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| Parallels; Theories about KH2 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 7 2006, 01:06 PM (633 Views) | |
| Anastar | Jan 7 2006, 01:06 PM Post #1 |
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
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We've discussed before how there are parallels between KH1 and FFVII. For one thing, Cloud's clothing in KH1 looks very much like Vincent's. On Hikari, Madame Batolli made a very interesting observation about how Cloud's story had become very much like Vincent's: Vincent's story revolved around how he felt that he had sinned because he couldn't protect Lucrecia and "let the woman [he] loved the most face the worst." This would tie in with how Cloud felt guilty about giving Sephiroth the Black Materia, thus making it vital for Aeris to pray for Holy, and how he had to watch her die right in front of him, and couldn't save her life. So I think that wearing Vincent's style of clothing is perhaps a statement, showing his grief and guilt about losing the woman he loved. Source: Hikari Other parallels can be seen between KH1 and FFVII, too. For example, Cloud is with Aerith at the beginning of Kingdom Hearts, and they were also together near the beginning of Final Fantasy VII. Cloud becomes separated from Aerith in Kingdom Hearts when their worlds are split apart. Cloud and Aerith’s worlds are separated in Final Fantasy VII, too, after she dies. Cloud starts searching for Sephiroth in KH1 in order to confront his Darkness. Cloud searches for Sephiroth in Final Fantasy VII, too... for many reasons... although it's basically because Sephiroth is the root of most of the darkness in Cloud's life. After Cloud kills Sephiroth in Final Fantasy VII, Aerith appears to him in a "beam" of light during the hand reach scene. After Cloud confronts Sephiroth in KH1, Cloud is able to be reunited with his "light"... Aerith. In both games, Cloud must confront his Darkness (Sephiroth) in order to meet his "light". Basically, the sub-plots involving Cloud and Aerith in both games are parallel to one another, and the theme of Cloud's search for Aerith is continued. The hand reach scene between Sora and Kairi as their worlds are separated near the end of KH1 is also quite reminiscent of the hand reach scene between Cloud and Aerith in Final Fantasy VII, and it is shown shortly before the cutscenes at the end of the game where Cloud meets Aerith in Hollow Bastion. Sora has to let go of Kairi’s hand as their worlds separate, just as Cloud was torn away from Aerith’s hand in the Final FMV as the ground started to give way beneath his feet. Sora tells Kairi that he promises to come back to her, which is quite similar to Cloud saying, “I think I can meet her… there”. So there's many parallels between KH1 and FFVII. I'm beginning to think there are also parallels between KH2 and AC, which is perhaps one reason Cloud is in his AC outfit (besides plugging AC :lol:). In KH2, both Aerith and Sephiroth say that Cloud is searching for the light within himself. Cloud is trying to get rid of his Darkness in KH2, and he believes that he can only do that by defeating Sephiroth. In a sense, AC also dealt with Cloud defeating his Darkness, except that his Darkness was a guilt tied to Sephiroth. Cloud started overcoming his guilt in AC once he talked to Aerith in the flower field near the Forgotten City, but he also had to confront Sephiroth like he did in KH2. Cloud was surrounded by light when Aerith's Holy Rain started falling on him near the end of AC. Cloud was also "showered" with light when Hollow Bastion became Radiant Garden in KH2. After being "showered" with that light, Cloud started glowing with an inner light when he confronted Sephiroth. Cloud will return to Radiant Garden permanently (and most likely, Aerith) once he defeats Sephiroth (in KH3?). So once again, Cloud has to defeat his Darkness before he can be with his light, as well as to know his inner light. I also see parallels between AC and KH2 in that Tifa is searching for Cloud, but Cloud's not searching for her. Remember Tifa leaving messages on Cloud's cellphone in AC, for example, but he doesn't return her calls?
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| Anti-R | Jan 7 2006, 04:21 PM Post #2 |
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the girl who becomes a prince
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In Chain of Memories, one of the XIII Order says to Sora "Ahead lies something you need. But to claim it, you must lose something dear." in regards of their trek in Castle Oblivion, where Sora is slowly losing his memories. Freaky. ^0^ |
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| Ally McBeal | Jan 7 2006, 06:04 PM Post #3 |
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Advanced Member
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omg..awesome analisys!!!!and this makes so much sense :o |
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| Anastar | Jan 7 2006, 07:19 PM Post #4 |
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
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Yep, yep... that was said in Cloud's character profile in CoM, too: ![]() ![]() Also... (I only have a very vague memory of this because I haven't played CoM) but didn't a flower open up at the end of CoM to reveal Kairi or something like that? I remember something to do with a flower and light as Sora starts getting his memory of Kairi back at the end of CoM... I can't remember exactly. Another thought about parallels between AC and KH2... is Cloud smiling at the end of AC parallel to Cloud finding his inner light? If so, I don't think Cloud's sidestory is over yet in the realm of Kingdom Hearts. ![]() Another parallel between FFVII/AC and KH2: in KH2, Tifa tries to help Cloud fight Sephiroth, and fights with Cloud in the Colisseum. In FFVII and AC, Tifa fights with Cloud against Sephiroth, Shinra, the SHM, etc. (Yes, Cloud did most the fighting in AC, but Tifa fought Loz, who was a Sephiroth remnant.) So KH2 is portraying Tifa as just another fighter in Cloud's party again. Tifa also searched for Cloud in FFVII after the Reunion, just like Tifa searches for Cloud in KH2. Come to think of it, Tifa searches for Cloud in FFVII, and wonders where Cloud is in both CoT and AC... just like in KH2. Another parallel: I also hear there's a hand reach scene between Namine and the BHK in KH2 that's similar to the hand reach scene in FFVII between Cloud and Aerith? (I haven't seen the video yet (thanks to my phone modem.)
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| Anti-R | Jan 8 2006, 03:01 AM Post #5 |
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the girl who becomes a prince
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Actually, I realize the fights in the Coliseum should be taken with a grain of salt. Sora gets to fight Sephiroth in KH1, yet when he was talking to Cloud in KH2, I'm getting the impression Sora has not personally met the guy, especially when he asked Cloud what Sephiroth looks like. Now Sephiroth made a strong impression on me in that fight, I don't see why Sora hasn't. BTW, Sora and Kairi also had a hand holding scene. ^^ and Namine grabbed Roxas' wrist, actually... |
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| the aftermath of jenova | Jan 8 2006, 05:13 AM Post #6 |
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Member
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regardless, when Namine grabbed Roxas' wrist, bright light surrounded both of them. another cxa parallelism
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| Ally McBeal | Jan 8 2006, 09:13 AM Post #7 |
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Advanced Member
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i think sora didn't know sephirot.cause: 1-in japan.sephirot wasn't a boss of the colosseum(he only appeared for figth cloud) 2-US/EUROPEAN..version..sephirot..is an optional boss.. so isn't necesary know him..for pass the game
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| Hades' Daughter | Jan 8 2006, 01:17 PM Post #8 |
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Cleris Extremist
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I love your ideas and thoughts, Aly! ![]() None of them are at all far-streched, and I think the whole concept of Aerith being Cloud's light and Sephiroth being his darkness is very much the major parallel to VII SE wanted to stress on. Not only that, but with KH2 and the addition of Tifa, it seems SE wants to touch on the LT as well, another major parallel I see. She searches for him, offers him her light...but as usual, I see Cloud kind of just shrugging it off and acting rather "clueless": "For me...I don't know." Because you`re by my side, The light known as "you" finds me It's been argued over and over that perhaps "light" in KH, and especially in Cloud's case, isn't a person...but a "thing". However, it seems to me like the lyrics to "Hikari" points out that a "light" does = a person. Why should Cloud's case be an exception? Why put Cloud into KH if his light is completely different from everyone else's light? Why put him in there if his light has nothing to do with what "Hikari" speaks of? Aerith can certainly be called Cloud's light because she is (more than anyone else) his strength, she pulls him out of the darkness/his depression, the one most successful in helping him find his "inner light", one who deeply trusts and believes in him, his love interest...etc. These ideas have been portrayed and touched upon in both VII and AC. I don't doubt at all why SE portrayed Cloud meeting up with Aerith at the end of KH1. To completely ignore all of this would mean to ignore the fact that there was a purpose for inserting Aerith into Cloud's sidestory. Were they memories of someone dear to him, or memories of his hazy past? - CoM In other words, Aerith and Sephiroth... ;) |
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| Roseyrosho | Jan 8 2006, 02:07 PM Post #9 |
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Menace
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I think also another resemblace 4 that is how Sora slowly started to lose the memories of the one he loved (Kairi) and the rest of the things that were important to him....in FFVII Cloud loses something dear.... Aerith and it's foreseen as well by CS's prediction that CLoud would find what he was searching 4 but he would lose something dear as Marluxia forewarned him that he would lose something dear in exchange 4 what he's looking 4!!! :o OMG!! so many connections!!!
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| Ally McBeal | Jan 8 2006, 02:35 PM Post #10 |
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Advanced Member
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wooow even i bougth the game..i didn't play it..cause ..well was boting..(those cards >_>) but i didn't know those facts about cloud in COM...then there's no doubt...that the ligth is inside him ..or is aerith ^^ |
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| Anastar | Jan 8 2006, 03:44 PM Post #11 |
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
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Anti-R and Ally McBeal
I agree with Ally. The NA/European versions of the game have Sephiroth as an optional fight in the Colisseum, so it isn't required that Sora know what Sephiroth looks like. Also, Sora's talk with Cloud after the Cerberes fight is very brief. Sora didn't get to know Cloud as well as he got to know Leon, Aerith, Yuffie, and Cid. So it's not like Sora and Cloud became close friends. Anti-R
But the point I was making is that Tifa is being portrayed simply as a fighter who helps Cloud fight. It's almost like she's a member of Cloud's party again in FFVII, who helps Cloud fight Sephiroth and other beasties. Cloud and Tifa aren't really shown to have a personal relationship of any kind in KH2 - they just fight together. However, Aerith and Cloud talk with each other in Hollow Bastion. Not only do they talk about Cloud's inner light, but they also talk about how Cloud will return to Hollow Bastion and why he's going away. This shows that Cloud and Aerith have some kind of personal relationship. On the other hand, Tifa's shown to be no more than a fighting partner who helps Cloud fight Sephiroth and helps Cloud fight in the Colisseum. I think that's a significant difference.
Quite a few people were saying that the scene with Namine and Roxas' reminded them of the hand reach scene between Cloud and Aerith in FFVII. ![]() Hades' Daughter
Exactly. And if Cloud already found his light (Aerith) at the end of KH1, why would he still be searching for her? Cloud knows where Aerith is now, and Cloud knows his inner light will return him to Hollow Bastion where Aerith is. There's no reason for Cloud to still be searching for his light (Aerith) in KH2, when he's already found her. So now, what Cloud is searching for has changed. Cloud's looking for his inner light now. He no longer needs to search for the person who is his light. In other words, Cloud searching for his inner light now doesn't mean that Cloud wasn't searching for Aerith in KH1. What Cloud has searching for has simply changed. ![]() Cloud's looking for his inner light now because Cloud's darkness (Sephiroth) prevents Cloud from finding his inner light. Cloud's darkness must be defeated before he can find his inner light. I think Cloud finding his inner light is probably a parallel to Cloud smiling at the end of AC.
Exactly... and Cloud also runs away when Tifa first appears, so he's not searching for her. Cloud may run away because he's chasing Sephiroth rather than running away from Tifa, but I don't think that matters. Even if Cloud's chasing Sephiroth, I don't think Cloud would just run away without speaking if Tifa's the one he's actually searching for. ![]() We know that Tifa's searching for Cloud, but there's no indication that Cloud's searching for Tifa. Again, I think it's another parallel. Tifa searched for Cloud after the Reunion in FFVII. Tifa was wondering where Cloud was after he left in CoT. Tifa didn't know that Cloud had moved into the Church in AC. Tifa also kept leaving messages on Cloud's cellphone in AC, and he didn't return the calls. Tifa has often searched for Cloud, but when has Cloud ever searched for Tifa? The only time I can think of is Don Corneo's, but the whole matter was laughable.On the other hand, think of how many times Cloud searched for Aerith. Cloud went after Aerith when she got abducted by Tseng, and Cloud tried to run after her in the Sleeping Forest dream. Cloud went to find her in the Forgotten City, and woke in the middle of the night hearing Aerith call to him, when he followed her to the City below the spiral house. At the end of FFVII, Cloud said he would try to meet Aerith in the Promised Land. In AC, Cloud moved to Aerith's Church. Cloud also rides out to Aerith's flower field. The one Cloud searches for is usually Aerith, so that's the most likely parallel. Cloud searches for Sephiroth, too, but Sephiroth has always been Cloud's Darkness rather than his light. |
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| Lady_leBLanc | Jan 8 2006, 06:37 PM Post #12 |
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Moonlight Sonata of Cloud ...
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hm... you all are good at finding details, I like the analysis ^^ |
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| Anti-R | Jan 8 2006, 06:43 PM Post #13 |
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the girl who becomes a prince
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Probably. I wonder if Final Mix's Showdown of Fate didn't occur, if Nomura just expanded that little conversation and evolved it in KH2's as Cloud's side story... |
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| Anastar | Jan 9 2006, 12:22 AM Post #14 |
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
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*Correction* Vilaeth made some corrections to the translations we had at The Northern Crater. I've pinned those corrected translations at the top of the KH2 Spoiler Forum. One translation change that Vilaeth made was in Cloud and Aerith's conversation in Hollow Bastion. It turns out that Aerith does not say that Cloud's inner light will bring him back to Hollow Bastion. Here's the correct translation:
Now, I don't think this is to worry about because Aerith says that Cloud's inner light will lead him back to where he should be. That means that if Cloud's place is with Aerith, then that's where Cloud will return. Madame Batolli explained it very well in the Corrected Translations thread:
Very well stated, Madame B! Now that I've seen Vilaeth's translations, I see even more parallels with AC... but I'll talk about it later.
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Remember Tifa leaving messages on Cloud's cellphone in AC, for example, but he doesn't return her calls?










Madame Batolli explained it very well in the
Now that I've seen Vilaeth's translations, I see even more parallels with AC... but I'll talk about it later.
2:46 PM Jul 11