. In the first place, Cloti's have always tried to tell us that the Japanese could be translated as ALL members of Avalanche finding Aerith there... not just Cloud. It's clear that SE made a re-translation, yet they still kept it as just Cloud saying that he alone would meet Aerith there. In the second place, SE also changed the translation so that Cloud says he will find Aerith there instead of "meet" Aerith there. I like that because the scene of Cloud's bike parked outside the flower field is shown immediately after the Final FMV of FFVII, when Cloud says he will find Aerith there. Then the flowers are shown on his desk. Doesn't that just imply that he *did* meet Aerith in the flower field? ![]() Anyway, this is no different than the Reminiscence shown with AC. I rather like it.
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| Iris | May 26 2009, 09:50 PM Post #3 |
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In Loving Memory
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Well if he is standing where Aerith was, couldn't that be saying he is with her? I don't think you could say he was in the exact spot was her's but from teh pov it gave you it definatly looked like he was there. And if Calling before didn't Cloud call Tifa, so it isn't exactly different except they took out Aerith. I'm disappointed because that was my favorite screenshot of Aerith more than she wasn't there, because I think she was. Why else would Cloud go to yellow flowers. As Nomura says in his interview (Interview) flowers symbolize Aerith so I believe it still has meaning Cloud being there.
I agree with the harder to remember because most of us here are used to the original and have many parts of it memorized. :rolleyes: But, harder to understand I wouldn't think so much because they butchered the dialogue when they translated it back in '97. Also, VIi was supposed to be a game you were supposed to interpret on your own and as you've noticed with the LTD and all confusions to the end, beginning, promised land, Sephiroth well everything SE might take it easy on us and clear up most of this. Also, if they remake it voices will be used and their body language will be easier displayed, so we can understand their feelings because tone and action makes up for much more than words.
I don't think it is too big of a difference except "find" could imply that if Cloud looked in the promised land Aerith would be there, where as meet seems to me that he would go there to see her. That could be a negative, unless you look at it as finding Aerith in the promised land could be if Cloud happened to go to his promised land Aerith would be there because she brings him extreme happiness. Wow, there is so much different interpretation for VII. :lol:
Oh, I guess it could be that way. Like I said above, I doubt Cloud would randomly go to a yellow flower field, or anyone for that matter unless he wasn't thinking of the *flower* girl. But I didn't see the timing exactly, good point! ![]() |
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| Anastar | May 27 2009, 07:47 AM Post #4 |
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
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Well, there's two problems with this. In the first place, Cloud wasn't where Aerith was standing when Cloud talked to Tifa. He's parked on the side of the road. ![]() ![]() So Cloud's parked on the side of the road. He may be on the outside of where Aerith was standing - but he's certainly not in the exact same spot as she was. In the second place, Cloud didn't call Tifa. Tifa called him. If you listen carefully, you can hear Cloud answer the phone when she calls.
Plus, Nomura also said in RF that they chose the flowers in Calling because they were the same color as the flowers in Aerith's Church. As to whether or not we can still infer from Safe and Sound that Cloud met Aerith, I think that topic should be discussed in the ACC Spoilers Forum.
Well, a remade game would be nothing like Reminiscence. In the first place, Reminiscence is just a series of clips from FFVII to remind you of the story. The entire story contained far more detail than they could show in Reminiscence. In the second place, the graphics were the same in Reminiscence as they were in FFVII, whereas the graphics would be greatly changed in a remake. Like KTR also pointed out, there would be voice actors instead of written subtitles. So I don't think you can really judge what a remake would be like on the basis of Reminiscence.
I just thought "find" made it much clearer that he didn't want to just stop by and say "hi", but he actually wanted to be with her. To me, using "find" sounds more like his intentions are similar to those of Yuna in FFX-2. It also made it clearer to me that he intended to find her when we knew that she was waiting in the flower field for him, as shown in Calling. But further discussion of that should take place in the ACC Spoilers Forum. |
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| hikarukaze | May 27 2009, 02:58 PM Post #5 |
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Is that so? Uhm... I thought there was somebody called Cloud and then, Cloud called Tifa.
Yeah. I'm agree with you! If he came back to 7th Haven right away, why should he chat with Tifa about "tomorrow" through the phone but not in "his home"? So maybe because of tifa tried hard so Cloud thinks about give back to her something. But before he does something like that, he would like to spend his time with the yellow-flowers with his "flower girl" but didn't tell Tifa about that to not let she down. I remembered that he had never tell Tifa about "his meeting" with Aerith after she died. But I think Tifa knew that Aerith is always with Cloud. The scence on the "new highwind" is clear for it.
Well... With me, both of "Meet" or "find" are so sweet. If it was "find", it would like as you said. But if it was "meet" as the original, I think it's nice, too. He wanted to meet her so bad. Even can't live with her together forever but see her face, hold her hand will make him happy and "go and find her" is something really is the most importand to him at that time, even he was holding Tifa. That's the reason why after I finished the FFVII original, I through that Aerith wasn't really dead, she was out there, somewhere and somehow, Cloud would came for her and they would be together forever.
In "Calling", I think Aerith knew that Cloud was coming, so maybe she came to near the road to waiting for him. They met each others at last.
I'm agree with you know. I think what SE tried to do is tell with the FFVIIAC & FFVIIACC watcher about the main story of FFVII Original.
I like that scence, too! She look so beautiful with the flowers. |
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| Sternenstaub | May 27 2009, 03:43 PM Post #6 |
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Hhm, the "find" and "meet" discussion reminds me, how I first played FFVII. You know, in german "the answer" comes with female article, so when I read "maybe I can find her there" in german, I thought he was talking about finding the answer in the promised land, instead of Aeris. Can you imagine how I went "WTF!!", when I saw the scene in english for the first time and realized he was talking about Aeris. So, I'd rather stick with "meet"...
I preferred the open interpretation of "somewhere and somehow" much more than what answers AC gives to that. It suggested something more yet beautifully undefined than the "she is dead but doesn't give a damn" thing potrayed in AC. So I just stick with this meaning and thought calling to be at least similiar in the sense of Cloud and Aerith implied meeting, without actually showing anything. So I wouldn't bother so much about when he does that and how. Reminiscences phone calls just show, that he keeps in contact with everyone now and how they grow closer together now as Cloud continues his life, yet at the same time there is still Aeris and she is part of that life. Ah, I just stick with what hikarukaze said and see AC as food for thought. The truth is "somehow and somewhere" the'll meet each other, doesn't need AC to depict that thought. enough rambling...I think, I got totally of topic... |
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| Shiva | May 27 2009, 04:23 PM Post #7 |
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Yeah, this is the same exact Reminiscence that was shown with the original AC. The only CloTi argument I have heard come from this was "Cloud takes a day off to spend with Tifa!!!" :rolleyes: Um, no. Is Cloud shown at Seventh Heaven? No. Actually, he is out riding around alone, still very much the lone-wolf type. During Reminiscence Cloud receives phone calls from his friends regarding a package he is to pick up from Barret for Marlene and Denzel. Cloud is shown at various locations, talking with his friends via cell phone and meeting up with Barret. Barret gives Cloud a present from Yuffie; it is a sign that says "Closed for Business". :lol: The last call Cloud receives is from Tifa. Here is the conversation with Tifa (you can only hear Cloud's part of the conversation): Cloud: "Yeah, it's me. All I've got left are the Midgar deliveries. Why, did a client come in? Tell them no. I'm taking tomorrow off. No reason. Hey, Tifa. Can you close the bar tomorrow? That was easy. Okay. Tell Denzel and Marlene. I'll see you later." So, how in the world does Cloud's convo=hawt date wit Teefz??? Cloud doesn't even treat Tifa like a love interest. In fact, in his conversation, he doesn't ask how she is doing, he doesn't ask her to go anywhere with him, nothing. I am completely at a loss trying to find anything romantic about this conversation.Yuffie is the one who gave Cloud the "Closed for Business" sign. Why in the world would Yuffie give Cloud a sign as a hint to close his business unless she was planning something with him that included herself? Does Yuffie even remotely sound like the kind of person to go, "OMG, here take this sign, close your business, and take Tifa on a date! *Giggle*" Hell no. So, logically, what makes more sense? Yuffie giving Cloud the sign to push him into taking Tifa and the kids out (when one of those kids is Barret's, therefore leaving one child's true father totally out of the loop)? Or Yuffie giving Cloud the sign as a hint to take the day off to spend with all of them (AVALANCHE)? Honestly, when did CloTis think that group picture seen after "Calling" was taken? Obviously, there was a get-together at some point. And Yuffie was always the one who complained that they didn't see each other much in the two years between FFVII and AC. So, doesn't it make sense that Yuffie would be the one to plan this reunion (no pun intended)? They probably all met up at Seventh Heaven, had a little party, and snapped the pic. Makes a hell of a lot more sense than Yuffie planning a blind date with Tifa and two kids, doesn't it? Another thing of interest is that, during Cloud's convo with Tifa, only his side of the phone conversation is heard. This is the only call of this kind during Reminiscence. So, what does this mean? Is this conversation being heard from a different POV than Cloud's? Obviously. But, whose POV is it? Since it takes place in the flower field, it is possible that this conversation is being listened to by Aerith, who is there with Cloud. |
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| Iris | May 28 2009, 06:58 PM Post #8 |
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In Loving Memory
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Oh what was wrong with that post of mine to start. It must have been late or something. :lol: Well, I meant he isn't in the exact same spot, but he is standing in the flowers, if we are looking from his pov. I'm saying why would Cloud be standing in yellow flowers. :rolleyes: and even if he happened to park by the road, why would he walk out into them? Enjoying the scenary...I think not.
I think what what hikarukaze was trying to say (correct me if i'm wrong ^.^') that she doesn't want the game redone if they are going to cut romantic parts of Clerith out, like how they excluded Aerith from Calling. If they redo FFVII it could add value to Clerith or take it away. Like you can see if Cloud's voice is more caring towards Aerith by his tone, or if he is cold acting. When we all played it was our imaginations and the little movement the showed during scenes to see if people were happy, sad, mad etc. If Clerith is intended to be canon, thent they will make it clear i'm sure, and if not we can still like the pairing, imo it's not about officiality. U_U
Yes, I agree Cloud never seems to tell Tifa anything about Aerith. Like in CoT he didn't tell Tifa about going to Aerith's church, or he didn't say right away he thought Denzel was brought to him by Aerith. Imo, during Calling he seemed busy and Yuffie at first had to push for Cloud to do their party or whatever happened.
Me too. I thought it was quite clear at the end of VII that Cloud wanted to "meet" or "find" Aerith, and then in AC he was longing for her. So why would it be a suprise he goes to flowers and Aerith happens to be there. I don't know what the Cloti's throw around that neglets the direct link of Cloud wanting to meet Aerith to him actually doing so. FFVII was, and continues to be a game of interpretion, but come on that one seemed like a freebie, imo. -_-
I know, I know!! Cluffie date fo sho. I'm sure the Cloti's heard Yuffie speaking of a date and always when Cloud acts romantically towards another women besides Tifa, the name is lost in translation so they just spit it out as Tifa, because that is the only logical answer. Haha, but the Cloti's forgot that there was never a single word spoken of a date, and Yuffie sounds the same in both English and Japanese I thought the party was clear, showing Yuffie being her sneaky self and planning something and the picture seemed like enough evidence. I'm sorry I still cannot find where it links to a date with Tifa. If anything the flowers seemed like an item from a date, and i'm pretty sure Tifa wasn't in the flower field, hmm but Aerith was seen in the original version of Calling. Can't retranslate an image can you Cloti's. :lol:
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| Anastar | May 29 2009, 08:29 AM Post #9 |
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
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hikarukaze
I think FFG explained it very well in her post. Cloud picked up a package from Yuffie at Barret's place. In that package was a "Closed for Business" sign. Now Cloud's asking Tifa to close the Seventh Heaven tomorrow. So it seems that Yuffie gave Cloud the sign to get him to close the Seventh Heaven for a day. Why? In the original Case of Tifa, Yuffie had complained that the members of Avalanche didn't see each other much in the two years between Final Fantasy VII and Advent Children. So, doesn't it make sense that Yuffie would want them to hold a reunion party? The picture on Cloud's desk near the end of the movie shows Avalanche all together, too. It's likely that the picture was taken at that reunion party. So Cloud seems to want Tifa to close the Seventh Heaven for a day coz Yuffie gave him the idea, not coz he came up with it on his own. I've heard Cloti's say that this shows Cloud wants to spend more time with his family. But all he says is to close the Seventh Heaven for one day, and that day is apparently spent with all of their friends. So why does that show he intends to spend more time with the family? That idea is also contradicted in DoC, where it's shown that Cloud's out on his own a lot of the time.
Well, in a sense they are together forever. Aerith is dead, yes, but her spirit lives on just like Sephiroth's spirit lives on. Furthermore, Nomura told us in Distance that Aerith's consciousness lives on inside of Cloud, which essentially means that Cloud and Aerith's spirits are united. In other words, Aerith will always be with him. ![]() As for finding or meeting Aerith, my impression was that we saw Cloud say in Reminiscence that he wanted to find her there. Then we see the final FMV of FFVII, and then we see Cloud's bike parked outside of the flower fields where we'd seen Aerith waiting during Calling. We also saw the flowers on his desk and many pictures of the flower field all over his desk. That said to me that Cloud had gone into the flower field, and we know that Aerith was there. Since Cloud had been able to see her in AC, why wouldn't he be able to see her now? So I got the definite feeling that he had spent time with her that day. So on that day, he actually found her - just like he said he wanted to at the end of FFVII. ![]()
That's exactly how I see it, too! ![]()
Yep. I think that's all that Reminiscence was for - to tell the main story of FFVII. Sternenstaub
"Dead but doesn't give a damn"? It's not that she doesn't give a damn. It's that she has the ability to do the things she does in AC because she is Cetra. That was explained in MoTP as well as in FFVII.
I agree. Cloud and Aerith meeting was heavily implied by Calling. I think they didn't actually show anything because they wanted to leave it up to interpretation what that meeting would be like. Clerith's would want to them to greet each other with a passionate embrace and kiss, but Cloti's would only stand for such a meeting if they just say hello and Cloud thanked her. :lol: So I think SE left it open to interpretation for that reason. FF_Goddess I love everything you said, and I totally agree! And you make a very good point in this paragraph, too:
Yep. You can hear the person talking to Cloud in the other phone calls, but you can't hear Tifa while he's talking to her. Why? It seems that someone's listening in on that phone call - and the most likely person would be Aerith. ![]() KissTheRain
Yep, I totally agree. I really doubt that Cloud's taken a sudden interest in horticulture. :lol: A reason was shown for him to be walking around in the flowers - and that was Aerith. Plus, he said at the end of FFVII that he wanted to meet her there, so it makes perfect sense that SE would end Cloud's story with Cloud meeting Aerith. After all, it mirrors the ending of the game.
Well, I think if SE intended to solve the Love Triangle, they would've done it with AC or ACC. I doubt they would go back and solve it in an FFVII remake. It's far more likely that they would leave it open to interpretation, just like the original game. |
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| Sternenstaub | May 29 2009, 09:29 PM Post #10 |
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I just think it's very lame, that despite being dead she can still show up everywhere, talk to the living, dissolve the enemies with a wave of her hand (well nearly) and even heal/save others from dying. It's like she is more powerful, than when she was still alive. And being dead is a so simple answer - FFVII said something else, it said "somehow and somewhere"=the promised land. It is nowhere stated that the promised land is a special place or status in death, actually it sounded like it was more than that, but AC reduces it again to "she is dead, but has special abilities because of her cetra heritage". That's a very easy answers compaired to the mystic (and romantic) open solution the game offered, I think. |
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| Iris | May 29 2009, 09:36 PM Post #11 |
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In Loving Memory
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Heehee, I bet if the Cloti's saw this, they would say he didn't ask Tifa on a date now because Aerith was there. But why would he care if Aerith heard if he wants Tifa. :rolleyes: I can imagine Aerith encouraging Cloud to spend time with his friends and not hanging around in a flower field all day, it must be the truth of Cloud being friendly...
Yeah, i'm gonna agree. Aerith is the protector of the planet and it is her soul duty to make sure her planet is alright. And same goes for her friends because you know she loves them more than anything. She really does go the extra mile though she seems more useful than any of the other Cetra's since Jenova came around. She stayed around until the whole Planet was safe by sending the whole lifestream to save the world, which has gotta take some work even for a Cetra, then once again in AC she stayed to save the planet and her friends again. And even more in MoTP and in CoL, Aerith is putting peoples souls to rest and curing their hatred. She even tried to cure Sephiroth, the man responisble for her murder and is trying to destroy the planet, because she is amazing. Wow, I know more why I like Aerith now. :lol:
Well, I do think they will make the game like the "original" game but if when they made VII back in 1997 they intended for Cloud to cry at some part we didn't see, or Aerith be snarkier in a part it would affect our views on the relationship because we couldn't be a clear interpretation. SE wouldn't change the story, and if they intended it Clerith, or if not, it will be more apparent I believe. But, I doubt VAing could change anyones views that much, so I know for sure the LTD will never stop. |
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| Anastar | May 31 2009, 02:09 PM Post #12 |
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
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Yes, FFVII basically left the message that Cloud would "somehow and somewhere" meet Aerith, but they gave an answer to that for us - primarily in AC, I think, although that same answer was arguably given in ACC. As for the Promised Land, I think FFVII gave a more definite answer for that in FFVII than "somehow and somewhere". As for Aerith showing up everywhere, talking to the living, and dissolving enemies with a wave of her hand - again, I think those abilities were presupposed in FFVII. For one thing, Sephiroth was able to do that, despite being dead. So why shouldn't Aerith? Sephiroth was also resurrecting his human body in the Northern Crater under the Materia Tree. Again, if he's able to do that, why can't Aerith? For another thing, Aerith was able to hear Ifalna in FFVII. Bugenhagen was able to hear the voices of the Ancients in the Forgotten City. Spirits of the Cetra spoke to Aerith at the Temple of the Ancients. Cloud heard Aerith calling him in the Forgotten City, although he was in the spiral-shaped house and she was in the Temple. After her death, Aerith summoned the Lifestream to defeat Meteor in FFVII. Marlene sensed Aerith's presence in FFVII as the Lifestream's wave approached Meteor. Aerith also appeared to Cloud during the hand reach scene in FFVII. IMO, the abilities that Aerith's shown to have in AC/ACC are presupposed and given in FFVII, as well. IMO, Nomura's statement in Distance that Aerith's consciousness lives on in Cloud is also presupposed in FFVII. It's said in FFVII that Cloud's body in Mako-enhanced, correct? Therefore, we know there are high concentrations of the Lifestream in Cloud's body. It's also said in FFVII that spirits return to the Lifestream. If Aerith's spirit has returned to the Lifestream, and there are high concentrations of the Lifestream in Cloud's body, then why shouldn't Aerith's consciousness be able to live on inside of Cloud? We also know that the consciousness of Cetra can live on for long periods of time from info given to us in FFVII. For one, the spirits of Cetra guarded the black materia in the Temple of Ancients for 100's of years and spoke to Aerith when Avalanche got there. Therefore, their consciousness had lived on for lengthy periods of time after their death. |
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| Beatrix | May 31 2009, 06:47 PM Post #13 |
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Actually, it was made canon that it is possible for her to come back in the living world throught clones... just like Sephiroth did with Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo. To be perfectly honest... I think they both have similar abilities... but because of his strong hatred... Sephiroth has the upper hand (in Case of Lifestream, Sephiroth is all like "You can't do anything, girl."... I think Aerith is strong but somehow, Sephiroth seems to be stronger or something... or maybe Aerith just tried to be careful when she met him... after all, he chased after her). Or maybe it's because Sephiroth knows the lifestream better than Aerith (he was in there longer than her) that he... for example, blocked Holy and Aerith didn't stop him by herself. Or maybe she didn't bother stopping him because she had another plan in mind (and she knew that it was too late for Holy to work... Red XIII knew it after all... and being in the lifetream, I guess Aerith has more knowledge than him about that)... using the lifestream. |
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| Anastar | May 31 2009, 10:54 PM Post #14 |
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
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Well, actually... I was talking about Sephiroth resurrecting himself in the Northern Crater during FFVII. By that, I meant that if Sephiroth's capable of resurrecting himself, then Aerith should be capable of resurrecting Cloud. ACC Spoilers However, it wasn't quite made canon that it's possible for her to come back in the living world through clones. She just wondered if she could do it. Here's from CoL:
So she was just wondering if she could do it. It wasn't stated that she actually could. End Spoilers
I think they have similar abilities, too, but I think so largely because the Cetra were able to defeat Jenova. If the Cetra were able to defeat Jenova, then Aerith's abilities should rival Sephiroth's.
But Aerith heard the Planet from the time she was a child, didn't she?
Well, Holy was too late because Meteor had gotten too close to impact by the time it got there. It was so late because Sephiroth had blocked Holy until Cloud defeated him. Holy wasn't too late when Aerith summoned it. I doubt Aerith would have bothered summoning Holy and letting herself get killed if it was too late. Sephiroth managed to block both Holy and Aerith by using his Will. That Will was partly Jenova, of course. Yet, Aerith's will was great enough to summon Holy and to call forth the Lifestream to defeat Meteor, which again shows rivaling abilities and strength of Will. In other words - yes, Sephiroth is ultimately stronger, but Aerith's strong enough to be a real pain in the ass to him. :lol: |
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| hikarukaze | Jun 1 2009, 04:17 AM Post #15 |
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We all know that wanted to meet and he thinks he could meet her again in the promiseland. But after the game, I just wonder where promiseland is. After finished the game, I searching for FFVIIAC because I wanted to know how Cloud find Aerith. But FFVII Ac's story just let me down. The story is nothing special, or I can say: "it's a bad story!". I only like its graphic and that's all. My friends said that: "The ending of FFVII original is perfect. It doesn't need FFVIIAC or FFVIIDOC." And I agree.
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But I think Tifa knew that Aerith is always with Cloud. The scence on the "new highwind" is clear for it.
That's the reason why after I finished the FFVII original, I through that Aerith wasn't really dead, she was out there, somewhere and somehow, Cloud would came for her and they would be together forever.

So, I'd rather stick with "meet"...
Cloud doesn't even treat Tifa like a love interest. In fact, in his conversation, he doesn't ask how she is doing, he doesn't ask her to go anywhere with him, nothing. I am completely at a loss trying to find anything romantic about this conversation.
It's not that she doesn't give a damn. It's that she has the ability to do the things she does in AC because she is Cetra. That was explained in MoTP as well as in FFVII.
And you make a very good point in this paragraph, too:
12:29 AM Jul 11