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I Think I Liked It Better Before ...
Topic Started: Oct 5 2008, 10:35 PM (1,925 Views)
Alan Bates
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That one guy
With the additions and retcon and even miss translations, there's a lot theat's changed in Final Fantasy VII lore since the game we first played. With that, this is a little topic for the changes that we DON'T think were improvements. Feel free to rant on a little bit, but here's a few to start with.

Tseng lives. Him dying worked much better. In death, his character had a purpose as a high ranking and impressive Shinra employee AND as a long time aquantiance of Aeris that got cut down like he was nothing. By him living ... well, he doesn't really do anything else. He's just kinda there.

The Ancients not being from another world. As aliens they just seemed more special and more seperated from humanity. By them just being people that traveled around looking for the Promised Land and being spiritual they just lose a lot of that specialness. Let's face it, the last martian sounds a lot cooler than the last Amish.

Everything Cloud did, Zack did first. ... yeah. That just seemed lazy story telling.

Lucretia's and Hojo's relationship. Sheesh. We knew Hojo was a badguy, but I think they pushed it all a bit too far here. He did everything short of tying her to the railroad tracks while cackling and twisting his mustache around.

Somebody talking Sephiroth into going nuts. It worked better when he just sealed himself in the Shinra mansion, read a lot, and flipped out under his own assumptions rather than being convinced and goaded into it.

Okay. There's a start. Anybody else got anything?

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Drake Clawfang
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Rydia Fanboy
Um, a couple problems.

Quote:
 
Tseng lives.  Him dying worked much better.  In death, his character had a purpose as a high ranking and impressive Shinra employee AND as a long time aquantiance of Aeris that got cut down like he was nothing.  By him living ... well, he doesn't really do anything else.  He's just kinda there.


Tseng always lived, that was just a mistranslation of what Elena said. It was fixed on the PC version.

Quote:
 
The Ancients not being from another world.  As aliens they just seemed more special and more seperated from humanity.  By them just being people that traveled around looking for the Promised Land and being spiritual they just lose a lot of that specialness.  Let's face it, the last martian sounds a lot cooler than the last Amish.


When the hell were they aliens!?!? Jenova was an alien, not the Ancients! Does Ifalna look alien?

Quote:
 
Everything Cloud did, Zack did first.  ... yeah.  That just seemed lazy story telling.


They never mentioned a thing about Genesis or Angeal in VII. To me it's just like Star Wars Episode III: you know the ending but the build-up is fun.

Quote:
 
Lucretia's and Hojo's relationship.  Sheesh.  We knew Hojo was a badguy, but I think they pushed it all a bit too far here.  He did everything short of tying her to the railroad tracks while cackling and twisting his mustache around.


No comment, I haven't played DoC

Quote:
 
Somebody talking Sephiroth into going nuts.  It worked better when he just sealed himself in the Shinra mansion, read a lot, and flipped out under his own assumptions rather than being convinced and goaded into it. 


I actually prefer that. In the original game, Sephiroth read some badly misinformed research, misinterprets it and flips his lid. I think Genesis being there, filling his head with ideas that he's a genetic experiment and a monster, works better. But in general Sephiroth's turn to madness always seemed poorly conveyed to me.
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Alan Bates
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That one guy
Quote:
 

Tseng always lived, that was just a mistranslation of what Elena said. It was fixed on the PC version.

I said mistranslations where included, and frankly, that's a mistranslation I think worked better than the original.

Quote:
 
When the hell were they aliens!?!? Jenova was an alien, not the Ancients! Does Ifalna look alien?

Sephiroth refers to the Ancients as migrating in, settling the Planet, and moving on, and Aeris mentions makes another interesting note. In the Temple of the Ancients, Aeris mentions a creature you meet as the spirit of the Ancients that's been away from their planet for a long time to protect the temple.

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MistaCloudStrife
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"I'll cut them off" O.O
I liked how open ended the end of FFVII was when Cloud says he's going to find Aeris.

It's still very much open by what he meant by that, but after Advent Children and MotP the answers have been narrowed quite a bit.

In fact, alot of the loose ends in FFVII is what made FFVII such a great game even a long time after it's release. Finding those answers yourself and discussing theories is why FFVII stayed a major favorite between the hardcore fans.

If I were to list the things I'm unhappy about the new games or even the things they've altered, it would take me forever. BUT at the same time I'm glad that these games came out. FFVII has more depth now and I can't complain when I'm still eating it all up. FFVII Remake? Bring it on. :)
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Vixie
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Sicker than the rest
I could tolerate most of the changes and the new installments in the FFVII franchise up until Crisis Core, that pushed it a little. Especially with regards to Zack. I think SE mercilessly took advantage of the confusion surrounding the whole Cloud became Zack issue. I was never an enormous rabid Cloud fan, but I thought it was a little cheap that they've made it look like Cloud just copied Zack. Taking the lovely and amusing moments with Cloud and Aerith and giving them to Zack? Unforgivable! I was really looking forward to seeing them together and all I got was a lazy tribute to scenes I saw 10 years ago!

I didn't like the changes to the scenes where Sephiroth went mad either, they could have improved it a little by elaborating on his mindset, but to give someone who I considered a rather pale imitation of Sephiroth significance in his downfall annoyed me. I didn't like the ridiculous "suicide" in Last Order either. SE really seemed to take some of the defining moments of some legendary characters and cheapen them.

I didn't like the portrayal of Reno in Advent Children even though I may be in the minority here. Reno was responsible for bringing down the plate in Sector 7 and killing many many people in FFVII, and in AC he has suddenly become bumbling comic relief and is verging on being a good guy? Meh! I also wished Tseng had stayed dead, I didn't like him, he slapped Aerith and freaked me out. Besides, he served no purpose in the movie!

There are plenty of things I do like about the compilation however, and despite my moaning I've bought everything in it! Some of the characters worked really well, like Cissnei and Angeal. I was skeptical about Sephiroth being a good guy, yet I thought SE did a good job with making him almost likeable. I liked learning a little more about Vincent and Lucrecia's relationship in DOC, and despite the corny moments in the script I enjoyed learning more about Vincent too.
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Asuka
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Vixie
Oct 6 2008, 02:16 AM
I didn't like the changes to the scenes where Sephiroth went mad either, they could have improved it a little by elaborating on his mindset, but to give someone who I considered a rather pale imitation of Sephiroth significance in his downfall annoyed me.

I didn't like the portrayal of Reno in Advent Children even though I may be in the minority here. Reno was responsible for bringing down the plate in Sector 7 and killing many many people in FFVII, and in AC he has suddenly become bumbling comic relief and is verging on being a good guy? Meh! I also wished Tseng had stayed dead, I didn't like him, he slapped Aerith and freaked me out. Besides, he served no purpose in the movie!


I agree with you on those points.

Reno was a bumbling idiot in AC I remember when I first saw him I was like "What!? Reno's supposed to be thing sly, cunning, smart-arsed character and now he's acting like a moron"
Now you have his fan girls: "Reno's TEH SMEX but he's a bit dumb...", Reno was never hot in VII, he was stick thin and ugly :lol:
VII Reno was not the kind of guy you'd like to meet in a dark alleyway but now, with revolutionary technology and a personality change you would want to meet him in a dark alleyway.

I've liked Reno since first playing VII so I find it hard to dislike him even if he's had a change in looks and persona.

Rude's also a Mr. Chatter box in AC compared to VII.

Also with Tseng, yeah it would've been better if he had died (then he could've met Aerith in the life stream :3) because you never saw him after disk one and he was only there for a split second in AC. So he's pretty much useless now that Aerith's gone.

As for Sephiroth, they should've just left the way he went nuts how it was: 'Locking himself in Shinra mansion, read a lot, and flipped out under his own assumptions'
That way's far more better than someone bothering him into thinking those thoughts and it gives someone far more to rant about how stupid and wrong he was as well.
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FrizFroz
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Clerith/Cissnei fan
For me, regardless of whether I agree or not with the sequels and prequels and side stories and all, FF7 just keeps me hooked. Even if SE were to come out with some FF7: Return of the Cait Sith or something I'll just buy it first and think later.

okay I didnt play Last Order but I pretty muched covered AC, DoC and CC. Ya I agree, Tseng should have died and hence his story of the high profile Shinra turk and his purpose would come to a close. Him living means leaving a few ends untuck, and SE would have to find a way to incorporate him into the story again later. Or at least, inform us abt what in the world happened to him, whether he underwent a genetic metamorphism and became Jenova's husband, or married Elena and had 99 kids or something. I think they just left us to come up with our own stories and assume hes just continuing his office at Shinra. I wished they could have said more, though.

CC:
I hated how Cloud was so closely associated with Zack in CC. I mean like, I know hes his legacy and stuff, but he HAS his own personality and habits. However, I didnt mind that Zack went through some stuff tt Cloud did, though. It may seem like SE was lazy, but I kinda lol-ed when I realized the dude sleeping in the coffin under the Nibelheim mansion who freaked Zack out was Vincent - just as Cloud did several years later.

Was hoping that CC would shed better light into tt Sephiroth insanity thing, but it was kind of a weak reason still, with many vague points here and there. Him being a SOLDIER 1st class and all warrants more grit than others, no? In FF7 we knew tt he locked himself in the room and read the documents and went berserk and we were all left wondering what the hell happened in there. In CC it was given tt Genesis influenced Sephi to read the stuff and go bonkers. But whatever Genesis said, its still quite lame nonetheless. IMO not something tt would cause a former hero to descend to the depths of madness. Nevertheless, I agree with Genesis' role - Sephi does need someONE to DRIVE him to insanity, not just books - i only wished Genesis' speech was more maledicting and influential.

AC:
"VII Reno was not the kind of guy you'd like to meet in a dark alleyway but now, with revolutionary technology and a personality change you would want to meet him in a dark alleyway."

ya i agree XD. He REALLY changed, didnt he? Its kind of drastic how Cloud n him were such enemies in the past, and SUDDENLY they are all the best of pals. Yup, his bringing down the plate n causing a mass genocide in Sector 7 in FF7 seems widely at odds with his saving the kids frm the Bahamut-sin. Wiki posted a nice article on how he changed frm FF7 to AC, u could read those too. Tt said, I like the current Reno though, hes kind of cute =)

Rude is no longer silent to the point of being rude. He should have remained Rude, and stayed tt way.

DoC:
Though I didnt much liked the game, I thought Hojo should look the bad guy though, I agreed with their portrayal of him. His 'badness' can be seen in CC too, hes really nonplussed abt taking lives and experimenting with them aint it. Poor Lucrecia... (and Vincent)

No matter how many new FF7 twists I may disagree with, it doesnt stop them frm producing really epic games (excluding DoC) and their introduction and depiction of new characters were really well done - Angeal, Cissnei, Shelke etc etc.

P.S.: Anyone knows how old Vincent is!?!?



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Asuka
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O Hai!
FrizFroz
Oct 6 2008, 04:10 PM
P.S.: Anyone knows how old Vincent is!?!?

I read somewhere that he's in his late 50's. :blink:



Vincent's pretty hot for an old dude...
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Drake Clawfang
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Rydia Fanboy
Asuka
Oct 7 2008, 02:43 AM
FrizFroz
Oct 6 2008, 04:10 PM
P.S.: Anyone knows how old Vincent is!?!?

I read somewhere that he's in his late 50's. :blink:



Vincent's pretty hot for an old dude...

That counting or discounting the 30 years in the coffin? I think that about 20-30, sounds the right physical age for Vincent, by which I mean the age he was when he went to sleep.
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Asuka
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Drake Clawfang
Oct 7 2008, 03:01 AM
That counting or discounting the 30 years in the coffin? I think that about 20-30, sounds the right physical age for Vincent, by which I mean the age he was when he went to sleep.

I was counting the years he was in the coffin.

It says on most FF sites that he's about 27 (physical age) so I'm assuming that's how old he was when he went to sleep too.
Meaning his literal age would have to be around 57 years old (60 I suppose if you include the AC and DoC years).
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FrizFroz
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Clerith/Cissnei fan
man, tts really cool. I mean, you could have a kid at 25 and decide to go to sleep and 30 years down the road u'll wake up finding yourself younger than ur daughter/son XD I wish tt ol' Vince could teach me how lol
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Aerina
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Breathe.
Well it's certainly seems to of made Clerith less popular ever since the compilation. Alot of people seem to think that Zerith and Cloti are the actual pairings now, and judge everything that happens in the original game by whatever happens in the spin offs, even though the original game came out first, obviously.
Of course, I realise that a large majority of Clerith fans don't post their opinions online or arn't as vocal as the Cloti, but it's still a shame to see just how popular the Cloti fandom seems to be in the online world. Thank goodness for C x A forums :aeris:
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Asuka
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FrizFroz
Oct 7 2008, 10:37 AM
man, tts really cool. I mean, you could have a kid at 25 and decide to go to sleep and 30 years down the road u'll wake up finding yourself younger than ur daughter/son XD I wish tt ol' Vince could teach me how lol

Oh yeah, I bet some of the old folks wish they were Vincent. :lol:


Raven
 
Well it's certainly seems to of made Clerith less popular ever since the compilation. Alot of people seem to think that Zerith and Cloti are the actual pairings now, and judge everything that happens in the original game by whatever happens in the spin offs, even though the original game came out first, obviously.
Of course, I realise that a large majority of Clerith fans don't post their opinions online or arn't as vocal as the Cloti, but it's still a shame to see just how popular the Cloti fandom seems to be in the online world.


That's true, every where I go now people are CloTi, Zerith or closet CloTi 'Neutral'.
There is one Cleris fan who is very vocal about it all though, I see her comments on youtube alot and boy does she like to attack the CloTi/Zeris!
Damn you SE you ruined the Cleris fandom! *shakes fist*
But yeah thank god for CxA forums :cleris:


While I'm here, adding on to my Reno rant: I hate it how he's become such a good guy in AC now I mean, when did Reno and Rude ever want to help Cloud in the original? and why are they acting like the good guys now? as FrizFroz said, reno would never have stopped to help a kid in VII, don't get it...

Oh yes and as I said in the Zack bashing thread. CC has ruined pretty much all the (good enigmatic) characters...Sephiroth, Cloud, Zack...everything Cloud did Zack did before him I mean, how could Zack have met EVERYONE from the original that's impossible. urgh! :angry:
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Hikari Seishin
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Some kinda rabid...
Personally, I sorta agree. Maybe its cuz Im bitter, and can only watch AC and play DoC, and wont ever be able to play BC and CC (Havnt got the right consoles) But thats my bitterness to SE, putting all their new games on new UNAFFORDABLE consoles. But that might be different ^^;; As well as that, well...I like to think that its FFVII period. All these new ones, they make it more complicated, and as much as I love seeing the old characters, and getting nostalgic, I feel that there is only one FFVIII, nothing can build on it (Even if Clerith is becoming more and more the canon couple XD) Just my 2 cents tho.
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Vanelo
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One Emerged From Shadows Into Light
I think that's the reason why, out of all the compilation, I actually liked Dirge of Cerberus... compared to Advent Children, Last Order, and what I've seen of Crisis Core (*doesn't own a PSP*) it didn't mess with Cloud, Aeris, or the "core" story too much.

Oh, and as if Tseng and Reno weren't bad enough... howabout Rufus Shinra? The guy was a total cold-hearted jerk and merciless tyrant in FFVII, yet we're supposed to believe he's some sort of reformed philanthropist in Advent Children? He didn't even seem like the same person!! It's sad... he had so much villainous potential that could've been tapped into with the compilation, yet they brought him back as a goody two-shoes.
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