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| Is There A God? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 25 2005, 01:09 AM (5,979 Views) | |
| Inuyatta | Oct 4 2005, 12:59 AM Post #91 |
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Cloud/Aerith Realist
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whoo, I leave for a couple of days and lookie what I missed~ To answer Seeker, I personally refrained from commenting because I could see far too many circumstances that set up what she's seen and heard to be hoaxes--do you really think I want to tell that to a child? Of course not, she's already suffering because she can't persuade anyone else to believe her. I'd much rather just let the issue lie so that no one harbours ill feelings. Though we may have let that ship sail by the looks of it... and I'm slightly flattered that Raist was all about pimping my thoughts out in my absence, so thank you, Raist. As for Nevi, I don't think you're seeing any real darkness, but you might actually be prone to sensing chakra waves, which is pretty interesting. Being around..14ish, right? Yeah, if this it the case, it sounds about right. Sorry, that's kinda off topic, I just thought I'd comment. It's not often you come across someone potentially clairsentient. |
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| Raist | Oct 4 2005, 02:22 AM Post #92 |
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The Bringer of the Black Funeral
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God's feeling is more of a cool feeling, it gives my chill bumps. And this feeling is like something is breathing down my neck. Nevi what I have felt is what I consider to be the essence of my existence, and in its own way my God. It is certainly different to yours, but can you accept that I believe in that as strongly as you believe in your God? I have no clear defined images or workings of what I have felt, but I still feel strongly about it. What makes your feelings of a god any more valid than mine? Seeker Great. Now you're back. *sigh* *waits to have arguments shot to hell* I didn't answer Nevi's posts on miracles for the same reason Inuyatta didn't. And secondly, if a person believes they have seen something there is little to nothing I can do to convince them otherwise without rock solid proof from the time of the incident. There is no point in arguing about that. If it is about logic or reason though, there is always a point to be argued. As I'm sure you slash many of my points to shreds *sigh...again* Inuyatta Hehe no worries, just keeping the flame burning while you were gone. How is your friend by the way?
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| Seeker | Oct 4 2005, 02:35 AM Post #93 |
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Member
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:lol: Are you talking from experience, Raist? Cuz I don't remember doing that to you before o_O. Anyway, just to repeat this question (cuz I still haven't had the time to go through and type up the other responses): Would you people believe in God if you experienced and heard things like Nevi did? |
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| Onigiri | Oct 4 2005, 03:11 AM Post #94 |
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Member
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No. =/ But who knows 'til it happens right? |
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| Bless the martyr, kiss the child | Oct 4 2005, 03:31 AM Post #95 |
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Rock Chibi
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Experienceing things like that shouldn't be the only reason for someone to believe in something. I would still believe in God if I'd never seen a miracle in my life. (Even though I have) You wouldn't stand outside and say: "Okay I don't believe in this thing called 'Wind' because I've never seen it before." That's just nonsense. But somehow, that's what we've managed to say to God. I don't think this thread should be a "My God against Your God" thing, because that's not spreading the word, that's just arguing. I think we each should respect what the other person believes, but if you're going to talk about God, have a reverence to what other's feel as well. |
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| Rufus ShinRa | Oct 4 2005, 03:52 AM Post #96 |
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Member
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same.... |
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| youna | Oct 4 2005, 04:30 AM Post #97 |
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Newbie
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wow there is sooo much to digest, ive only read up to page four but this is what i believe God is the one who created everything, therefore he also created evolution, - it might be the way he created animals etc science still has flaws.. eg carbon dating isnt exactly that accurate the big bang only explains what happened not who made it happen. i read somewhere that something like a trillion to one chance that earth could have just popped into existence and sustained life like that.. it is really up to the holy spirit to change people to see the truth, so yes some of you may not be convinced by any of these "arguements/discussions" at all. it can be hard to believe there is a God for some people, but to say Jesus did not exist is silly. Jesus is the one we look to for "proof" god exists.. i once heard a speaker say: [im not sure if this is exactly what he said, cos it was like 10 yrs ago :P] if there was 99% evidence that God exists and 99% evidence that God does not exist then believing in the first is better than the 2nd cos you wont lose anything that way.. but if u believe the 2nd and the first exists.. then you have lost everything.. |
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| Raist | Oct 4 2005, 09:18 AM Post #98 |
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The Bringer of the Black Funeral
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BMKC That's just nonsense. But somehow, that's what we've managed to say to God. There is a distinct difference there. We can see evidence of the wind's work. We can see a tree blowing in its breeze and we can feel its force. And we arguably can see it when a hurricane or tornado occurs. That is the difference between the two. Many people do not feel, see, or generally experience any action of God or any proof that he exists. This is the case with most of my friends. I have felt something personally, but I still don't attribute that to the Christian God, nor Allah or Ganesh (sp? I really should learn how to spell that). Youna science still has flaws.. eg carbon dating isnt exactly that accurate Certainly, and no one here is saying it's perfect. But Science is changing and improving all the time, and at the moment is our most effective method of understanding our origins. And while carbon dating isn't perfect, it is accurate enough to give us close figures. i read somewhere that something like a trillion to one chance that earth could have just popped into existence and sustained life like that.. Once again that is true Youna. Well I'm not entirely sure on the figure but yes the possibility is very, very small. But look at the size of the universe. How many stars and thus solar systems exist. And secondly that once chance in a trillion may have been enough. That evidence is not worthy of an argument. it is really up to the holy spirit to change people to see the truth I agree. That is the only real evidence that can effectively convince someone of one thing or another. But I have a question for all the Christians here who have felt the presence of God. When you felt His presence, in whatever way that was, why did you believe it was the Christian god and not someone or something else? And when I say that I mean, why did you believe it was not Allah or someone or something else. but to say Jesus did not exist is silly Once again I agree. I'm sure he existed. But did he do the things stated? Is he, in fact, the son of god? That I'm not so sure of... if there was 99% evidence that God exists and 99% evidence that God does not exist then believing in the first is better than the 2nd cos you wont lose anything that way.. but if u believe the 2nd and the first exists.. then you have lost everything.. This is true at face value. But you forget how many different religions are. Every one of those religions says that non-believers (and this includes members of other religions) will go to some version of hell. So in truth we're all in the same boat of chance, and yes agnostics and athiests have no chance. But that is not really the point, is it? We believe in what we believe in so strongly that we are sure we're not right. As strongly as Christians believe in their god, athiests believe He doesn't exist. Who is right? It doesn't really matter does it? Personally I know I believe in something different, something more spiritual and less human and physical. Seeker Are you talking from experience, Raist? Cuz I don't remember doing that to you before o_O. *sigh* Yes perc I am. <_< It happened about 3 or 4 months ago while I was walking home with a friend one night and looking at the stars. I can't quite explain what I felt, but I know it was something outside of my own plane of existence. Since then I've been talking to Christian friends and asking how they feel God with them. I've asked muslim friends and any other religions I could find, and none of them have explained what I felt. The only people that have done it so far are George Bernard Shaw, when he talks of his life force and Inuyatta in this very topic. I really should have told you that hehehe Would you people believe in God if you experienced and heard things like Nevi did? Yes, I would and do. But that does not mean I believe in the Christian God. That is the same as asking, if Nevi had never experienced those things would she belive in God. I don't believe she would. But who are we to say until the time comes Perc. Though I know you feel we all get the chance and opportunity to feel God. |
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| Bless the martyr, kiss the child | Oct 5 2005, 01:36 AM Post #99 |
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If you can't see the evidence of God's work, you must be totally blind. Look out your window, look at the trees, the grass, the stars, even your own human body. Who do you think wove theses things together? So many people credit these things to "evolution" or "the big bang". But it is scientifically proven that the human body is far too complex to be simply evolved from genetic mutations over time. Our society has bought into this lie of "Darwinism", when the man wasn't even a scientist! He wasn't even a doctor! He was a naturalist, which really didn't give him grounds for any of his observations to be taken seriously, let alone fact! So many people easily accept these ideas because that's the "obvious" answer, but if you really look at it, it's really not that obvious. It's more theory than truth. Our world and our bodies are all models of Creation from a God that truly loves us. It amazes me that one can look at a quilt woven in a beautiful pattern and say: "Oh! I wonder who could have made this? Who stitched these pieces together to form such a lovely work of art?" But when it comes to the beauty we see everyday-the stars hung in place, the delicateness of a flower, even the fabric of our very own human bodies, we discredit it to some "big accident". |
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| Nevi | Oct 5 2005, 02:43 AM Post #100 |
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let us be lovers.
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It has nothing to do with my age. But you can call them "chakra waves" if you like, I just no that life is more than the natural. I've seen angels, I've had prophetic dreams, I've been moved to tears and laughter at the same time when God moves. I don't think this is juts something has to do with my age.
You think this is a hoax? You think I'm suffering? If I am, I'm doing it for your sake. Because I know, that I know that these things are real and you cannot change the fact that the happened and my father would NEVER lie to me. Heck, I was even there when the woman's foot grew back! I was just a small child then. Inuyatta, don't be blind. If these things happen, then they happen. It's not a hoax. That's just about as stupid as saying gravity is a hoax! I hate this spoon-fed society! Everyone is different and yet everyone is just the same. Like in a book store there was a book display advertising the book, Hippies--Originality. About 15 different people came up to the book and said, "Oh my gosh! That is SO me! I'm totally a different!" These people were spoon-fed to think that hippies were peace loving cool guys who dressed so cool. But in reality they were a bunch of rebels who were mess up on drugs, lying in the middle of the street, full of fleas cause they don't bathe, because they don't have the money to afford a place to bathe because you blow all your money on drugs. Just like the glamorous hippie lie, our society is being spoon-fed so many other crap lies. |
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| Raist | Oct 5 2005, 03:38 AM Post #101 |
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The Bringer of the Black Funeral
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Nevi You think this is a hoax? You think I'm suffering? If I am, I'm doing it for your sake Nevi I'm going to say this for the last time. You can believe in whatever you wish to believe in. You can have faith stronger than anything can break. I can accept that and do. But start to realise that we believe in what we believe as strongly as you believe in the Christian god. If you can't accept that then you do not understand the concept of empathy and any conversation with you will be incredibly difficult. Pray for our souls and wish for us to convert, but do not shove it down our throats without some form of logic or reason behind it. BKMC If you can't see the evidence of God's work, you must be totally blind. Look out your window, look at the trees, the grass, the stars, even your own human body. Who do you think wove theses things together? I believe that it is a part of something larger. And merely the physical element of a variety of realities. That is my belief and I have my reasons for it. You believe a god created it all. Athiests believe it is the wonder of our natural universe. Now if you stop to think BKMC you may realise that we ALL have equally valid arguments for our beliefs. When you have studied chemisty or physics for years you may begin to see the connection that everything has with everything else, which only makes you believe that our world is the result of a variety of factors that came together for our existence. Or you may believe it wsa created. The point, and the point that you need to realise before you start insulting anyone here, is that they are both correct, depending on where you view the world from and your own experiences. Can you please try and have a little empathy for the others here and don't insult us. So many people credit these things to "evolution" or "the big bang". But it is scientifically proven that the human body is far too complex to be simply evolved from genetic mutations over time. Would you like to show me the sources for this 'proof'. Most of that crap that is going around has been produced by creationist fundamentalists. Do you what that means BKMC? They have already decided their conclusion and now look to find proof for it. I assure you there are thousands of biologists and astrophycisists who believe that our bodies and our world have been created be chance. Who are you to say they're wrong? The point is even they are not saying they're right. But from what they know that is what they believe and nothing yet has arisen for them to change their minds. Our society has bought into this lie of "Darwinism", when the man wasn't even a scientist! He wasn't even a doctor! He was a naturalist, which really didn't give him grounds for any of his observations to be taken seriously, let alone fact! So many people easily accept these ideas because that's the "obvious" answer, but if you really look at it, it's really not that obvious. It's more theory than truth. Firstly, yes it was a theory. Yes he was a naturalist. That being said he was still a very intelligent man but I'll agree that that alone is not enough to prove his theory, certainly not. And when the Origin of Species was written no one did believe him. But it led to the study of his idea. People decided that it was worth investigating and from that the theory of evolution was formed. Stop scouting the real issue here. No one in this topic has said that Darwin was right and I've repeatedly told you that Darwin was wrong. So start reading and stop preaching. And once again I'm telling you Nevi and AerithR that WE KNOW EVOLUTION IS A THEORY. I've said it on almost every page because you keep repeating this nonsense. You just don't understand scientific observation. Everything is a theory. There are no laws or rules. There are theories that stand up against evidence against them and those that don't. And each time something arises that contradicts a theory, that theory is changed according to the new evidence we have found. The theory of evolution has changed almost inside out over the past 100 years. But nothing has yet arisen that completely contradicts it. Until that happen it is a valid scientific argument. Please read this and atleast attempt to understand it. Our world and our bodies are all models of Creation from a God that truly loves us. It amazes me that one can look at a quilt woven in a beautiful pattern and say: "Oh! I wonder who could have made this? Who stitched these pieces together to form such a lovely work of art?" But when it comes to the beauty we see everyday-the stars hung in place, the delicateness of a flower, even the fabric of our very own human bodies, we discredit it to some "big accident". But it is possible for the quilt to be an accident. A problem occurs in a piece of machinery, cloth is fed through and jumbles up and by some fluke it comes out in a pattern. That has happened to my mother before. You see how it can work in both ways. And do you know why we do so? Because their is evidene to say it was. There are known proofs that suggest that that is what happened. They are not perfect and may not be correct, but they cannot be ruled out. It always aggravates me that some Christians can still believe that the Earth is only 6000 years old. Quite frankly it's ridiculous. I have no problem with you seeing the world as a 'woven quilt' to use your example, but atleast attempt to see it from our perspective. You don't have to agree but that is not important. At the moment you are not considering our points, not reading them and not evaluating them and frankly it has become very frustrating. |
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| Inuyatta | Oct 5 2005, 08:04 AM Post #102 |
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Cloud/Aerith Realist
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I'm not blind, dear. Did you feel the woman's foot before and after for yourself? Did you see any X-rays? That's not being blind, that's being rightfully skeptical. And no, I'm not trying to make digs at your dad--I think he just wants you to have faith, which is a good thing. You've proven that already, I'm sure. But you know what, I really don't feel like getting into it with you. You've suffered recently, losing a family member and now a family friend--I'm not about to scare you just because I believe what I believe. No one is going to come out this as a winner, and there's a good chance some people are gonna leave with hurt feelings. My beliefs are just as valid as yours--let's do what I suggested before and just agree to disagree? |
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| Rufus ShinRa | Oct 5 2005, 08:47 AM Post #103 |
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Member
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how im I blind, just because I dont think the Christian God,or any god is rea? yes they may be something more out there, look a space it never ends.(what a big wall going to come out of no where XD) do you think ur god just put life on this planet? okay my point, as having a god, Religion;A function to keep humanity happy and something to live for, it helps organizes some ppl, ppl dont want to look at as there going to die, and theres nothing more for them, this is where Religion is born, Humans made it up, so they could have the idea that there still be alive in another place,time, world so if time cant exist nether can god. PPL say that god made Time earth and living things I say... Big bang= Earth Earth=Evolution Evolution=Humans Humans=Religion Religion=makes ppl happy |
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| Hyper-Ballad | Oct 5 2005, 02:23 PM Post #104 |
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Heroine addict since 1997
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Excellent point. I think you've just hit on one of the fundamental differences in the creationist and atheist approaches to science, Raist. Creationists have already reached their conclusion before doing their research wheras scientists who study the theory evolution for the sake of knowledge do the research and then reach the conclusion most logical to them. It's the difference between forming a theory to make sense of the facts and looking for facts to justify a theory. |
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| Raist | Oct 6 2005, 09:28 AM Post #105 |
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The Bringer of the Black Funeral
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*loudly applauds and echoes Hyper Ballad*
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How is your friend by the way?



2:08 PM Jul 11