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War.; Is it necessary?
Topic Started: Jul 16 2006, 08:27 PM (349 Views)
goddess_in_pink07
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Ambrosia
M K, what do u think? Do u think war is necessary in some cases?

I vote yes. I think war is needed in some situations when its called for. Because, sometimes words won't work. Example: WWII. Do u think protests and peace talk would of stopped Hilter? I think not. Hilter would of killed MILLIONS more if war wasn't used. Sometimes bloodshed is the only way to peace. Thats why people who go into war and die should be highly honored.

I'm not saying war should be used all the time. I'm not a blood thirsty dictator who uses war all the time! :sweat: Sometimes things can be settled by peaceful negotiation.
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Nevaleigh
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Not Brave Enough To Be A Elephant
War is necessar in some cases like with what you said about WWII but the case we have now in Iraq, I really don't know anymore, actually I'm not really sure if anyone wants to contiune this war anymore.
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Sadhana
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capitalism is dead
War is absolutely justified and necessary sometimes. What if your country is being invaded? If you don't go to war, then you'll just let your country be destroyed. The Civil War and World War II were both "good" wars IMO. Sometimes, you just need to use force for the greater good.

But where do we draw the line as to what justifies a war? What about the Vietnam War where we shipped tons of troops overseas to fight a battle that had nothing to do with us only because we were convinced that Communists were going to conquer the world. What about the War in Iraq where we started fighting over seemingly invisible weapons of mass destruction? I think half the time, we go into war for the wrong reasons. And we should never get tangled in a war that has nothing to do with us.
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Clerith-son
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In the middle of dawn. Staring at the twilights.
I think war is something that has always been, is and will be. People claim war to be inhuman, but war is something natural, in the way that it's part of the human nature (up to a degree), and other animals as well (even if it is in a way minor degree). Besides greed and madness, war also shows the survival instincts of humanity, the fear towards others, etc...

War has meant many things throughout history, from total devastation, to new alliances and major improvements in science and technology (wether it has been for good or bad). I've heard that the ultimate goal is eternal peace, but: Can it be achieved when history tells us that war has always been there as much as peace itself? History as someone once said, has been an Endless Waltz, where war, peace and revolution are constant compasses.

Demos Maus
 
War is necessar in some cases like with what you said about WWII but the case we have now in Iraq, I really don't know anymore, actually I'm not really sure if anyone wants to contiune this war anymore.

I wouldn't call that War, since war implies two or more countries (or sides of one) capable of damaging each other, yet this is one sided in this case. What happens in Iraq, is not war, is massacre.
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Sadhana
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capitalism is dead
Clerith-son
Jul 17 2006, 03:06 AM
Demos Maus
 
War is necessar in some cases like with what you said about WWII but the case we have now in Iraq, I really don't know anymore, actually I'm not really sure if anyone wants to contiune this war anymore.

I wouldn't call that War, since war implies two or more countries (or sides of one) capable of damaging each other, yet this is one sided in this case. What happens in Iraq, is not war, is massacre.

Well put. The military involvement in Iraq right now is so dispicable, it makes me ashamed to be an American. Don't get me wrong, I love this country. I just strongly disagree with the foreign policy that is dominating its principles at the moment. Over 2,500 of our troops have died there thus far. If I knew how many Iraqis have died as a direct result of this war, I would quote the number as I don't view their lives as any less valuable than those of our troops. But what are all these people really dying for? American soldiers aren't really "fighting" anyone. They're just acting as a military presence in the very chaotic Iraq (chaos which was directly induced by America's military actions). No, I don't think Saddam Hussein was a good leader. But Joseph Stalin was a million times worse, and we never took any armed action against him because it would've been a horrible decision with irreperable repercussions. I think George Bush is the worst president this country has ever seen, but that doesn't give another country the right to invade us because they don't like our leader. People say that Saddam Hussein was killing his own people. Couldn't you say the same about Bush? As governor of Texas, he saw to the executions of more convicted felons than any other single governor in American history.

Wow, sorry. Once you get me started on Bush, I can't stop. :lmao: *is a horrible digressing lefty*

All in all, wars for oil can't be justified. I value human lives more than fossil fuels, but maybe that's just me.
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Raist
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The Bringer of the Black Funeral
Couldn't you say the same about Bush? As governor of Texas, he saw to the executions of more convicted felons than any other single governor in American history.

That logical analogy doesn't support your argument.

In Saddam's case the issue was that he was murdering citizens with no access to the rule of law and often times without justification. Even if some of the murders may have justified (if you believe in such a thing) the fact that a ruler can decide at whim to kill citizens is far different from a Governor convening over a state with the death penalty. At least those victims were given trials and knew of their coming fate. They weren't held in a constant state of anxiety and fear as many Iraqis were un der Hussein. Not to mention that Bush didn't give the word to kill those felons, judges did.

Also, your Stalin argument falls through. I'm sure the U.S. would liked to have removed Stalin, but knew they couldn't. In Iraq's case the removal of Hussein was suddenly beneficial and most definitely possible.

Note that I am not saying I agree with the death penalty, the war in Iraq or Hussein. I'm merely pointing out some logical flaws.
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Sadhana
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capitalism is dead
Damn. This is what happens when I ramble on in a fit of Bush hatred. >_<

I'm sorry. I realize now how disorganized my post was. When I mentioned his record with executions, I wasn't referencing the previous sentence ("Couldn't you say the same about Bush?"). I was just thinking about his disregard for human life, and that statistic came through my mind and was typed out in my post. I wasn't using it as an example or evidence of my arguement. My bad. :P I think I was actually talking about the casualties from this war in the first sentence... casualties I personally view as murder since this war is hardly justifiable. But in regards to what you said about how Hussein treated his people, we don't know how Bush is treating the "enemy combatants." Just a thought.

Yeah, my Stalin thing was pretty weak. But that's sort of what I meant. We would've liked to have removed him, but we didn't actively try because we anticipated how much of a disaster it would be. Just like how we should've foreseen or at least thought about what would happen to Iraq after we removed Hussein from power. We didn't even have an exit plan going in, as is evident now.

Sorry again. I really need to make myself more clear when I go off on my typical Anti-Bush rant.
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Clerith-son
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In the middle of dawn. Staring at the twilights.
The fact is that invading a country "for justice", can be seen as that, depending on the side you're viewing it. For example: US people, at first, thought this would be good because Sadam caused too much trouble and he could have been involved in 9/11 (not to say that this was a very good way for the goverment to please the whim of many citizens, and to make them feel that they were still a powerful nation). In the other side, since the beggining of this "war", as well, the iraqis never liked the idea of being invaded, even if it was for "helping" them (not sure how they were being helped when their houses were being destroyed with no reason, though), they never wanted the american troops in their lands, they still don't want them there.

I've always seen it funny, how many people talks and talks about Bush (not refering to you msz aeris strife) or previous US presidents, but never do anything. The US was supposed to be the land of freedom, but I've always seen that their govemnents do whatever they want, and the people just sit and watch, wether they like it or not, not to state also, that their presidents, are even more revered than the Queen of England.
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Azerty
Azerty the Mysterious
I for one don't support war. However, if it's the only option left or if it's needed, that's the only time I'll support it.
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Sadhana
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capitalism is dead
Clerith-son
Jul 18 2006, 06:53 PM
The fact is that invading a country "for justice", can be seen as that, depending on the side you're viewing it. For example: US people, at first, thought this would be good because Sadam caused too much trouble and he could have been involved in 9/11 (not to say that this was a very good way for the goverment to please the whim of many citizens, and to make them feel that they were still a powerful nation). In the other side, since the beggining of this "war", as well, the iraqis never liked the idea of being invaded, even if it was for "helping" them (not sure how they were being helped when their houses were being destroyed with no reason, though), they never wanted the american troops in their lands, they still don't want them there.

I've always seen it funny, how many people talks and talks about Bush (not refering to you msz aeris strife) or previous US presidents, but never do anything. The US was supposed to be the land of freedom, but I've always seen that their govemnents do whatever they want, and the people just sit and watch, wether they like it or not, not to state also, that their presidents, are even more revered than the Queen of England.

It's true; justification for war is largely opinion-based. I wrote my final research paper in English on how the war in Iraq can't be justified, but it was a tad long (try ten pages), so I won't copy and paste. :lol: In the end, I just don't think Iraq is ANY better off now than it was before. I don't know how many people Saddam was killing on a daily basis, but I doubt (this is just speculation) it was as many as those who are dying now.

About people not taking action, I agree with you. It's sad how often people see something wrong and don't take action. I've done everything in my power-- not much since I'm still a minor but I try-- to voice my opinions and do what I can to see Bush out of office ASAP. I went to a protest in Manhattan in May with my brother which was pretty much pushing for the impeachment of Bush. 300,000 people showed up, and it was definitely one of the most inspiring moments of my life. But enough about that since you already said that comment wasn't directed at me. XD When I turn 18 next year, I plan to utilize my vote to its full potential. Speaking of which, any American citizens here who are 18 or over should vote in the Congressional elections this November. Just a suggestion. :angel:

Okay, I seriously need to stop posting in this topic every half a second. :blush:
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