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Did Tifa Know The Real Cloud?; A new perpsective
Topic Started: Dec 29 2008, 05:18 PM (2,689 Views)
aerisbolt
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Beautiful Paradox
Aww Chibs, it's okay...I don't think you're bashing Tifa :huggle:

I honestly thought that when Tifa asked him to the well, it was first and foremost about maybe someone from her town having the potential of being a huge hero celebrity who happened to have a crush on her (I am pretty sure she knew, either by figuring it out herself or one of the other kids in town telling her) which like we all already said is understandable for a young girl at her age. Especially with the death of her mom, holding on to a fairytale ending makes even more sense to me.

Second, she might I thought a little bit about the fact that her next door neighbor was leaving, actually thought about the fact there was a chance something may happen to him, knew he had always liked her and therefore tried to make him feel good his last night in town. A kind of wow I never really knew this kid and he lived next door and always liked me, maybe I should take time to say goodbye

I would say the first factors outweigh the second possibility my a large margin, but I could see Tifa thinking that way.

And hey it wasn't a terrible idea, be nice to a boy who is leaving town which makes you feel like you are doing something nice and then maybe get a rugged, handsome hero a few years later in return. Pretty good thinking :lol:
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
Chibica
 
Ermm....again, I don't know why I feel like claiming that I DO NOT HATE TIFA AND THIS IS NOT BASHING PLZ, or some of her fan will gang up on me...*shivers*

I agree with aerisbolt... it don't think you're bashing Tifa, Chibs. To me, bashing a character means calling them something nasty like "a sleezy slut" or "un ugly old scumbag". I don't consider it bashing to make observations about how you interpret the motivations behind a character's actions.

Chibica
 
I'm not blame on her hero fancy..Everyone has their own fancy in youth, whether it sometimes is unrealistic.

Agreed. That's why I don't consider it bashing. It may be unrealistic, but it's not a terrible or evil thing to do - nor is it all that unusual. Lots of divorces happen as a result of unrealistic expectations.

Chibica
 
I just think it odd to ~suddenly~ aim at Cloud, because they were not even close when he made that promise. And...and I thought there should be more than one who left to become a Soldier, like Sephy?

It was never specified, but I didn't get the impression that any other boys from Nibelheim left to join SOLDIER. I thought Cloud was the only one.

aerisbolt
 
I honestly thought that when Tifa asked him to the well, it was first and foremost about maybe someone from her town having the potential of being a huge hero celebrity who happened to have a crush on her (I am pretty sure she knew, either by figuring it out herself or one of the other kids in town telling her) which like we all already said is understandable for a young girl at her age.

But it was Cloud who asked Tifa to the well. He thought she'd never even show up coz he thought she hated him - which is another reason I don't think they knew one another well as kids. If they were close friends, why would Cloud think that she hated him?

I think that also indicates that Tifa had no idea that Cloud had a crush on her before she went to the well. She *may* have caught on once he agreed to the Promise, although she had to force him into it. Heh, yeah... the Ultimania even says that she forced him into it. :lol:

For another thing, if she knew how he felt about her, why wouldn't she ask to correspond with him? She had the opportunity to ask while they were at the well. Was she waiting to see if his pic in the newspapers before she wrote? Let's make sure he's a hero before we bother getting in touch with him? :lol:
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Alan Bates
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That one guy
Cloud's good at a lot of thing.

The rescuing damsels in distress stuff, that's not exactly his strong point.
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Alantie
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Dreams the world far away
With Tifa pinning her hopes of a hero on Cloud- I never got the impression that any of the other boys had any such aspirations to be Soldiers or anything like that. Because Tifa says that all the boys are leaving, when Cloud tells her he's going. And then he singles himself out by saying he wants to join Soldier and become as great as Sephiroth. That's when she saw a chance at having a hero to rescue and protect her. None of the other boys were leaving for reasons like that.

I agree with aerisbolt and Aly, you aren't bashing Tifa, Chibica hun. :huggle:

Aly
 
Exactly. If they had a *close* relationship, it seems they would've corresponded with one another, especially if they had a love relationship of any kind.


*nods* Exactly. For someone she was supposedly so interested in, she doesn't even bother getting any way to contact him at all.

Alan
 
But you'll note that she does mention how she watched for news and information on what he did and what he was up to, which tends to paint her more as somebody that was loking for a hero rather than intrested in Cloud the person.


It is interesting. she bothers to look for his name in papers, but doesn't bother writing to him directly to get the info from the source. She wasn't interested in his struggles or his progress, only in the end result: a famous hero.
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aerisbolt
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Beautiful Paradox
Oh....opps! That is a big gaft on my part! :blush:

Erm okay I still think my overall idea would still hold though, that the boy that lived next door to her asked her to meet him by the well (and I think that Tifa knew of Cloud, as in he was a kid from her neighborhood and probably knew his mom in an aquaintance fashion, but Cloud was the outsider so he wasn't in there group) Now of course it could have just been that type of crush you get on the popular kid in school where you think he or she is really cute and seems so cool but is untouchable...or he could of had a few conversations with her in passing over the years and it meant more to him than to her...either way the point stands that they were not friends growing up.

I still think my originial second point could be a factor but of course I am only speculating and filling in gaps my own way.

I believe all of us who said that it was more about meeting a hero, being swept off her feet as the major motivating factor is dead on.

Sorry if my post doesn't make a lot of sense I am really tired.
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Song Lilly
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Hi :aeris:

I just wanted to point out, and I am sorry if this is waay off subject, but I just wanted to mention in Crisis Core, all of the First class SOLDIERs had HUGE fanclubs with merchandise, newsletters, ect... but anyway, what would it do for someones image if you were potentially the love interest of one of these first class SOLDIERs? Personally, I dont really think Tifa is that shallow... I just like to offer a different veiw point for the sake of discussion. Sorry if I offended anyone :blush:
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
Alantie
 
With Tifa pinning her hopes of a hero on Cloud- I never got the impression that any of the other boys had any such aspirations to be Soldiers or anything like that. Because Tifa says that all the boys are leaving, when Cloud tells her he's going. And then he singles himself out by saying he wants to join Soldier and become as great as Sephiroth. That's when she saw a chance at having a hero to rescue and protect her. None of the other boys were leaving for reasons like that.

That's the way I saw it, too, Alantie.

Alantie
 
*nods* Exactly. For someone she was supposedly so interested in, she doesn't even bother getting any way to contact him at all.

It seems even odder if they were supposedly in a love relationship of any kind. She was communicating by letter with that other guy, so why wouldn't she want to communicate by letter with her "boyfriend"?

Alan
 
But you'll note that she does mention how she watched for news and information on what he did and what he was up to, which tends to paint her more as somebody that was loking for a hero rather than intrested in Cloud the person.

This may be drawing a fine line, but I see it more like Tifa getting interested in Cloud once she learns that he may become a hero. It's sorta like a teeenage girl having no interest in her next door neighbor until he becomes the quarterback of her high school football team. It's not until he becomes the QB that she gets interested. That scenario gets played out all the time in movies, books, etc., and it happens in RL, too.

aerisbolt
 
and I think that Tifa knew of Cloud, as in he was a kid from her neighborhood and probably knew his mom in an aquaintance fashion, but Cloud was the outsider so he wasn't in there group

I agree, aerisbolt. Of course she knew who he was, but that doesn't mean they were close. I knew who everyone was in my high school, but there was a certain group that I hung out with and talked to all the time. There were plenty of other kids that I knew their names and that's about it. I saw them every day at school, but I never hung out with them. They went to the same school dances and parties that I did, but they never spent much time with me and my friends after school or on weekends. So I never knew them well at all. Seems to me it was the same with Tifa and Cloud.

Song Lilly
 
Personally, I dont really think Tifa is that shallow

I don't think it's because Tifa is shallow. I think it's because she's acting like a very typical teenager who's in the midst of figuring out what love is. Cripes, how old is she when she meets Cloud at the well - 13? How many prior boyfriends has she had? IMO, it's very unlikely for either Cloud or Tifa to know who they will love forever at that age.

=======
EDIT: I just found this interesting quote from the FFVII Ultimania Translations. I guess this was originally posted at ACF:

Quote:
 
Kalm Flashback
[ Tifa's Diary ]
Last night I read a book by a man called Mon Mos. It said that Mako energy was like the blood of the planet, and if we keep using it like we are now it'll shorten the life of the planet.

-----

I wonder if Wel, Dan, Meiday, and the other boys who left the village are doing alright?
All the boys left for the city. They all called me out to the water tower. They all said the same things.
Ah, except for Cloud. He said something about joining SOLDIER?

I wonder how long he's been thinking about that. He was always pretty distant from everyone else, but still worried about what everyone thought.
Honestly, he was kind of a strange kid. Always getting into fights. It wasn't like he was fighting because he was angry, more like he was testing something. What was he trying to test? His own strength?

-----

I thought about Cloud today.
When did he change?
I'm sure the boys started to hate Cloud when he was 8. He'd get into fights with anybody.
When Cloud was 8... I was 7. The year mom died. I don't remember much about that year. It's kind of a strange feeling, like being myself but at the same time not.
But even since then, it's felt like I've been obssessed with Mt. Nibel.

*Originally there was a diary in Tifa's room, and you were able find out what she thought about Cloud. Still, it shows an impressive display of Tifa's popularity, being called out to the water tower by everyone.

So other boys called her out to the water tower, too... not just Cloud. :lol: It's also stated there that Cloud was the only one who was leaving for SOLDIER.

Notice that Tifa calls him a strange kid who was always in fights, and that he was distant from everyone else? "Strange kid" certainly doesn't sound as if she had a crush on him, does it? Always distant from everyone else? That certainly doesn't sound as if she or anyone else knew him well.
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Pyra Kurai Akaidra
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Proud Yaoi Fan
Pfft, Meiday

Now that I'm not being stupidly amused by names (then again, there are weirder names in Square games), I remember seeing that before a long time ago. The part where Tifa called him a 'strange kid' sure reeks of childhood sweetheart love. As they're not that close or even 'officially friends', it shows how well (or not) Tifa knows him.
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Anastar
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Pyra Kurai Akaidra
 
The part where Tifa called him a 'strange kid' sure reeks of childhood sweetheart love. As they're not that close or even 'officially friends', it shows how well (or not) Tifa knows him.

I completely agree, Pyra. Calling him a "strange kid" does not indicate a love relationship of any kind. :lol:

Plus, you gotta consider that all these other boys were calling her out to the well, so it wasn't any big thing OR all the other boys had a crush on her, too! :lol: That letter from the other boy sure sounded like he had a crush on Tifa, too. She also says that all the other boys told her the same thing as Cloud, except that he was going to be a SOLDIER and they weren't. So - could that mean they all made a promise to her? :dunno:
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sessystalker
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Whenever you call me, I'll be waiting
Anastar
Jan 6 2009, 04:59 AM
She also says that all the other boys told her the same thing as Cloud, except that he was going to be a SOLDIER and they weren't. So - could that mean they all made a promise to her? :dunno:

I think she just meant that they all told her they were going away. What Cloud told her just stood out because he talks about joining SOLDIER and becoming a hero like Sephiroth. ^^;

That's an interesting find, tho! :o I would have never imagined all the boys called her out to the tower. Really, if you ask me, that kinda doesn't make Tifa and Cloud's meeting at the well really all that special. >_>
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Alantie
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Dreams the world far away
O.O Oh my. . . XD So ALL the boys asked Tifa to the well. :giggle: Makes it a lot less exclusive and special, eh? Not to mention that she refers to Cloud only as that strange kid, and the only thing that made him stand out to her was that he wanted to be a Soldier. Not to mention that this line:

Quote:
 
Ah, except for Cloud. He said something about joining SOLDIER?


He said something about Soldier? Was she not paying attention up until she heard that magic word? :lol: Ah, young love. :rolleyes:

And Song Lilly, I don't think that Tifa is shallow when she's an adult. As a young teenager/child, she was a typical young person and wrapped up in her own worries and ideals. Not necissarily shallow- just young and inexperianced with the world at large.
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Song Lilly
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Alantie
Jan 7 2009, 02:19 AM
And Song Lilly, I don't think that Tifa is shallow when she's an adult. As a young teenager/child, she was a typical young person and wrapped up in her own worries and ideals. Not necissarily shallow- just young and inexperianced with the world at large.

hehe, like I said... I dont think Tifa is shallow enough to gain attention for herself by using Cloud. I do think Tifa is... like you said, very young and unsure of what she wants.

alittle back on subject though... I just finished Crisis Core (a little teary, Zack grew on me :sad: ) but then it occured to me to rewatch "Last order-YouTube" but it confuses me because in CC, Tifa doesnt wake up when Cloud goes to her after she is injured by sephy.... but in LO, she does. and they talk about their promise. Personally, I think CC is more accurate, cause it follows VII better. You'd think Tifa would remember that Cloud already kept his promise. :unsure: I dont know though... I am just confused.
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Pyra Kurai Akaidra
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It's typically because LO wasn't recognise as canon, Song Lilly. LO changed parts of canon, where else CC stay mostly true (if we exclude Gackt Genesis, of course). Which is why, unless otherwise, most Cleris debaters doesn't use LO since it's not canon.
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Song Lilly
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Pyra Kurai Akaidra
Jan 7 2009, 11:00 PM
It's typically because LO wasn't recognise as canon, Song Lilly. LO changed parts of canon, where else CC stay mostly true (if we exclude Gackt Genesis, of course). Which is why, unless otherwise, most Cleris debaters doesn't use LO since it's not canon.

Ahhh I thought so, I just didnt want to assume. I watch it for the sexy cloud-ness anyway. :cloud: I do like CC better though.
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
Song Lilly
 
hehe, like I said... I dont think Tifa is shallow enough to gain attention for herself by using Cloud. I do think Tifa is... like you said, very young and unsure of what she wants.

I don't think any of us are claiming that Tifa's trying to gain attention for herself by using Cloud, nor do we think that Tifa's a shallow character. Far from it. We're just saying that she's not making realistic choices and that she's probably not seeing Cloud for what he truly is, since she's so young and since she doesn't know him very well.

That doesn't make her shallow. It's just very typical of most teenagers who've had little or no experience in love relationships.

Pyra Kurai Akaidra[/QUOTE
 
It's typically because LO wasn't recognise as canon, Song Lilly. LO changed parts of canon, where else CC stay mostly true (if we exclude Gackt Genesis, of course). Which is why, unless otherwise, most Cleris debaters doesn't use LO since it's not canon.

Exactly, Pyra.
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