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What If Tifa Had Been The One To Die?
Topic Started: Aug 17 2008, 03:18 AM (1,215 Views)
Drake Clawfang
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Rydia Fanboy
I know there's a rumor that you can advert Aeris' death by being mean to Tifa, so she'll die instead, but that's hogwash.

In all seriousness, how do you think VII and Advent Children would have gone had Tifa died in Aeris' place? For better, or for worse?
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PinkWhiteLove
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Pink+White=Love
Honestly? I think Cloud would have been able to get over it a lot faster, being that he hardly knew Tifa at the time, and in all seriousness he didn't love her like he loved Aerith. If Cloud ever decided that he couldn't go on without Tifa, I'm sure that Aerith would be able to help him through such difficult times, because he still cared about Tifa, but to the extent he cared about Aerith? No. Cloud lost his soul mate, and he felt that he couldn't go on without her. I just don't believe that Tifa's death would ever carry out the same effect on him. He would be sad, but at the same time he would have his friends, plus Aerith to be there for him.

I'm not sure how Tifa's death scene would play out. I could see diving in front of a bullet to save Cloud or taking on Sephiroth all by herself, but I can't see her taking Aerith's place at the alter where Sephiroth had been planning to kill her himself if Cloud didn't kill her or when he just arrived. Either way, I just can't picture myself crying over her. Don't get me wrong, I love her and I am a fan. Anyhow, I can see her having a realistic death. Blood and all.
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Brother Carlo
Parishioner of the Eternal Light Church (Aeris' Church)
Oof...that's sensitive. I'm definitely not saying it's not worthy of our consideration, but we definitely need to choose our words carefully when replying to this.

I do agree, though, that a Tifa death, while undoubtedly tragic, wouldn't be nearly as tragic as the death we're all familiar with because it'd just set things up for a Cleris confession (no disrespect to Tifa fans, but that's just the way I see it.)
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Beatrix
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Indeed, a Tifa's death wouldn't be as tragic and useful as Aerith's death. Tifa has no powers, she has no connection with the planet, and Cloud wasn't close to her in the first disk ( well, even with the date mechanism thing, Cloud was closer to Aerith *hooray for canon scenes :bow: * ).
You can interprete that as you want : Cloud didn't feel any romantic feelings for Tifa anymore or he wasn't close to her because of his mess-up mind in the first disk ( but I don't believe it, not entirely at least, but if he forgot his "feelings" for Tifa during the first part of the game *that's one excuse made in Cloti*, I wonder why he ignored her and fell for Aerith instead, after all, erased memories or death cannot bury/kill the love of true soulmates *so if he loved Tifa before, he forgot, and when Aerith died, he never forgot her, never forgot his feelings for her either... which speaks for itself * ).

But anyway, I'm happy that Tifa is still alive. I just can't see her death being useful to the plot... just sad and unfortunate. Frankly, I don't want her to die either just because she rushed blindly into an enemy and failed to harm him : yes this is what she did in Crisis Core and Last Order, and this is the kind of death that she doesn't deserve... she has to accomplish something, she has to be heroic, save a friend.
But I don't want Tifa to die. Cloud has suffered so much because of Aerith's death, it's quite possible that he wanted Tifa by his side after that to not have a total breakdown ( but he had a breakdown in the end even if Tifa was willing to help him... I don't mean that Cloud needed Tifa romantically, but he needed her to take care of his life, if things went wrong, Tifa was there to fix everything, well, Tifa was like a mother in fact, Cloud was happy to have a home, but it was Tifa who took care of everything, Cloud wasn't so involved in a family life, he acted almost like a rebel teenager and Tifa noticed that in CoT... ), killing Tifa now would be crual.

And I don't want Yuffie to be the last female character alive in the story ( I like her but Tifa and Aerith are much more interesting and mature ).
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LeotheVirgo?
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It would have went down way better... Think about it, Cloud would still have his Aerith and they'd be really close and their love would go stronger............. :fangirl: This topic really makes your mind start thinking....ooooo If only Tifa had died... Oo

But on a serious note I don't think it would have meant much. I think it would be a random kill. Why would Sephy or anything/one else, for that matter kill Tifa? Why would Square Enix do it? I think it would have been better to keep Aerith in so we could see not only Aerith's and Cloud's love develop but also so we could see how Tifa copes with Cloud being in a relationship and see how she changes, if at all. Would she hit on him, or rather tell him how she feels? Would she try to kiss him? Would she be spiteful towards Aerith? (I doubt that) but I mean personally I would have loved to see her reacts and CxA's love in action but oh well I guess...

I'm off to write a fanfic about this now. You guys really do get me going :D
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PinkWhiteLove
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The most sure thing I can possibly say about Tifa dying is that it would be sad, but I don't believe it would have any impact on the game's storyline. She's not a Cetra, and obviously Sephiroth didn't see her as a big threat, just for that fact that Tifa isn't the one who died in the actual story. It would have an impact on fans, sure. Whereas, you know, Aerith's death as a Cetra makes her all the more powerful, and she's able to help Dyne in MotP. I'm not sure if Tifa would have the same capabilities as a regular person or just the her personality is. Also, if Aerith hadn't died and Tifa had, I think I could imagine Cloud progressing his relationship with Aerith in Advent Children and not angsting over Tifa. I just can't picture Cloud wanting to die just because Tifa died. Before first of all, when Cloud did think she was dead, he was just "sad." It wasn't til the second disc that he really got to know Tifa, and even then he was like, "But I still don't love you."

Aerith, just as herself, provides Cloud's character to either grow or shrink. I can't say that Tifa does the same.
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Vixie
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Sicker than the rest
Well, first off, if Tifa died instead of Aerith I wouldn't have been as gutted (sorry Tifa fans, just being honest) I believe death is the only reason Cloud and Aerith are not "together", and I would have loved to have seen their relationship blossom more in the game. I don't think it's fair to say that Cloud wouldn't have been devastated if Tifa died, he would feel he failed her, just like he did with Aerith, but I don't think it would have haunted him quite as much.

I wouldn't choose to change the game however. It just wouldn't have worked. Tifa would have no powers beyond death, as Aerith does, and Meteor would not have been stopped. Also, Tifa was vital in helping Cloud piece together his fragmented psyche, no one else could have done this. If Cloud hadn't have snapped out of his confusion I don't know if he could have defeated Sephiroth.

So in conclusion, it would be nice for us Clerith fans, but bad for the game!
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LeotheVirgo?
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I see what your saying about the not being devastated part but I don't think he would. I think he'll be annoyed and blame himself but not devastated. When Zack died he was...well...devastated...to say the least...You are right about the impact of Aerith's death thought. Maybe they could have achieve this impact some other way though :unsure: I want :cleris: fluff :'(
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Alan Bates
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That one guy
If Tifa died, Cloud wouldn't be as devastated, but it certainly wouldn't be a good thing either.

I'm not going to argue the hows and the whys, let's just assume that after the encounter at the City of Ancients, Aeris and Sephiroth both manage to walk away and for whatever reason, Tifa doesn't. Valiant sacrifice? Wrong place at the wrong time? Whatever. That part doesn't matter.

First let's tackle the big things. Would Aeris still be able to stop Meteor without being dead? Hard to say. Maybe. Doesn't seem likely though.

Tifa also played a major part in pulling together Cloud's fractured psyche. Without her, he's not nobody to really tell him that what he's thinking is wrong and help set him back on the right path. This also means he's probably not going to be able to shake Sephiroth's influence over him as easily.

Which brings up the next point. Do you really think Sephiroth is going to stop trying to kill Aeris just because the first time didn't work? From here on out, she's going to really have to be watching her back.

Then we come to one of the next major points in the game. Icicle Inn. If Aeris is still alive, she's bound to end up watching the video. Seeing her father getting killed and her self and her mother being abducted can't be healthy. I mean, it's not like she doesn't know it happened, but I can't see her reacting positively at all to watching it play out before her.

Then there's also the fact that Cloud is now the SOLE survivor of his town. At least with Tifa he wasn't the only one. Aeris could probably help him though that, but that's yet another problem ontop of all the old ones he's had. That's assuming he doesn't get the mentality that Sephiroth was just finishing a job he started long ago. Something that could add another chink in his armor.

The games not just about Cloud, Aeris, Tifa, and Sephiroth though.

What about Barret? Barret was very VERY quick to anger during the game. Having Sephiroth kill Tifa isn't going to sit well with him. You might have to actually hold him back from trying to get some payback later on. Keep in mind, this also means Barret is the only one left from the original AVALANCHE team now.

Then there's Marlene. Sure Marlene didn't effect the plot that much, but Tifa was practically a mother to her.

This also means no Orphanage later on, so who knows what ends up happening with Denzel.

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Beatrix
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If Aerith had lived and got together with Cloud... well, let's imagine that they saved the world but Tifa has died :

I don't see the problem with Marlene and Denzel. I don't really know who Tifa was to Marlene when the girl was younger ( how much time did they lived together before Cloud's arrival ? One thing for sure : Tifa wasn't careful with kids back then. She left Marlene all alone in the bar *and she was willing to ask Barrett to pay Cloud with the money he kept for Marlene's future studies :mad: , coming from Tifa, it's not just irresponsible, it's selfish... I hate this moment*. Marlene was just four years old !! )... but Marlene liked Aerith a lot. I can perfectly picture Aerith becoming a new mother for her, just like Tifa is in AC. Same thing for Denzel... however, maybe he would have not met Cloud near the church if Aerith was alive... or maybe he would have met Aerith first ( since she liked to take care of her flowers ).

Well, anyway, without Aerith death, the world would have been doomed, and same thing if Tifa had died ( well, because, Aerith can be everything to Cloud, she didn't know him as a child and that's the problem... Tifa was the only one able to help Cloud because she knew him *well, at least, she knew that he existed* when they were kids ). Like I said before... Tifa isn't the main heroine but because of one scene, because she knew Cloud as a kid, she's an essential character. But, I must say that she's only essential because Nomura killed Aerith and created Tifa with some part of Aerith.

It's simple : alive Aerith, Cloud's childhood friend Aerith = Tifa doesn't exist ( :ermm: oh... except for fanservice... but in that case : EWWWW !!! ). But I like the official story : tragedy, angsty Cloud, spiritual meanings, etc...
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PinkWhiteLove
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I feel that no matter what, Cloud and Aerith would have been able to still save the world, even if she hadn't died. It just all moreso depends on what Aerith can do as living Cetra. Yes, she's probably not as powerful as she is dead, but I think even without her abilities she would still be able to be the savior of Gaia alongside Cloud.

But, yes, just because Tifa's death may not have a deep effect on Cloud it doesn't mean that other characters won't feel the agony of losing somebody you care about. Barret, yeah, I could see feeling it the most. I can see the other characters holding him back later on, but I think with his responsibilties as Marlene's father, there's going to be that part of him that's holding himself back. But, you know, Aerith is still going to try to be there for Barret as much as she can. He may not be so accepting of her friendship at first, but he'd eventually come around.

And, I think Marlene could easily adopt the idea of Aerith being her mother, if not an older sister. As for for Denzel, it's a toss up. I think fates could allow him to still find Aerith and Cloud. Aerith has her maternal side as well, so I'm certian that she could also be a mother figure for the young boy, if not moreso than Tifa ever could be. It's not like Aerith would just turn him out. That's just not in her character.

Then, the whole Icicle Inn thing. Well, yeah. Of course, Aerith is going to have an emotional struggle right then and there. To have to relive the moment where she lost her parents, and see it playing out on a video, it's going to be sad for her. But, it's not Cloud isn't going to be there for her, just as she would be there for him if the situation were reversed. You know, he has a way of being selfless when it comes to her.

All in all, it depends on how you see the rest of the story panning out if Tifa were to die. Still, I think the problem here is when she's going to die in the story and what she would be doing.

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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
PinkWhiteLove
 
I feel that no matter what, Cloud and Aerith would have been able to still save the world, even if she hadn't died. It just all moreso depends on what Aerith can do as living Cetra. Yes, she's probably not as powerful as she is dead, but I think even without her abilities she would still be able to be the savior of Gaia alongside Cloud.

I agree, PWL. Sephiroth killed Aerith, not summoning Holy. As far as I know, dying isn't a requirement for summoning Holy. Sephy killed her because summoning Holy interfered with his plans to summon Meteor - but would Aerith have died otherwise?

So Aerith and Cloud would probably continue to be the saviors of Gaia. It's true that Aerith used her Cetra powers in death to aid the destruction of Meteor by summoning the Lifestream, and to cure Geostigma by casting Great Gospel in AC. But we don't really know what her powers were as a living Cetra, nor do we know whether she is capable of these things only in death. For all we know, she may have been able to do so as a living Cetra merely by communing with other Cetra spirits in the Forgotton City.

If Tifa were killed in the game, it would most likely have been a plot device to save Cloud. I could easily see Tifa sacrificing herself so that Cloud could live. That would fit in with the whole idea of Cloud's guilt in AC - being unable to save those who are close to him. If done in such a context, her death would have been as tragic as Zack's death in FFVII. Very honestly, though - I doubt it would have had the impact of Aerith's death.

Aerith's death is memorable because of her sacrifice for the world, as well as for its impact on Cloud. Aerith's Cetra spirit also had the capability of continuing to effect the safety of the Planet even in death, whereas that wouldn't have been possible for Tifa to do as a spirit.

As far as Cloud fully regaining his identity, that could have been accomplished much sooner in the plot if Tifa had only revealed it to Cloud in Disk One. :lol: She was aware of the discrepancies in his memory as early as Kalm, when Cloud told Avalanche about what had happened at the Nibelheim reactor.

I can easily see Aerith acting as a mother to both Marlene and Denzel. Aerith always got along easily with children, and Marlene grew attached to her very quickly. Even the children in AC who were able to sense her presence seemed to relate to her and trust her quite easily. It's very possible that Aerith would've started an orphanage, too.
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Aerith Gainsborough
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The Devil's Advocate
I think it would have mattered. Holy wasn't strong enough by itself to stop Meteor; so much so is clear at the end of the game when Aerith had to send the Lifestream to help combat it. I don't think Aerith would have been able to summon the Lifestream if she were still alive. She wasn't as close to the planet as she was in death. And being IN the Lifestream granted her a few special privileges she wasn't able to fully take advantage of when she was alive. It's true that being in the Forgotten City she could hear the planet more clearly, but throughout the game I remember that Aerith was having difficulty communicating with the planet. Even through the course of the game she was having difficulty grasping the fact the she was the last Cetra, that she was different. I believe that she knew she was going to die, and the fact that she knew she had to sacrifice herself to save the planet and the ones she loves is what finally made her able to fully accept her duty as a Cetra.

I think Cloud would have been just as devasted by Tifa's death though. I think he did care for Tifa, but as a sister or a close family member. And, well....Would you be any less sad if your brother/sister died than if your lover/boyfriend/husband died?

I'm sure Cloud would have reacted differently if Tifa was the one to take the fall, but it's difficult to judge grief when you haven't been in that person's shoes.

And on the whole "Tifa should have just told Cloud sooner" thing...I gotta say I don't really blame her. She didn't know what would happen. She was lost and confused, and you can't believe it was easy for her to decide whether to keep it to herself or to tell Cloud. It may seem like an easy thing to do, especially considering we know how it's going to turn out when she tells him, but at the time she didn't know. She didn't know things in the game that we knew. She thought she was doing the right thing because she didn't know what the heck was going on. I think Tifa should be cut a little slack on that.

For Denzel...I think Aerith would have been the older sister type. It's true that she would make an excellent mother to both Marlene and Denzel, but Marlene saw Aerith as a sister rather than a mother. I'm assuming that Aerith has a sort of sisterly air about her to younger kids. I'm kind of borrowing that thought from Crisis Core and the thief boy interaction.

In all honesty, I can see Aerith starting an orphanage. I can especially see her taking in all those children that we had seen at the end of AC. :D But I'm a little worried at how she'd sustain all those children on a salary selling flowers. o_O

And Aerith totally would have been able to cure the Geostigma. She did Great Gospel, didn't she? Well she could perform that when she was alive. I don't see any reason why she couldn't do it if she was still living in AC. As a matter of fact, it probably would've been cured a lot sooner if Aerith was alive.
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PinkWhiteLove
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I think there are more ways than just summoning Holy to stop the meteor. It is, after all, Final Fantasy. Besides, Aerith was still getting use to her powers as a Cetra and accepting who she was. Given the right amount of time, I firmly believe that she could have stopped meteor with or without the Lifestream. But, I won't start a war on that.

Aerith Gainsborough
 
I think he did care for Tifa, but as a sister or a close family member.

Eh, it's never set when in the game could possibly die, but I assume it's somewhere on the first disk, in which case I'd have to disagree with you. I don't think they were that close as a family or anything else on disk one. I mean, they were just getting to know each other during the events of the second disk. In any case, Cloud does care about Tifa on the first disk, but not as much until later. I think he cares about her as maybe just a friend or maybe for the mere fact that she's a human being.

Yeah, Cloud would still be sad over Tifa's death, but I don't think he would go as far guilt tripping himself, especially when he has Aerith to get him through such hard times. It's all about the different levels of grieving and I just don't think it would have the same tragic moments that Cloud has during AC. It would just be a different movie and Cloud's guilt level wouldn't be that high if you want to compare it to the guilt level over Aerith's death.

Aerith Gainsborough
 
But I'm a little worried at how she'd sustain all those children on a salary selling flowers. o_O

She could always sell Reno to the fangirls.
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
Aerith Gainsborough
 
Holy wasn't strong enough by itself to stop Meteor; so much so is clear at the end of the game when Aerith had to send the Lifestream to help combat it. I don't think Aerith would have been able to summon the Lifestream if she were still alive.

What I'm saying is that IF SE had chosen for Tifa to die, then I sincerely doubt that the game would remain exactly the same. Certain elements of the game would've been changed to suit the fact that Aerith was still alive. As a result, SE would've found another way for Aerith to stop Meteor, or they would've made it possible for her to summon the Lifestream while she was alive. After all, it's a *story*... so it can change according to whatever elements SE wants to portray.

In other words, SE most likely came up with the idea of having Aerith summon the force of the Lifestream to destroy Meteor because she was dead. If she were still alive, then the whole plot would have been altered.

They did something similar with AC. They wanted Sephiroth to appear in AC and fight Cloud, but they couldn't come up with a good reason for Sephy to appear until they came up with the idea of having Sephy appear once Kadaj found the remains of Jenova. The plot was adapted in order to suit what SE wanted to portray.
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