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The Father Of Sephiroth?
Topic Started: Jul 26 2006, 04:28 PM (384 Views)
Carmen
Unregistered

*May be spoilers*
Whenever I would play FFVII again, I would think about Sephiroth and Lucrecia. For those who payed attention to the story, we all know that Lucrecia was Sephiroth's real mother, not Jenova, and that Sephiroth was not an ancient. Well I know who his mother is but I would always get confused about who being his father...

In Vincent's story, he was trying to protect Lucrecia from becoming involved with the Jenova project, seeing that he was in love with her at the time, and wanted Lucrecia to run away with him. Lucrecia refused his offer and went with the experiment of Hojo.

In Hojo's story, he became obsessed with the JENOVA project. Amoung them was Professor Gast, Professor Hojo, the lab assistant Lucrecia as well as other lab assistants and science staff, and one of the Turks, who was assigned to protect them against attacks on the Shinra Science department, Vincent Valentine.

Anyway, So I figured Hojo came up with the idea of using JENOVA cells for experiments and decided to test it out on a human. Being Lucrecia's child the test subject. Jenova's cells were injected into Lucrecia and Sephiroth. Sephiroth was born with JENOVA's cells and Lucrecia supposedly died from the poisoning of the cells.

Professors Hojo & Gast raised and trained Sephiroth to use the power JENOVA's cell gave his body while he lived at Nibelheim. They even told him JENOVA was really his mother and not Lucrecia.

Now was it possible that Vincent could have slept with Lucrecia the night before the experiment and could have gotten her pregnant?
Or could Hojo have raped Lucrecia or seduce her and forced her to marry him? Or was it Professor Gast in place of Hojo?

I feel like Im missing something...Could someone help me please? I would really love to know what you think. Thanks!

~Carmen~
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Amaranth
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The Lukewarm
Hojo is the father, though I'm not sure where the proof is. It's in one of the stories recently translated to English I *think*.

Though I would've prefered it to have been Vincent, it'd be cool to have the father of your enemy in your team.
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aerisbolt
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Beautiful Paradox
I also believe that when you play FFVII and as long as you pick up Vincent(obviously) there is a scene where Vincent remembers back and he sees Lucrecia with Hojo and says something like "As long as she's happy I don't mind." Lucrecia's choice was always something of a mystery to me, I don't even know if she even recipricated Vincent's feelings toward her at all or if she was somehow brainwashed by Hojo. Maybe more is revealed in DoC and other writings but that is what I know from playing FFVII. There could be a twist I don't know about.
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Alan Bates
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That one guy
Hojo says in the game that he's Sephiroth's father. Considering all the various experiments and modifications he's likely to have done in Sephiroth's lifetime, I'm sure he would have noticed if he wasn't.

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Carmen
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Quote:
 
Hojo is the father, though I'm not sure where the proof is. It's in one of the stories recently translated to English I *think*.

Though I would've prefered it to have been Vincent, it'd be cool to have the father of your enemy in your team.



If you do find the proof, post it please? That'd be most appreciated. :gift:

I say it should have beem Vincent because he did love Lucrecia after all. But did she not feel anything back I guess.

In Disc 2 where you met Lucrecia in her cave, was that her ghost? Because if not, then she actually didnt die after giving birth to Sephiroth.

Vincent's story is confusing.....:huh:
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Amathala
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Snoogans!
Unless someone can go in-game and get the screenshot, your chance of this proof might be slim to none...but I've beaten the game about 6 times, and I can say that when you fight Hojo for the last time, he says that he is Sephiroth's father. Vincent was quite shocked indeed...for Vincent to just "!!" is saying a lot.

More will be explained when Dirge of Cerberus becomes available in the US.
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Amaranth
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The Lukewarm
Yeah Carmen, Amathala is right. It's in the game just before you fight Hojo in Midgar at the end of disc 2 (possibly the hardest boss in the game IMO). As for getting a screen shot...that's difficult. Though you could try to get your hands on the script or something similar.

And yes, as Amathala said, Vincent is fairly shocked, but did this mean he thought that he was the father of Sephiroth? He'd never really related to that but to hear that he isn't certainly shocked him.
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Carmen
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Here's a Biography of Vincent that I found:
Quote:
 
Vincent was once a member of the Shin-Ra Company's Turks, a group of highly skilled operatives who specialized in various activies such as espionage, kidnapping, assassinations and serving as bodyguards. When he was assigned to supervise a project spear-headed by his father Grimoire, he fell in love with a scientist named "Lucrecia Crescent," an assistant to his father. However, despite his feelings for her, they parted ways when Grimoire died saving Lucrecia's life. Vincent would later meet her for a second time while assigned to supervise the Jenova Project in Nibelheim, where she was serving as an assistant to Professor Gast. There, Vincent tried expressing his feelings to her, but she rejected him out of guilt over Grimoire's death, ultimately entering a relationship with her associate Hojo instead. Lucrecia became pregnant afterwards, supplying a test subject for the Jenova Project's intentions to investigate the effect of Jenova cells on an unborn child.

Vincent objected to the use of humans—especially Lucrecia and her unborn child, whose parentage he was uncertain of—as live test subjects. Even so, in the interest of science, Lucrecia proceeded with the treatment and suffered various ill effects as a result. Outraged, Vincent confronted Hojo in the Shinra Mansion's underground laboratory and a heated argument ensued. Hojo ended this confrontation by pulling a gun from his lab coat and shooting Vincent down in cold blood. Vincent's body was placed in a large experimental capsule for use in Hojo's experiments based on Lucrecia's research of the Lifestream, originating from the time of her assistance to Grimoire. While Hojo's experimentation resulted in Vincent's anatomy altered to to where he can temporary change his phyiscal form into monsterous enities (Galian Beast, Hellmasker, and Death Gigas), Lucrecia exposed Vincent's body to G Substance, a contaminated form of mako, and he became Chaos, an entity intended to pave the way for Omega WEAPON by killing all living things.

Under the influence of Chaos, Vincent became consumed in feral rage and broke out of his confinement. Lucrecia then used a materia that could control Chaos' power to calm Vincent and place him in a deep slumber. By the time Vincent reawakened on the operating table—with Hojo and Lucrecia nowhere in sight—he responded to his modified body with both anguish and rage. Later, during the time frame of the game, Vincent is discovered by Cloud's party in a locked room in the basement of the mansion. Here, he had been sleeping inside a coffin for some 23 years as a self-inflicted punishment for his inability to prevent the Jenova Project, which Vincent referred to as his "sin".[2] He then joins AVALANCHE in their quest to stop Sephiroth.



I dont think all of this could be true. Do you? :dunno:
Quote:
 
Unless someone can go in-game and get the screenshot, your chance of this proof might be slim to none...but I've beaten the game about 6 times, and I can say that when you fight Hojo for the last time, he says that he is Sephiroth's father. Vincent was quite shocked indeed...for Vincent to just "!!" is saying a lot.


And thats where I got the idea of thinking that Vincent was the father, because he could have slept with Lucrecia and never knew she was pregnant. Then again, maybe all of this is just rumors? No?
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Sadhana
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capitalism is dead
Quote:
 
Though I would've prefered it to have been Vincent, it'd be cool to have the father of your enemy in your team.


That would make for some interesting dialouge at the bottom of the northern cave.

Vincent: Sephiroth, wait! You can't do this.
Sephiroth: Why not? You killed my mother, JENOVA.
Vincent: No, JENOVA wasn't your mother.
Sephiroth: How would you know?
Vincent: Sephiroth.... I am your father.
Sephiroth: NOOOOOOOOOOO!

Actually, Hojo is Sephiroth's father. I found the lines from the game just before they comfront Hojo, and here it is:

Quote:
 

Hojo: Ha, ha, ha... Sephiroth seems to be counting on the energy. So I'm going to lend him a hand.

Cloud: Why!? Why do that!?

Hojo: Quit asking me why, you moron.
(He walks up to look Cloud in the eye.)
Hmm... actually, you might be cut out to be a scientist.
(He turns back to the panel.)
Energy level is at...... 83%. It's taking too long.
(He resumes his button-pressing.)
My son is in need of power and help. ...That's the only reason.

Cloud: ...your son?

Hojo: Ha, ha, ha... Although he doesn't know.
(He begins to laugh so hard he has to stop working.)
Ha, ha, ha... HA, HA, HA...!! What will Sephiroth think when he finds out that I'm his father? Always looking down on me like that. HA, HA, HA...!!

Cloud: Sephiroth is your son!?

(Hojo resumes his work once more.)

Hojo: Ha, ha, ha... I offered the woman with my child to Professor Gast's Jenova
Project. When Sephiroth was still in the womb, we took the cells of Jenova... HA, HA, HA!!


I got it here which has the entire script from Discs 2 & 3.
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Carmen
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Quote:
 
Vincent: Sephiroth, wait! You can't do this.
Sephiroth: Why not? You killed my mother, JENOVA.
Vincent: No, JENOVA wasn't your mother.
Sephiroth: How would you know?
Vincent: Sephiroth.... I am your father.
Sephiroth: NOOOOOOOOOOO!



:lol: Very cute!

Quote:
 
Hojo: Ha, ha, ha... I offered the woman with my child to Professor Gast's Jenova
Project. When Sephiroth was still in the womb, we took the cells of Jenova... HA, HA, HA!!

Okay I think that about proves it. But it still would have been better if there was a screenshot form the game. (I was really apying attention to that ending :sweat:)

*sigh* I still wish Vincent would have been the father of Lucrecia. The story would have gotten more intresting for the two.......

Thank you everyone!!! :huggle:

msz aeris strife, the link didnt work because it said something about "hot linking" from an "unauthorized site". But thank you again though ^_^.
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Sadhana
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capitalism is dead
Carmen
Jul 26 2006, 08:49 PM
msz aeris strife, the link didnt work because it said something about "hot linking" from an "unauthorized site". But thank you again though ^_^.

Dammit, my bad. Here's a different link to another complete script. Maybe that one will work better. I couldn't find a screenshot, but if I can get these links to work, that should be good enough. It has the entire script of the game (Disc 1 is available at the site, just on a different page).

[Edit]: Crap it's not working... Let me try again. You can go here and just click on the link for the script of Discs 2 & 3.
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Carmen
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Quote:
 
Dammit, my bad. Here's a different link to another complete script. Maybe that one will work better. I couldn't find a screenshot, but if I can get these links to work, that should be good enough. It has the entire script of the game (Disc 1 is available at the site, just on a different page).

[Edit]: Crap it's not working... Let me try again. You can go here and just click on the link for the script of Discs 2 & 3.


The first link didnt work but the second one did. I cant thank you enough :huggle:.
(Can I just point something out really quickly?
Quote:
 
Cloud
        "I think we all are fighting for ourselves."
        "For ourselves... and that someone... something... whatever it
is, that's important to us."
        "That's what we're fighting for."
        "That's why we keep up this battle for the planet."

Do you think he was talking about Aeris at that moment?)
Back to the topic ^_^
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yin-chan
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*dreamchaser*
Amathala
 
Vincent was quite shocked indeed...for Vincent to just "!!" is saying a lot.


!!! :lmao: :lmao: Instant quotage potential! Amathala, may I?

Well, on the subject of Vinnie and Hojo and Lucrecia and Sephy's family affairs, I'll have to echo everyone else above in saying that Hojo is indeed Vincent's father. I think you probably find out more about it in DoC as well, though I'm not too sure as I've not played it.
Also, I recall ever so vaguely something about this being in the Ultimania Omega....I'll see if I can dig up the translations of that bit for you. (if I remembered correctly)
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Amathala
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Snoogans!
yin-chan
Jul 26 2006, 06:02 PM
Amathala
 
Vincent was quite shocked indeed...for Vincent to just "!!" is saying a lot.


!!! :lmao: :lmao: Instant quotage potential! Amathala, may I?

Well, on the subject of Vinnie and Hojo and Lucrecia and Sephy's family affairs, I'll have to echo everyone else above in saying that Hojo is indeed Vincent's father. I think you probably find out more about it in DoC as well, though I'm not too sure as I've not played it.
Also, I recall ever so vaguely something about this being in the Ultimania Omega....I'll see if I can dig up the translations of that bit for you. (if I remembered correctly)

LOL yes you may, quote away. *ish embarrassed* First time I've ever been quoted before.

About all that Vincent stuff, Carmen, where did you get it? It looks interesting...if someone made that up, they are pretty talented ^_^. It might be what you get from DoC though. I cant wait for that game...Vincents mysteries will finally be solved!
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