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Cleris Interpretation - Case Of Tifa; Full Analysis
Topic Started: Nov 18 2005, 01:26 PM (854 Views)
Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
I've written a Cleris interpretation of the novella "Case of Tifa". I feel that the story basically shows us why a CloudxTifa relationship will never work out. To support that interpretation, I've written a full analysis of the story. You can see it here:

Full Analysis - Case of Tifa

I still intend to revise the conclusion, since I'm still not happy with it! :blush: The ideas are basically all there, though, so see what you think.

Sorry it's so long! :blush:
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Rui
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~Clerith Forever~

I love your analysis! It really is...convincing(?). But somehow, there is a part in
me where this CoT thing is CloTi...and it's really scaring me!!! :no: :sad:

I want to think of it as a Clerith but....but!!! *bursts out crying*

...Okay, anywayz....I really do like your analysis and agree with you!! And in the
end, it kinda pissed me off where Tifa says to Cloud, "Aerith didn't bring Denzel to you."
How does she know!!!?
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yin-chan
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*dreamchaser*
Rui
Nov 19 2005, 01:13 AM
I love your analysis! It really is...convincing(?). But somehow, there is a part in
me where this CoT thing is CloTi...and it's really scaring me!!! :no: :sad:

Which part of CoT makes you feel that it's Cloti, Rui? :unsure: Why don't you tell us what's bothering you about it, so Aly can further strengthen her analysis. I didn't feel too comfortable with CoT at first, but after reading it a few times, I can completely see how it very strongly disproves Cloti. ^_^

The analysis was great, Aly!!! :lol: Not a flaw. Ahh I can hear the whinings start. :D
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Rui
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~Clerith Forever~
Hmmm...for one thing, the scene where Cloud blushes in front of Tifa.
Anastar-san made a good arguement about it but there's just that thing
that makes me feel it's CloTi, and I don't like it.

Though I did like the part, where Tifa asks if she can join him while he
was drinking but he replies with a "I can drink alone" tone and she gets
disappointed. That was really a anti-CloTi there.

Hmm...maybe I don't like this Case of Tifa because even though, maybe
it's not from his heart or something, Cloud still smiles towards Tifa, and I don't like that. In my opinion, I would want Cloud to only smile towards Aerith, but
that's just being selfish so I won't say much.

Maybe, I'm just being too sensitive, I don't know. :( Sorry > <!!

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Clerith-son
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In the middle of dawn. Staring at the twilights.
Rui
Nov 18 2005, 09:13 AM
But somehow, there is a part in
me where this CoT thing is CloTi...and it's really scaring me!!!  :no:  :sad:

Mmm... there are parts that can be considered as cute, or even romantic, that's true, I won't deny it. Many of those scenes are cute/romantic, because of the way they were written, or because of the way things happened; but, that's as far as it gets.

In depth, there's no real romance, besides the illusionary cuteness, there are no romantic feelings, from Cloud to Tifa, it was care, support and all those kind of feelings, that were disguised as romance, because of the writting style.

It is normal for a CloudxAerith supporter, to feel annoyed by those scenes, but it is just matter of reading carefully the story, once you do it, those scenes won't bother you anymore, instead you'll find that Cloud is still pretty much fond of Aerith, and that his feelings for Tifa, are everything but romantic.
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Roxas
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Rebel Princess
Rui
Nov 20 2005, 07:50 AM
Hmmm...for one thing, the scene where Cloud blushes in front of Tifa.
Anastar-san made a good arguement about it but there's just that thing
that makes me feel it's CloTi, and I don't like it.

Though I did like the part, where Tifa asks if she can join him while he
was drinking but he replies with a "I can drink alone" tone and she gets
disappointed. That was really a anti-CloTi there.

Hmm...maybe I don't like this Case of Tifa because even though, maybe
it's not from his heart or something, Cloud still smiles towards Tifa, and I don't like that. In my opinion, I would want Cloud to only smile towards Aerith, but
that's just being selfish so I won't say much.

Maybe, I'm just being too sensitive, I don't know. :( Sorry > <!!

If you only want Cloud to smile at Aerith then what about the end of AC, he smiles at EVERYONE (after giving Aerith the most beautiful smile ever of course), but that's because Aerith has lifted him up, and he feels he can smile to everyone now. So Aerith is the one who's making him smile, even if he's not smiling AT her.

I understand his smile in CoT to be annoying to you, but he left after smiling, so obviously, it wasn't a real smile, it was probably a very sincere "I'm sorry smile" but Tifa took it the wrong way as meaning he's happy, when he obviously wasn't, because he left shortly afterwards.

Don't worry, I was worried about CoT until I read it throughly and didn't just skim for the "OMG CLOTI PARTS!!", Cloud really doesn't fit as Tifa's lover, a friend? Yes. A lover? No.
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
Ashe
Nov 20 2005, 11:18 AM
I understand his smile in CoT to be annoying to you, but he left after smiling, so obviously, it wasn't a real smile, it was probably a very sincere "I'm sorry smile" but Tifa took it the wrong way as meaning he's happy, when he obviously wasn't, because he left shortly afterwards.

Don't worry, I was worried about CoT until I read it throughly and didn't just skim for the "OMG CLOTI PARTS!!", Cloud really doesn't fit as Tifa's lover, a friend? Yes. A lover? No.

Exactly, Ashe. His smile obviously wasn't sincere. I just took it as a way to placate Tifa and get her off his back so that he didn't have to explain. :lmao: He withdrew further and further away from Tifa as the story went on, which I take to mean that he didn't feel understood by her. Since he didn't feel understood, he didn't want to share anything or explain anything. That makes it easier for him to just smile and leave, rather than to bother explaining (she won't understand, anyway) and getting into a fight over it.

You have to remember that SE was faced with millions of fans who are pretty much divided into 50% Cloti and 50% Cleris fans. After seven years, I don't think SE wanted to disappoint either fanbase. SE didn't want to make it absolutely clear which side was wrong. Instead, they decided to leave it up to interpretation, which means they have to give something to both sides.

None of the "Cloti" scenes (the blushing scene and the hand on the shoulder scene) are definite. They're only small hints that Cloud might *possibly* have feelings for Tifa. There's nothing definite about those scenes. It's not like Cloud kissed Tifa or embraced her, which would show that Cloud's definitely romantically interested in Tifa. Instead, those "Cloti" scenes might mean that Cloud's interested in Tifa, but you can also interpret them to mean something else (like I showed in my analysis).

SE knows how to be definite. Remember Squall kissing Rinoa, and the Moonglow lake scene with Tidus and Yuna? If SE wanted to show a definite romance between Cloud and Tifa, they would have given the Cloti's a scene like Squall had with Rinoa or like Tidus had with Yuna... not Cloud blushing. :lmao: Instead, SE just gave the Cloti's a possible hint that's left totally up to interpretation.

Remember that SE gave the Cleris side a helluva lot more than a blush in MotP and in AC. :yahoo:
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Digital Holocaust
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Force of Nature
Oh my goodness Anastar, that's HUGE!!! *bookmarks* :lmao:

You're gonna have to give me a couple of days to get through this alone, dear. :)
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Clerith-son
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In the middle of dawn. Staring at the twilights.
Anastar
Nov 20 2005, 09:52 AM
SE knows how to be definite. Remember Squall kissing Rinoa, and the Moonglow lake scene with Tidus and Yuna? If SE wanted to show a definite romance between Cloud and Tifa, they would have given the Cloti's a scene like Squall had with Rinoa or like Tidus had with Yuna... not Cloud blushing. :lmao: Instead, SE just gave the Cloti's a possible hint that's left totally up to interpretation.

Well, that might be because there's nothing left to interpretation in FFVIII or FFX, or at least nothing left to interpretation as in FFVII. FF(VIII & X) were games with a pretty much clear story, while VII's was pretty much blurry, that's why I think that in that kind of matters, VII can't be really compared to VIII, X or any other Final Fantasy.

SE gave the CloudxTifa supporters possible hints, but the same was with the CloudxAerith supporters. Yes, the CloudxAerith supporters has more stuff to be happy about, but even so, I don't think that's enough to convince the CloudxTifa supporters, if we try to think of this possibilities, as debatable stuff.
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MalusExcidium
The Maiden's Defender
Guys, does anyone else here think SE is just screwing with the fans deliberately?

I mean let's look at it from a logical perspective: FF7 has one of the most rabid fanbases of any game/anime/movie, ever. So, SE have created Advent Children, which is an EXTREMELY diplomatic story that has one of the nicest 'please-everyone' endings ever. I mean if you're a Cloti fan you can take Tifa's little smiles at Cloud and the 'family' sub-theme to mean they're going to get together, if you're a Cleris fan you get a whole load of flowerfields and visions, if you're a Zeris fan you can cheer that Spiky Senior shows up with Aerith at the end.

It's obvious to me Nomura understands that the fans have made a lot bigger deal out of FF7's love triangle than he or the rest of the designers ever intended. FF7 was -not- meant to be a love story. Its theme we have been told was 'Life' and FF8's was 'Love'.

FF7 is more about Cloud's internal struggle and redemption than it is about any kind of romance. But we've been obsessing over the love triangle for...is it eight years now? That's bound to filter back to savvy game designers.

Looks to me like they're cleverly playing us all off each other, while trying to keep the integrity of their story as best they can (by avoiding, say, the much-wished-for Aeris resurrection) I respect them for sticking to their guns. Cloud and Aeris or Cloud and Tifa? If they cave in either way, they lose half the fandom. SE knows this. Do you think they would ever, ever consider doing that?
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Clerith-son
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In the middle of dawn. Staring at the twilights.
MalusExcidium, I agree with every single thing, you have just said. And, I don't know if they'll ever think of doing it, it's not profitable to them.
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Rui
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~Clerith Forever~

Quote:
 

If you only want Cloud to smile at Aerith then what about the end of AC, he smiles at EVERYONE (after giving Aerith the most beautiful smile ever of course), but that's because Aerith has lifted him up, and he feels he can smile to everyone now. So Aerith is the one who's making him smile, even if he's not smiling AT her.


Okay, one question, is Case of Tifa before AC or after? I'm not really sure.

Quote:
 

I understand his smile in CoT to be annoying to you, but he left after smiling, so obviously, it wasn't a real smile, it was probably a very sincere "I'm sorry smile" but Tifa took it the wrong way as meaning he's happy, when he obviously wasn't, because he left shortly afterwards.

Don't worry, I was worried about CoT until I read it throughly and didn't just skim for the "OMG CLOTI PARTS!!", Cloud really doesn't fit as Tifa's lover, a friend? Yes. A lover? No.


Yes, to tell the truth, I find CoT quite annoying, being a Clerith fan. But, I guess
that's normal.

Quote:
 

I mean let's look at it from a logical perspective: FF7 has one of the most rabid fanbases of any game/anime/movie, ever. So, SE have created Advent Children, which is an EXTREMELY diplomatic story that has one of the nicest 'please-everyone' endings ever. I mean if you're a Cloti fan you can take Tifa's little smiles at Cloud and the 'family' sub-theme to mean they're going to get together, if you're a Cleris fan you get a whole load of flowerfields and visions, if you're a Zeris fan you can cheer that Spiky Senior shows up with Aerith at the end.


That is so true! I totally agree with you!


...Okay, it seems like half of my little 'worries' are solved, but whether Cloud
had hints of romantic feelings towards Tifa or not, I don't think I'll ever like
this CoT. Because...well, if I continued to read, then, I think it will make me hate Tifa again, and I don't want that to happen...so... :P

I thank all of you for encouraging(?) me!! :D

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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
Rui
Nov 21 2005, 08:50 AM
Okay, one question, is Case of Tifa before AC or after? I'm not really sure.

Case of Tifa happens before AC.

MalusExcidium
 
Looks to me like they're cleverly playing us all off each other, while trying to keep the integrity of their story as best they can (by avoiding, say, the much-wished-for Aeris resurrection) I respect them for sticking to their guns. Cloud and Aeris or Cloud and Tifa? If they cave in either way, they lose half the fandom. SE knows this. Do you think they would ever, ever consider doing that?

I would agree with you, although I'm not sure that they're playing us off on each other on purpose. Is SE that evil? :lmao: I see it more as SE trying to keep all fanbases happy while trying to keep the integrity of their story. Whether or not SE intended that the original game be left up to interpretation, that's been the result, and they've had to cope with it as best they can.
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MalusExcidium
The Maiden's Defender
Quote:
 
Is SE that evil?


YES! They are the SPAWN OF SATAN! FF7 is the centrepiece of a dark plot to TAKE OVER THE WORLD! We've all been brainwashed! FLEE! FLEEE FOR YOUR LIIIIIIIIVEESSSS!
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aerithstrife
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Ore wa gundam!
Quote:
 
Cloud and Aeris or Cloud and Tifa? If they cave in either way, they lose half the fandom. SE knows this. Do you think they would ever, ever consider doing that?


Actually, even if they DID cave in, I don't think they would lose any fandom. Sure, the fans may hate and pout and pout....(who hasn't done that before... :whistle: ) but they will still have their fans, loyal or not. Take any other games that fans has been disappointed in and didn't enjoy the outcome (Devil May Cry, Xenosaga,Resident Evil...etc.) and you still get the same result. Fans will buy the games no matter what they may say ( because gamers are hypocrites, I know I am when it comes to games... :lol: ) So even if SE was to go one way or another ( but it always has been one way ), it wouldn't matter. They know people will still buy their products and people know they will buy it too.


Quote:
 
Hmm...maybe I don't like this Case of Tifa because even though, maybe
it's not from his heart or something, Cloud still smiles towards Tifa, and I don't like that. In my opinion, I would want Cloud to only smile towards Aerith, but
that's just being selfish so I won't say much.


He smiles but it could be a fake smile. Or a smile that says don't worry about me. You can never tell when a person smile if its for real or their way of saying something. For me, Cloud's smile to Tifa is like saying not to worry about him. Something is bothering him yet he can't tell Tifa because she wouldn't be able to understand nor grasp the concepts. Also, friends smile at each other too. Rather its a fake one or real one. Remember in the beginning after they defeated the battle in CoT, Tifa was feeling all so gloomy because she didn't know what to do next. But Cloud smile, not at her, but far off into the distance. That's a real smile (to me) that Tifa had never saw before.
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