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Who are you voting for?
Democrats 15 (68.2%)
Republicans 7 (31.8%)
Total Votes: 22
U.S. Elections
Topic Started: Nov 6 2006, 01:33 AM (1,200 Views)
Bremic
Member
Well, if I could vote, id still go for Republicans. Sure they could've done things better in Iraq, but hey, least were not sitting here waiting to get nuked like if the Dems were in charge. Course that could all change soon... More to be written later.

Ok back. Well, you know why I want Republicans? I dont want to die. No one does. With the liberal's "cant we all get along?" attitude in the majority, we'd be playing right into the terrorist's hands.

Listen. If we want to finish Iraq, we need to stop being a police force and crack down. The more we tollerate them the more they'll attack us. If you want to be at all secure, and for the future of our country, vote Republican.
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goddess_in_pink07
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Ambrosia
Well, If I was able to vote (in...*counts on her fingers* 4 years I'll be able to!!11 WOOT) the republicans could count on my vote. Although, some of the stuff they do isn't the best choice, or smartest but......
BTW, Tuesday is voting day in Michigan for the new governor. (OMG, I LIVE IN MICHIGAN!!11) Our state is ranked last in employeement. Our present governor is doing a crappy-tacular job for our state, so its best we try someone new. Right now she's a Democrat, and her opponent is a Republican.
AND, OMG their's this law their trying to pass in my state that allows hunters to shoot Morning doves!! *gasp* Who would want to shoot a Morning Dove? When they make their soothing "cooooo cooooo" in the morning. (LOL, and for some strange reason they like to sit right in the middle of our drive way, and my dog enjoys watching them XD) I just hope it doesn't pass..... :worry: *waves her "don't shoot the Morning dove" banner*

I'm sure when the U.S. elects a new president, all the anti-Bush supporters *cough*Saddie*cough* are going to be celebrating. Personally, I'm kinda anxious to see who our next leader will be. Seems like Bush has been in office a long time, and I'm curious to know what plans and ideas the new leader will have... :whistle:
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Bremic
Member
Got a vid. Its the trailer for Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars. The war taking place in this game is similar to RL. Note the "threat indicator" at the start. But what I want you to see is the last quarter-half. THAT is how the war should be fought. None of this door-to-door crap.

Ownage.
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Sadhana
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capitalism is dead
I thought about making a topic for this, but decided against it. Since, however, someone else made one, I feel no problem weighing in with my own opinion.

I can't vote. I'm four months too young for this election. However, if I could, I would vote straight Democrat as every other registered voter in my immediate and extended family is voting (I'm far more political then my family, so they have minor influence in my political opinions-- it's more the other way around). I've done everything in my power to get more voters out there to vote Democrat: attended numerous protests and rallies, handed out pamplets against my district's incumbent Congressman, Peter King, wrote editorials for the newspaper, talked to every single one of my teachers about voting in this election.

Don't get me wrong... I don't like the Democrats. As a matter of fact, I abhore almost all politicians (Stewart/Colbert for 08! ;) ). But I think the Republicans are far worse, and this Congress has been nothing but a rubber stamp endorsement of the President. Why else would he have only used his veto ONCE in six years? And that was just this past summer, nonetheless, when even his own party members started to disagree with him.

I heard a projection that not only will the Democrats get the fifteen seats they need to control Congress, but they may get as many as 50. I can only hope, but God knows how this election will turn out with so much of the country voting with those Diebold machines. I'm not being a conspiracy theorist, but they haven't been used enough for me to trust them-- especially with the issues that have already arisen with them in early elections.

I digress... So why would I vote Democrat? Well, as our own leaked government documents have told us, the Iraq War has worsened worldwide terrorism. I'm pro-stem cell research, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, and pretty much against everything else the GOP stands for. I think having Bush in the Presidency is bad enough. We don't need a Congress that supports him too (yay for checks and balances!).

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Well, you know why I want Republicans? I dont want to die. No one does. With the liberal's "cant we all get along?" attitude in the majority, we'd be playing right into the terrorist's hands.

Listen. If we want to finish Iraq, we need to stop being a police force and crack down. The more we tollerate them the more they'll attack us. If you want to be at all secure, and for the future of our country, vote Republican.


Ah, I see that voting with fear is alive and well. Well, as I aforementioned, seeing as the Iraq War has strengthened the jihadist movement, I don't see how the Republicans are making us any safer. And my heart still beats for those 655,000 dead Iraqi civilians. Besides, I stick to the words of Benjamin Franklin on this issue. "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Saftey deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Smart guy. And yes, I believe that voting for the Republicans is giving up essential liberty.

So, since I can't vote, what am I going to be doing on election night? Going door to door in my neighborhood, and asking people if they've voted yet (yes, I am really doing this). Then I think I'll sit down in front of the TV, and watch a special live, conjoined edition of The Daily Show and The Colbert Report. :snack:

GIP
 
I'm sure when the U.S. elects a new president, all the anti-Bush supporters *cough*Saddie*cough* are going to be celebrating.

Oh, trust me, hun. I've already got the party plans drawn up and the helium tank for the balloons.

[Edit]: "I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent."

Hehe. I love "V for Vendetta" way too much (happy guy fawkes day, everyone!).
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Bremic
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Ah, I see that voting with fear is alive and well. Well, as I aforementioned, seeing as the Iraq War has strengthened the jihadist movement...


I see you like running from the truth. There is plenty of reason to be afraid. But what im saying is, yes, they may have gotten stronger, thats why we need to step it up over there. Thats why im planning on joining the military (USMC for life) and doing something constructive (funny term, I know). I dont see how holding up a sign and bashing Bush is helping anyone.

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I don't see how the Republicans are making us any safer.


Least we take the fight to them, not waiting for another 9/11.

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Hehe. I love "V for Vendetta"


Yeah, it was a good movie. Having you equating to to liberalism kinda ruined it for me, but oh well. I try to get my ideas from other places besides movies, btw.
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Sadhana
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capitalism is dead
Bremic
Nov 5 2006, 10:41 PM
I see you like running from the truth. There is plenty of reason to be afraid. But what im saying is, yes, they may have gotten stronger, thats why we need to step it up over there. Thats why im planning on joining the military (USMC for life) and doing something constructive (funny term, I know). I dont see how holding up a sign and bashing Bush is helping anyone.

Quite the contrary-- I comfront the truth. If that means bashing certain politicains for the mistakes they make and holding up signs, I'll do it. I don't care if it means that I sometimes have to cut school to do so, missing out on review for tests in AP classes and subsequently failing them (yep, that's happened). Until I can vote, I act within my rights as a citizen to just do anything. You may not think it makes a difference to protest, but if you were in Manhattan at the last protest I attended in October, you might think differently. When hundreds of thousands of people are with you, and you inspire people passing by enough to jump into the protest too (ten city blocks of cars doing the peace sign out their windows and an entire city bus full of people on their feet, cheering you on), I think it has some impact. Maybe we didn't make a difference to the politicians, but if it gets one single voter energized enough to go out there and cast their ballot on Tuesday, I've made a difference.

I'm glad that you're acting on your beliefs by joining the military (although I'd go to jail before doing so myself). Too many people talk and don't act. But if there was anything else I could possibly do to act on my opinions, what would that be?

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Least we take the fight to them, not waiting for another 9/11.

North Korea is a far greater threat to American safety than Iraq ever was (please don't take that as me saying we should invade them).

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Yeah, it was a good movie. Having you equating to to liberalism kinda ruined it for me, but oh well.

I'm sorry I ruined a great movie for you. That's life, eh? It's just too easy to equate a movie about anarchy, revolution, and violent protest to the political philosophy associated with change.

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I try to get my ideas from other places besides movies, btw.

I'm going to assume that this is your way of telling me that my ideas come from a movie like "V for Vendetta"? If not, I'm sorry for the assumption. If you are, then enjoy this rant.

I do not, by any stretch of the imagination, draw my philosophies of life or politics from something like a Hollywood blockbuster. Consider this instead: perhaps I love the movie so much because it appealed to the ideas I already had inside me. You know what sucked? After 9/11 and everyone I knew was suddenly a Bush supporter. When the Patirot Act passed, I understood at age 12 that people will give up their freedoms for the illusion of safety (I actually just wrote an editorial about this). What I loved about "V for Vendetta" was that it recognized this idea I already had inside of me for the past five years, an idea that was in the minority for a long time when Bush had a 91% approval rating.

I consider myself not very much of anything. I don't think I'm particularly intelligent, well-adjusted, a talented writer, a talented singer, or a good debater. But one thing that I know about myself is that I am well-versed with the world of politics. I know American History backwards and forwards, evident by the 5 I scored last year on the AP American History exam. For you to suggest that my political opinions are drawn from a form of entertainment is insulting. Every day, I read a myriad of political articles from newspapers across the country. Every day, I comfront the news from so many different angles: FOX, CNN, CSPAN, or even Comedy Central (although I pariticularly dislike FOX, it gives me a laugh). The conclusions I've made about politics are completely irrelevant to actors wearing masks. Believe it or not, I am very well-educated in American history and government. I would never assume where you get your ideas from, so please extend the same courtesy to me.

Goddess in Pink: I forgot to mention this in my last post. About celebrating Bush leaving the Presidency, I already have a calender for next year which has a daily countdown of how many days Bush has left in office. :whistle:
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Raist
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The Bringer of the Black Funeral
Before I begin I would like to add that I live in Australia and so clearly can't vote in this election. I also don't have much knowledge of many of the national issues involved in the debate. I will only speak on some international concerns in relation to this election.


Bremic



I see you like running from the truth. There is plenty of reason to be afraid. But what im saying is, yes, they may have gotten stronger, thats why we need to step it up over there. Thats why im planning on joining the military (USMC for life) and doing something constructive (funny term, I know). I dont see how holding up a sign and bashing Bush is helping anyone.

Without intending to offend you Bremic, it is opinions like these that seriously question my faith in democracy.

Firstly, the problem of fear is rather complex. There may or may not be serious concern over terrorist activity. I think inevitably they can do little to actually harm the western economic and political structure unless we allow it do so. In this case fear of terrorist activity is counter-productive and is exactly what all of the bombings over the past years has been targeting; disruption of the western world. If you speak of personal fear of actually being a victim in one of these attacks then your fear is somewhat more legitimate. But I have to ask why this is so much of a concern when being murdered or hitting a tree with your car isn't. The latter two are far more likely. The answer is rather simple, though. Terrorists and their activity is blown out of proportion to induce this fear to enable increased government powers and a mandate for further action. The prime example being Iraw. It seems to me that the defence department simply wanted Iraq for years. They found a malleable president, threw a little fear in the air and bam you have your war. A war that has become arguably worse than Vietnam I might add.

Your second point fails to fully grasp the notion of causality. Generally, if something has caused increased problems you will stop that action to stop the inflammation. This may in itself stop the problem, it may not. Perhaps, another tact should be tried. What's almost certain is that continuing to feed the flames won't suffocate it. The only example I can think of to the opposite is carbon dioxide and lime water. Originally the limewater goes from milky white to clear. When you add more CO2 it goes back to milky white (or the other way around I can't remember). But there is little to suggest that would be the case in Iraq. The longer the US stays and the more damage they do the more passionate becomes the resistance and the more followers they get. What do you suggest? Full blown bombing and torture methods etc? Have you ever heard of the French/Algerian war? The French thought torture was the best way to get information out of prisoners. The insult to the Algerians was so great that the French were overwhelmed. They lost sight of why they were fighting and the Algerians didn't. Yet another war that the underdog never should have won. Secondly, do you have any idea how expensive, time consuming and difficult infrastructure is to replace? The more infrastructure you remove the less incentive there is to stay in the country. You'll start to see refugees enmasse and a lot more pissed off resistance fighters. Watch the casualties rise and the success of the campaign destroyed.

Further, US forces do not receive the appropriate training for the type of war this is. Covert tactics and unopen warfare are required when dealing with uncertain enemies. Why do you think the SAS and Green Berets are the first to enter the US led campaigns? They clear many of the important areas and open up the land to the hulking US military force that is not suited to the task it needs to provide. It needs to start diversifying its military force or it will continue to struggle.

I do however, agree that simply bashing Bush isn't going to solve any problems now. In the past it may have helped to put some pressure on him to make some better decicions - or at least those around him to do so - but now this is rather pointless. What can be done is to vote for the Democrats in the next election. I don't hold favour to either party but at the least we need to try something different than the consantly inflaming approach.

Least we take the fight to them, not waiting for another 9/11.

Unfortunately, you still seem to be missing the point. There can be no fight. You can't simply destroy terrorists except perhaps by taking out the entire Middle East, something that isn't feasible and quite possibly wouldn't work, anyway. Covert and guerilla fighters can't simply have the 'fight taken to them'. The real issue at heart here is increasing capitalism and its problems. Westernisation is threatening these people and they're reacting in the manner they feel will be successful. Integration needs to be considered and tested rather than the continued knee-jerk reaction which is continually used to satiate conservatives and voters. Lastly, to suggest that the Democrats would simply wait around and do nothing is an ad hominem that doesn't have a place in debates. It has a place in politics, something I am frustrated with everyday.



Just a quick personal opinion on V for Vendetta. Just another slapdash comment on the failings of democracy and modern government with some action thrown in. Yet another movie that fails to show some real insight and seriously consider some solutions and problems.

Thanks!
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Bremic
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But if there was anything else I could possibly do to act on my opinions, what would that be?


I guess only you could answer that.

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I would never assume where you get your ideas from, so please extend the same courtesy to me.


Yeah, I figured youd say that. Guess im sorry. But thats the way ive been treated by other liberals, before I met the intelligent ones like yourself. There was this one kid I was arguing with once, I beat him, so he threw a hissy-fit and deleted the entire argument. But man, he was insane. No quarter given. Constant name calling and the like. You rarely come across "courtesy" in these types of arguments. You know how Ghandi said "I would have been a christian had it not been for christians?" I guess you could say the same about me and liberals. My problem is, from my past encounters, you cant be nice to your opponent. Goddess says you and her are pseudo-friends. I wish I could be the same way, but I just... cant.

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I think inevitably they can do little to actually harm the western economic and political structure unless we allow it do so.


They can do damage on a massive scale if they are allowed. Think about it. Ever since 9/11 our borders have still remained inexcusably porous. If the price was right, the criminal gangs that smuggle drugs and immigrants into this country could bring across nuclear devices, and deliver them to terrorist cells located inside the U.S.. It would be relatively simple to do. Most of those devices and their components are small and can be snuck in by shipping containers. These bombs do not even need to be large "city busters." A relatively small yield of twenty kilotons could cause catastrophic results in our major cities such as New York, Washington, Detroit, Seattle, Los Angeles, Chicago, Atlanta, Houston, New Orleans, and Miami.

Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans would be killed in an instant, with a much larger number horridly wounded. Beyond the human loss, there is our infrastructure. An attack of that size would cripple the nation's government, economy, ability to rebuild, and to strike back at our enemies. If a bomb were set off in front of the Library on Congress, it would destroy the Capitol and Supreme Court, pulverize government offices, including the Department of Health and Human Services (which is crucial to emergency actions), and kill many vital government members, such as the cabinet, senators and congressmen. The President, if he survived, would be rushed to an undisclosed location. At once our capital would be abandoned. Many other cities aforementioned are critical for our communications and news media, like New York, or gateways and ports to other parts of the world, such as Los Angeles and Miami.

Say once Americans understood what happened, we would still not know how it happened or who conducted the strike. If after some time we found out that, say, al-Qaeda was the culprit, what would our response be? Invade the countries where they are headquartered? Would we request extradition? What if we discovered that Iran had a hand in this? Would we decide against an all-out attack out of concern for the innocent Iranians behind whom their government would be hiding?

No matter how we would react, there would be no guarantee our allies would support us. Out of fear for having nukes located in their own cities, they could declare neutrality and deny us any form of support.

The whole matter of revenge is something to consider also. After 9/11 there was concern that the U.S. would "go Roman." Would the United States do to Afghanistan what Rome did to Carthage? As the events proved, the U.S. is not set in the Roman mold, and Bush did not begin a campaign of utter extermination in Afghanistan.

But know that if nuclear weapons are exploded on American soil, I support the whole idea of "going Roman." With many of our major cities shattered and millions of Americans dead or dying, a President who would not retaliate in some form would not remain President for long. The results of an all-out American counterattack would be profound: the deaths of perhaps tens of millions, the shock and distrust of our allies, and a dividing line in politics as that of the Civil War.

I present this scenario as a warning of the consequences of inaction and appeasement against global terrorist organizations, most largely the "Web of Terror," whose countries consist of Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea, and Libya. Out of these the U.S. has already changed two forcibly. If we act now, we can destroy the Web of Terror using less destructive methods. The alternative is to sit back, trust in the good intentions of those regimes who stated goal is our destruction, and be left with revenge as our only option.

I also present this scenario for another reason. Critics might call it "cowboy justice" or "international vigilantism." They might even call it "mass murder." But it is what would happen. Do I take perverse pleasure in the thought of all this? Far from it. That is why I am writing this.

In conclusion, I will pose this question to both of you. Hoping that you understand that all of this is a very real possibility, what do you and your parties plan to do about it? What is your solution? Backing out completely at this point is not an option. Were too knee-deep in this. But tell me, what is your plan?

By the way, just to clear a few things. I’m all for letting people have their rights. None of my ideas say they shouldn’t. Also im not Bush's biggest fan, but I do believe he was a better choice than Gore or Kerry.
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Rinchan
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This is a tough question for me. My political views are libertarian and we all know how often they get elected into office. I could probably vote for a libertarian candidate for a smaller office but as far as presidential elections go, I'm not so sure since I would be basically be throwing my vote away.

I'll probably look to see which candidate I like better and decide then since I'll be gaining and losing with either one I vote for. If I absolutely despise both R and D candidates then MAYBE I'll vote libertarian since I don't want to vote for someone I absolutely don't like.

I'm so glad I was 8 days too young for the last election.
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Bremic
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Posted Image

By the way, just to clear a few things. I’m all for letting people have their rights. None of my ideas say they shouldn’t. Also im not Bush's biggest fan, but I do believe he was a better choice than Gore or Kerry.

Hey everyone, some last few things to say before you hit the poles tomorrow. I saw this touching piece, and thought you should see it...

"To all potential voters:
I am a concerned senior citizen. When President Clinton was in office, I had a nice house, a good job with many benefits, health insurance and even 2 vacation homes. In short, things were good. Since President Bush has been in office, I have lost my job and my health insurance. I have also lost 2 sons in Iraq. To add insult to injury I am now homeless and have lost everything I once had. I and we must be willing to do whatever John Kerry asks us to do. We must remove President Bush and get a Democrat back in the White House. Please consider my compelling personal story and vote John Kerry come election day.
Sincerely,
Saddam Hussein"

I want to let everyone know that the Iraq war was not about subjugating the Iraqi people, the destruction of Iraq's national identity, or the eradication of the Iraqi culture. It was about ousting a dictator who sponsored terrorism, pursued (and had used in the past) weapons of mass destruction*, enslaved the Iraqi people, and bent Iraq's national identity and culture to his own ends.

*Contrary to what some think, WMDs are not strictly nuclear devices. These also count for biological weaponry, which Hussein had used numerous times on his own people.

One last thing as well... why I fight. It’s a question I ask myself a lot, and I pondered it much today. You know what I believe? If liberals gain complete control, I feel my rights will be at much larger risk than Sadhana's "V for Vendetta" theory. Why? I’ve watched debates a long time, and I notice that liberals and democrats have a tendency to be extremely unforgiving to anyone who opposes their views. You want to hear something scary? In 2003, same-sex marriage was made legal in Canada. On top of that, you can be put in jail for speaking out against these couples and their way of life, as a preacher was some time ago. This is exactly what many liberals (not all, mind you) want here in the U.S.. Now, I don’t know about you, but thats a little messed up. That, my friends, is the reason I pursue my ideas so vigorously. I don’t want my children growing up in a place like that, and im sure neither do any of you. I have been put through the grinder by many people for my views, and I don’t regret any of it. Thank you for your time.
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Andina
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You wanna hear something scary? In 2003, same-sex marriage was made legal in Canada. On top of that, you can be put in jail for speaking out against these couples and their way of life, as a preacher was some time ago. This is exactly what many liberals (not all, mind you) want here in the U.S.. Now, I dont know about you, but thats a little messed up. That, my friends, is the reason I pursue my ideas so vigorously. I dont want my children growing up in a place like that, and im sure neither do any of you.


Is this person afraid/intimidated by same-sex marriages or the possibility that he and his children might not be allowed to oppose gay couples and alternative lifestyles in general in public? Or perhaps bit of both?

Overall this little letter (or whatever it was) creates mixed feelings in me. One part of me can understand that he wants to live in his own perfect world but then again it's people like him that make the lives of so many oh so difficult.

Well, for me that post did absolutely nothing, but I am not from USA anyway and we all know you people tend to be quite patriotic, some might even say bit too patriotic in some cases which blinds you somewhat in certain matters.
Post a picture of some random young soldier, add the American flag there somewhere, then few touching words and that will be your perfect recipe for the American people. :P

Oh, and for the record for those who did not figure it out, if I could vote in these elections I would have to give my vote to the democrats even though I do not really support them either in everything. Politicians, no matter what party they are from can just be so incredibly twisted sometimes.
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Bremic
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Is this person afraid/intimidated by same-sex marriages or the possibility that he and his children might not be allowed to oppose gay couples and alternative lifestyles in general in public? Or perhaps bit of both?


Im saying the whole thought of being imprisoned for expressing your views troubles me.

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One part of me can understand that he wants to live in his own perfect world but then again it's people like him that make the lives of so many oh so difficult.


No one said anything about a "perfect world." I know the world will never be "perfect" by anyone's standards, so I kinda dont know where you got that from.

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we all know you people tend to be quite patriotic, some might even say bit too patriotic in some cases which blinds you somewhat in certain matters.


Well, makes sense since your country, wherever you are, is most likely not threatened by destruction from terrorists. Nor were you attacked in a way in which 3000 of your citizens were killed. Then again, I dont know where your from.

By the way, this isnt anyone else's words, these are mine.
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Sadhana
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capitalism is dead
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Post a picture of some random young soldier, add the American flag there somewhere, then few touching words and that will be your perfect recipe for the American people.

While I think that's really true and pretty funny, don't forget that there are Americans out there like me who aren't this nationalistic. ;)

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Im saying the whole thought of being imprisoned for expressing your views troubles me.


But Canada's been like this about other things. Their hate propoganda law kind of vetos freedom of speech and religion, so it's not that these Canadians might be charged for saying hateful, prejudiced things only in regards to gays. They're just adding homosexuality to their anti-bias laws (I'm not Canadian, so anyone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

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I want to let everyone know that the Iraq war was not about subjugating the Iraqi people, the destruction of Iraq's national identity, or the eradication of the Iraqi culture. It was about ousting a dictator who sponsored terrorism, pursued (and had used in the past) weapons of mass destruction*, enslaved the Iraqi people, and bent Iraq's national identity and culture to his own ends.

*Contrary to what some think, WMDs are not strictly nuclear devices. These also count for biological weaponry, which Hussein had used numerous times on his own people.

Of course, the knurls of democracy and freedom in our American hearts bleed for the oil-pumped country of Iraq. Yet the government-sponsored genocide in Darfur (with as many casualties as Saddam's rein but in a shorter amount of time) doesn't matter quite as much. ^_~
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Bremic
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Of course, the knurls of democracy and freedom in our American hearts bleed for the oil-pumped country of Iraq. Yet the government-sponsored genocide in Darfur (with as many casualties as Saddam's rein but in a shorter amount of time) doesn't matter quite as much. ^_~


LOL, oil. I laugh so hard when this is brought up. Yeah, I know, im just seeing 99 cent a gallon gas everywhere.

Yeah, Darfur kinda sucks, doesnt it? Hey, im not in charge. If I could say anything in defense of that, its not directly connected to the Web of Terror. Also the U.S. is kinda busy with other things (Iraq). While the U.N. could do something, world events has got that whole organization shakin in their boots. Btw, im still waiting for your Iraq policy...

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While I think that's really true and pretty funny, don't forget that there are Americans out there like me who aren't this nationalistic.


Why I take that as a compliment! Guess I just love my country...
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Miss Yukari
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Bremic
 
With the liberal's "cant we all get along?" attitude in the majority, we'd be playing right into the terrorist's hands.


I think it's more likely that 'going Roman' would be playing right into the terrorists' hands, Bremic. I highly doubt that terrorists commit acts of terrorism with the intent to engage in peace talks. They want a reaction like the one you mentioned: 'an all out American counterattack'. And what would that achieve? More innocent people would die, with no guarantee that the real culprits would be captured, and like you said, the distrust and maybe even loss of the US allies. Sometimes war is neccessary, I'm not disputing that. But in the case of terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda, retaliation is what they're counting on.

Here in the UK, in the aftermath of the London bombings, an innocent man was shot and killed by the police. If they'd not gone down the 'shoot first, ask questions later' route, they'd have discovered that the man had nothing to do with the attacks. They shot him eight times because they suspected he was a suicide bomber. How do you think his family felt? Would you really support 'going Roman', an idea that would lead to the deaths of countless innocent people if it was someone close to you who was killed needlessly? Would you really just accept that it was for the 'greater good'? That they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time?


Bremic
 
Hey everyone, some last few things to say before you hit the poles tomorrow. I saw this touching piece, and thought you should see it...


It's nothing but propaganda.

Bremic
 
You want to hear something scary? In 2003, same-sex marriage was made legal in Canada. On top of that, you can be put in jail for speaking out against these couples and their way of life, as a preacher was some time ago.


I did a bit of research on that. According to ReligiousTolerance.org it happened in Sweden. Was there another case that took place in Canada?

ReligiousTolerance.org
 
He allegedly described homosexuality as "abnormal, a horrible cancerous tumor in the body of society." He described them as "perverts, whose sexual drive the Devil has used as his strongest weapon against God."


The preacher was sentenced to a month in prison. But this was Sweden, and that website states that in Canada C-250 means that a person would not be convicted 'if "in good faith, he expressed or attempted to establish by argument an opinion on a religious subject." This would give clergypersons immunity from conviction for a hate-based sermon, for example.'


Bremic
 
Im saying the whole thought of being imprisoned for expressing your views troubles me.


There's a difference between simply expressing your views and being deliberately violent and hateful towards a certain group of people. If someone can take out an anti-gay advertisment expressing their views and not be convicted, I don't think you have anything to worry about unless you're planning on making some really despicable and hateful remarks that aren't connected to any religious beliefs you might have.

Sadhana
 
Their hate propoganda law kind of vetos freedom of speech and religion


There's a clause that makes allowances for religion - as it says on RT.org, " In essence, the law states that the freedom of one person to express religiously-motivated hatred is given higher priority that the freedom of another person to be free of hatred expressed against them."

Andina
 
Well, for me that post did absolutely nothing, but I am not from USA anyway and we all know you people tend to be quite patriotic, some might even say bit too patriotic in some cases which blinds you somewhat in certain matters.


Agreed. ^_^ But yeah, although the majority of Americans may seem that way to me and you, there are people like Sadhana too.

Andina
 
Politicians, no matter what party they are from can just be so incredibly twisted sometimes.


Also agreed. Politicians might promise a great deal, but the likelihood of them following through with it isn't huge. Just look at the state of the NHS in the UK. Despite that, if I lived in America, I would vote Democrat, simply because their ideals are closer to what I agree with.
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