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| I Am Alone.... Tifa And Aeris Same Phrase; Cloud's reaction at this words | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 28 2007, 09:20 PM (2,537 Views) | |
| Anastar | Nov 23 2010, 07:54 PM Post #16 |
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
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I completely agree that Cloud's only thinking about being there for her, but also - I really doubt that he'd think of Aerith's mother being there for her because - at that point - he'd never experienced such a thing for himself. He wouldn't experience it until after Aerith died.
I always thought he only changed his words from "I" to "we" out of shyness, though.
Good comparison, Forty Six. He doesn't say that he's there for Tifa like he did with Aerith, does he? Instead, he only points out that BOTH of them are alone. And what Aerith said about being the only Cetra is sorta interesting, because Ifalna had been in the same situation. After all, Professor Gast wasn't Cetra, either. |
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| Jon Snow | Nov 24 2010, 12:40 AM Post #17 |
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khaleesi ♥
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Oh, I agree. I think his true feelings slipped up and he caught himself and said "we" instead to try and look "cool" I suppose. :lol: No matter the reason, he still said it ![]()
Exactly. :lol: Also, if he loved Tifa and was around her at that moment, how is he alone? Why would he say he's alone if his supposed love Tifa is right there next to him? |
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| AerisStrife | Nov 24 2010, 12:47 AM Post #18 |
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Member
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Ahaha. *applauds* Beautiful thread<3 Okay. Once you put this together the feelings are completely different. About tifa asking cloud if he loved her. I'm sure the he heard her correctly because he heard everything else correctly right? It's funny cause some Cloti's try to argue that when cloud said he loves marlene meant he said he loves tifa. But seriously. If you guys look at it cloud's a pretty honest guy to those he really cares about. Aerith for one. And Marlene too. When they were talking about Cloud's geostigma. He didn't try to hide it. Okay I'll leave now cause I don't make sense. |
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| Anastar | Nov 24 2010, 11:18 PM Post #19 |
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
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I completely agree. ![]()
Dubious doesn't mean that he may have heard her incorrectly. I know Cloti's say that in arguments, but that's not the meaning of the word. It means that you are doubtful about what someone is saying. From Dictionary.com: du·bi·ous –adjective 1. doubtful; marked by or occasioning doubt: a dubious reply. 2. of doubtful quality or propriety; questionable: a dubious compliment; a dubious transaction. 3. of uncertain outcome: in dubious battle. 4. wavering or hesitating in opinion; inclined to doubt. See? It means that his *opinion* is doubtful or that he's not certain how he feels. It doesn't mean that he's not sure what she said.
That's ridiculous. Why does loving Marlene means that he loves Tifa? I could just as easily say that if Barret says he loves Marlene that it also means that Barret loves Tifa. Besides, Cloud's love for Marlene is not romantic, so even if it *did* mean that he loves Tifa, it obviously doesn't mean in a romantic sense - maybe like a sister or mother, but not as a lover.
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| Jon Snow | Nov 28 2010, 12:59 AM Post #20 |
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khaleesi ♥
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So, Cloud's not sure if he loves Tifa? That's what that said? Interesting. And people wonder why they're not together in DoC or CoD.
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| *Aeris* | Nov 28 2010, 10:16 AM Post #21 |
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Mom
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One thing still confuses me. I mean all the signs are so clear that Cloud loves Aerith and does not love Tifa. He doesn't hate her, but likes her as a friend. Even that Highwind scene (high affection), in my opinion, proves that when Tifa opened her heart Cloud rejected her. Because when Tifa said "This day will never come again... So let me have this moment..." in my opinion that means that Tifa knows she won't be with Cloud like that anymore...ever. She wanted to be close to him now that she had the chance (they couldn't retutn to Highwind and sleep there).Of course CloTis say that they are not sure if they die in a battle and of course they fear that too. Anyway, my question is why do they think CloTi is canon? I have read about that article but I didn't quite get it. Is it really only about those pictures in Ultimania? I read posts about it here, but could someone clarify that, please? :) Wasn't there also a picture of Cloud and Aerith? http://thelifestream.net/ffvii-advent-chil...le-debate-over/ CloTis also say that someone has confirmed out loud that they are the true couple of FF7. Really? I don't think so, but that's what I hear. Is it that guy who wrote it? I'm sooo confused :angry: Here's an example. This person comments on Clerith videos (IamVendel) and her arguments are so stupid and wrong...and if you say something that could prove her wrong, she doesn't comment on that one anymore. AARGH! "Directly quoting the Ultimania is considered a "stupid argument" huh? Is that really the stance you want to take fird? That the creators are stupid? It wouldn't be the first time a shipper attacked an author because they didn't like the answer. I am not asking anyone to stop liking C/A or to start liking C/T. Just what is canon. And you should have the good sense to admit you are wrong. Or can you simply not enjoy C/A unless you think it has some basis? " So Ultimania really says that CloTi is canon? It is written there? :lol: Thanks! |
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| Anastar | Nov 28 2010, 04:36 PM Post #22 |
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
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Yes, although "dubious" is usually used in a negative sense rather than being uncertain. The way it's usually used is to mean "I doubt it" or "oh, c'mon... are you serious?".
In the first place, I wouldn't pay any attention to the article at Lifestream.net that you linked to. What the article uses as conclusive evidence is THIS SCAN. That scan *does* confirm that the High Affection version of the Highwind scene is romantic. However, it also specifies that the High Affection version of the Highwind scene is optional. I don't know about you, but whenever I debated with Cloti's, they always said that optional scenes couldn't be used as evidence because it was inconclusive. That is, they always said that until this scan came out. :lol: Anyway, if you look at the picture of the Highwind scene on that scan, there's a page number at the top: ![]() If you turn to page 232, it says this: Deviation - Two versions of the conversation before the final battle Prior to the final battle, the contents of the conversation between Cloud and Tifa can change depending on the degree of Tifa's affection. If the degree of affection is high, the contents of the two's conversation will involve deep subject matter and strong feelings for each other. As well, the sight of the two seen by their companions the next morning will lead to an embarrassing scene for Tifa, and she blushes greatly. ~page 232, Final Fantasy 20th Anniversary Ultimania It specifically says that Cloud and Tifa will show strong feelings for each other only if the affection level is high, and that there are two versions of the scene. The FFVII Ultimania Omega makes it clear that the Low Affection version of the Highwind scene is *not* romantic: Before the Final Battle (divergence): After stopping Hojo from going amuck, the conversation with Tifa before they rush into the Northern Crater diverges into two conditions, according to Tifa's affection rating with Cloud. When it gets low, the conversation in the scene that they spend the night will be apathetic and ends short. Next morning in the cockpit, Tifa says “Were you listening?” and stamps on tiptoe. On the other hand, when degree gets higher, the conversation of the scene that they spend the night will have strong emotions. Next morning in the cockpit, Tifa will say “Were you watching?” and feels terribly shy. ~page198, FFVII Ultimania Omega It says that when the affection level is low, the conversation between Cloud and Tifa is "apathetic and ends short". Look at what "apathetic" means: apathetic – adjective 1. having or showing little or no emotion: apathetic behavior. 2. not interested or concerned; indifferent or unresponsive: an apathetic audience. definition from Dictionary.com So the low affection version is *not* romantic.
I agree with the question of why there's a picture of Cloud and Aerith on the page if the page is confirming that Cloud and Tifa are the canon couple of FFVII. The heading of the page says talks about romantic love developing between the protagonists of Final Fantasy, and SE has stated that both Aerith and Tifa are heroines of FFVII. If SE wanted to declare Cloti canon, then why use a picture of the CloudxAerith date scene instead of the CloudxTifa date scene? For that matter, why discuss the Date scene at all on this page? If Cloud and Tifa became the canon couple of FFVII under the Highwind, then the date scene has no relevance at all. Furthermore, there's other contradictions. For example, if that scan means that Cloti became canon in FFVII under the Highwind, then why did Cloud tell Tifa at the end of the game that he wanted to meet Aerith? If Cloud loves Tifa, then why did he move into Aerith's Church before Advent Children/Complete when he thought he was dying? It seems to me that Cloud would want to spend the remaining days of his life with the woman he loves. If Cloti became canon in FFVII under the Highwind, then why did SE say that Aerith's Church is Cloud's Promised Land? It seems to me that Tifa and his family would be Cloud's Promised Land if Cloud truly loves Tifa. If Cloud made his love known to Tifa under the Highwind, then why does Tifa ask him in Case of Tifa if he loves her? Why does the 10th Anniversary Ultimania talk about Tifa's continuing jealousy of Aerith, even in Advent Children/Complete, if Cloud has made his love clear to Tifa? If Cloti became canon under the Highwind in FFVII, then why has there been so much merchandise produced by SE that makes CloudxAerith look like a canon couple instead of CloudxTifa? For example. the original design for the FFVII soundtrack was a picture of Cloud and Aerith by Amano: ![]() SE designed the FFVII International Game Disks with pictures of Cloud and Aerith, rather than Cloud and Tifa: ![]() SE's Final Fantasy S Generation soundtrack was released with pictures of Cloud and Aerith on the cover, not Cloud and Tifa: ![]() SE has released statuettes of Cloud and Aerith together, as well. For example, this statuette was released by SE after Final Fantasy VII: ![]() No statuette was released of Cloud and Tifa, yet SE typically releases statuettes of their canon couples, like this statuette of Squall and Rinoa released after FFVIII. After Advent Children Complete, SE also released this statuette of Cloud standing in Aerith's Church with her light shining on him: ![]() There's more evidence on THIS PAGE of my website, although my website will be moving soon.
Nope, that's false. No staff member has confirmed out loud that Cloud and Tifa are canon. Nomura even stated in an interview with Dorimaga magazine that he had no idea whether Cloud and Tifa were romantically involved after FFVII: A Final Fantasy VII fan interviewed Tetsuya Nomura for Dorimaga magazine and asked "How many girls has Sephiroth ever loved?". In reaction, Nomura spoke evasively in anticipation of more questions regarding Cloud and Tifa's love life, which have nothing to do with Sephiroth. Tetsuya Nomura: What kind of question is that? I've never thought about it. Honestly, I don't care who loves whom. I think you could imagine the scenerios that we don't mention however you want to. You could enjoy talking about that with friends. For example, I was frequently asked if there had been romantic relationship between Tifa and Cloud for two years, after FF7 ended, but I don't have any clue. See source HERE I've heard Cloti's say that this quote by Nojima says that Cloti is canon, but if you ask me, it sounds to me like he's actually saying that Cloud and Tifa are *wrong* for one another: Episode Tifa [Case of Tifa] ... first off, there's the premise that things won't go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same. I don't really intend to go on about my views on love or marriage or family (laughs). After ACC, I guess Denzel and Marlene could help them work it out. Maybe things would have gone well with Aerith, but I think there is a great burden from Aerith. Oh, I just remembered. I wanted to write Cloud as a person, seen through Tifa's eyes. But he really isn't the type to open up (laughs). ~Nojima, interview about On the Way to a Smile Another thread you might want to check is this one: Proof - Cloti's Not Canon We discussed most of the Cloti "evidence" there. ![]()
A couple doesn't have to be canon in order for me to love that couple. In fact, I think that idea is absurd. But no, Cloti is not canon. Cloti's just like to think so.
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| *Aeris* | Nov 28 2010, 07:29 PM Post #23 |
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Mom
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Anastar, thanks a lot! Everything's getting more clear now :) So, Highwind low affection version is actually the canon version? Like you said, why would Tifa and Cloud behave they way they do later on (AC/ACC etc.) if they confirmed their love to each other. So, let me get one thing straight...does is really mean that high affection version proves that Cloud confirmed his feelings for Tifa as well? I still cannot see that. It doesn't make any sense. I read that high affection analysis long ago by Perceivence and all the behaving etc. proves that things did not go romantically. Plus aren't there more chances to get low affection version than high? I mean if you ignore both girls and go on a date with Barret or Yuffie ![]() Nothing has been declared to be canon but yeah...if that stupid picture of Cloud and Tifa proves they are the main couple, then what about all those pictures with Aerith and Cloud :lol: Even I have a Cloud plushie where he is holding Aerith and I also have the original soundtrack with that picture by Amano x) Not to mention statues (don't own, but have seen). But anyway, thanks again :) |
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| Jon Snow | Nov 28 2010, 08:50 PM Post #24 |
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khaleesi ♥
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I agree. The line Tifa says the morning of the HA HW scene just... doesn't seem like they got done having sex or "confirming mutual" anything romantic. It just doesn't. ![]() Even if the HA HW scene is default/canon why don't either Coud or Tifa ever speak of that night ever again? Why does Tifa have to ask Cloud if he loves her only a short while after their "omigawdtruwub" confession? Why would Nomura outright say that Aerith's church is his promised land? If Cloud and Tifa supposedly confessed their "love" and had sex under the highwind, what's with the separate rooms? And like Aly said, what the hell is with Cloud telling Tifa that he wants to meet Aerith in his land of supreme happiness, especially if Cloud and Tifa supposedly confirmed their "love" for each other the night before? Ehh, sorry, doesn't make sense if you ask me. ![]()
If you ask me, the way Cloud and Tifa act around each other in newer installments prove that the low affection HW scene is the default/canon one. I mean, if they supposedly admited their love, why show doubt? Why show resentment and annoyance between the two? Why show Tifa jealous of Aerith(even though she's dead). Why tell viewers that: "there's the premise in Case of Tifa that things won't go well between Tifa and Cloud, and that even without Geostigma or Sephiroth this might be the same.."? Why do ANY of what SE has shown if Cloud and Tifa are supposedly so in love? But no, as far as we've seen, there's no default scene known for the HW. And supposedly, the HW scene isn't even spoken of in DISMANTLED monologue page or somethin' like that. Nor is it referenced to on this page: ![]() And that page is showing significant scenes from the game. To think if Cloud and Tifa confirmed their love under the highwind that it would be on this page. It's pretty kewl that the page is heavily showing Clourith scenes, though, huh? First, their destined meeting. Second, their magical date in the city of desire. Third, her death, in which Cloud conveys the most emotion he's ever shown. And fourth, the hand reach scene at the ending. That page of the Ultimania is so Clourith it almost hurts. :lol: So much for the HW scene being speshul, huh?
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| Quexinos | Nov 28 2010, 10:22 PM Post #25 |
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WOO HOO!
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Which Ultimania is that from Cali? |
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| Anastar | Nov 28 2010, 10:24 PM Post #26 |
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
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*Aeris*
No, the low affection version is not canon. I don't think either version is canon. I prefer to say that both versions are canon, though. In other words, either one of them *might* be true.
Well, there's no scene that actually *proves* that they aren't a couple, but there's no scene that proves they *are* a couple, either. But I agree - you have to wonder about things like why Cloud would move into Aerith's church when he's dying if Tifa is the woman he loves. My biggest question is, why don't we see a scene of Cloud and Tifa kissing in AC/ACC if they are the canon couple? SE had the perfect chance to show that one couple is canon during the movie, but they didn't do it.
The High Affection version doesn't seem romantic to me, either. However, SE said that the High Affection scene is romantic on that scan.
Nope. It's just as easy to get the High Affection version as it is to get the Low Affection version.
You're welcome! ![]() Forty Six & 2
I completely agree with you. None of that makes sense if Cloud and Tifa are the canon couple. Another thing is that Aerith calls Cloud her "koibito" in CoL White, too, which was written by Nojima. I also agree that nothing about the High Affection HW scene seems romantic to me, but hey - that's what SE said. Then again, is SE always correct? :lol:
Out of curiosity, what Ultimania is that scan from? ![]() Also out of curiosity, what date is shown? Someone's speaking in Japanese in the pic, so I'm not sure. And yes, it's neat that so many Clerith scenes are shown. The only Cloti pic I see is of the Promise scene. If the HW scene is supposedly so significant, then why isn't it shown? :lol: |
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| Jon Snow | Nov 28 2010, 10:24 PM Post #27 |
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khaleesi ♥
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I was told it's from the FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania. Saeki helped us with translations on it.
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| Quexinos | Nov 28 2010, 10:25 PM Post #28 |
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WOO HOO!
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JINX :lol: BTW it's Aerith's date, I see her name in Japanese.
Thought so, damn, I want that one... do you know where I can obtain it by chance? |
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| Jon Snow | Nov 28 2010, 10:30 PM Post #29 |
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khaleesi ♥
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Frick, yeah here's the translation. Translation done by Saeki: Top left : Cloud, come and rescue me okay? Top Middle : Are you okay? Top right : Aerith : I'm looking for you. Centre : FFVII has always been in our hearts ~ So yes, it's Aerith's date mentioned. And actually, Q, I remember getting that scan from either a photobucket account or some big image/book site. Lemme find it for you. :3
Exactly my point in bringin' this up. ![]() EDIT: Q, here's where you could buy it: http://www.animebooks.com/fifavii10anu.html But I can't seem to remember where it was I got the scan from. Sorry.
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| Quexinos | Nov 28 2010, 10:48 PM Post #30 |
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WOO HOO!
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Okay... can you buy it for me? ![]() ... okay maybe not. But thanks anyway, you don't have to go around looking for stuff for me, that's okay XD |
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I could just as easily say that if Barret says he loves Marlene that it also means that Barret loves Tifa. Besides, Cloud's love for Marlene is not romantic, so even if it *did* mean that he loves Tifa, it obviously doesn't mean in a romantic sense - maybe like a sister or mother, but not as a lover.









Then again, is SE always correct? :lol:
12:52 AM Jul 11