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Is There A God?
Topic Started: Sep 25 2005, 01:09 AM (5,982 Views)
Sir DQ
hmm...
Outlook seems doubtful
Most of that is physically impossible with the only thing to prove it happened the way you said it is your word,
I'm not saying your lying, just that memories are faulty, and people are easily duped, also the human mind can work wonder if it's led to believe it can.
But what do you mean the infection 'fell out' of your ear?
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Prince Roxas
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Just a Nobody
I'm in the middle, I can't decide whether there seriously is a God or not. In terms of the Bible, I do not believe what they say of God existing and creating absolutely everything that is the planet, the Third Earth.

There are many, many and many planets out in the entire universe, Earth may be unique as it supports life but I do not believe that he created Earth. The planet was born as the time for its existence came forth and thus it was created and slowly began to grow, as it is still doing.

There is also many other things, but I do not totally believe in him. I do see him as maybe as an idol or a belief who guides the followers of Christianity. They are his children but I only see Chistians as his children.

However I do not like how it is debated about his existance and the Bible is always somehow involved. The Bible does not always need to be involed, such as the explanations that Nevi gave which I truly respect.

I cannot see how we are all God's children is homosexuals are "sin" still.
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EnglishRose
Unregistered

Inuyatta
 
point one: Wrong. Asians bow to each other all the time as a sign of respect, not subserviance. You took the bible too literally.


You can never take the Bible too literally. You can only take things the wrong way. ^_^ Also, when Asians bow to eachother, they have a form of understanding, e.g. it is a sign of greeting. When bowing to Gautama, or Buddah, you are showing appreciation, but also, you are bendind the knee to an image that cannot think, or talk for itself. It is a carved image. God says not to bow to them. But you're an educated Buddhist. ^_^ Do you believe in the Bible? It's an honest question. :huggle:

Inuyatta
 
point two: Inaccurate. If the Bible is unchanging, why are there so many versions of it? A little bit is taken out and re-translated and re-interpreted each time.


I believe nevi took care of that one. ^_^

Inuyatta
 
Christianity is considered a religion because there are actual icons to worship in that line of faith.


As you corrected me on your education; I will correct you on out Faith. Christianity is not a religion. A better description of Christianity is faith. ^_^


Leon Geeste
 
There is also many other things, but I do not totally believe in him. I do see him as maybe as an idol or a belief who guides the followers of Christianity. They are his children but I only see Chistians as his children.


God is not an idol. :) God is God, and He is the Creator, Supreme Being, the Designer, and the Maker. He is not a belief either. He is Himself. ^_^

Leon Geests
 
However I do not like how it is debated about his existance and the Bible is always somehow involved. The Bible does not always need to be involed, such as the explanations that Nevi gave which I truly respect.


I don't mean disrespect, but even though Nevi didn't really mention the Bible, it is still a guide for Christians to follow, and is the basis os science itself. ^_^

Leon Geeste
 
I cannot see how we are all God's children is homosexuals are "sin" still.


The reason why is, that God did not create humans to be in love with people of the same gender. It was not intended; yet after the Fall of Man, many bad things and things that are sinful came into the world, and I'm afraid homosexuality is a sin. When God created human, he didn't create man and man, or woman and woman. He created man and woman, and told them to multiply and be fruitful. ^_^

Please don't call me homophobic, cuz I'm not. I have a friend who is a homosexual, however, just because I'm freinds with them, doesn't mean I don't agree with their way of life. :)

I still respect you, leon. :huggle:
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Raist
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The Bringer of the Black Funeral
All of this couldn't pop up by chance! People have such a misconception of God! It makes me so ticked! Nevi

That is flawed logic. There is reasonable evidence to suggest that it did, in fact, come about by chance.

I don't really think there is a deity out there, persay...more like a higher cosmic force. I mean, there really isn't a 'good' or 'evil' out there--those are more like labels and concepts that humans apply to situations in order to try and comprehend them
- inuyatta

This is what I'm coming to feel. At times I can certainly feel the presence of something higher, or more spiritual than my physical aspects and desires, beyond me hedonistic thoughts. But the very concept of a God as someone who judges and decrees seems far too human for my liking, far too imperfect. That is what I find difficult to accept. Judgement in itself seems an inherent human quality. George Bernard Shaw called this concept 'the life force'.

Nobody has witnessed Evolution, I think aerithR

IIRC, they have witnessed a form of evolution at a molecular level over an extended period. Can anyone back that up?

Those are just pictures of what an animal might've looked like, just like pictures of what Jesus might've looked like.

Do you notice that you're asking us to believe in a God that we cannot see, hear or feel, yet you won't believe in evolution because you haven't seen it? Can I not have faith in evolution as you have faith in God? You can't pronounce one without the other.
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EnglishRose
Unregistered

The fact is, seeing has alot of comprehension(--I can't think of the right word :lol:) In evolution. Seeing Jesus doesn't matter, in Heaven, you're going to see Him anyway. ;) Maybe that's assumptious for some people. :lol:

I have a question for evolutionists: If we evolved from Apes, then how come we haven't evolved again? :huh:

I have also recently(today, actually) about natural selection. yep, I have been reading into it like you guys have advised. I would just like to quote from this book:

The Answers Book

"Observed changes in living things head in the wrong direction to support evolution from protozoan to man (macro-evolution).

Selection from the genetic information already present in a population (for example, DDT resistance in mosquitoes) causes a net loss of genetic information in that population. A DDT-resistant mosquito is adapted to an environment where DDT is present, but the population has lost genes present in the mosquitoes that were not resistant to DDT because they died and so did not pass on their genes. So natural selection and adaptation involve loss of genetic information."


Can I get an answer from you guys? :)

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Raist
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The Bringer of the Black Funeral
If we evolved from Apes, then how come we haven't evolved again?

Firstly evolution can take time. Especially if the species is not in a drastic situation necessary of change. The human race is certainly not having a problem with survival at the moment.

Yet arguably you can say we have changed. Look at the different races. Not just what you can see but also in stamina, resistance to different temperatures and even hemaeglobin content of our blood. These differences can all be argued in favour of evolution.

I understand that you do not have to see Jesus to believe in him, but you are saying that because we do not actually see the occurence of evolution it can't be real. Yet the fossils and other materials we see and investigate certainly are. Do you believe in gravity? That in itself is something we cannot really say. The difference between science and religion is "The bible says that god exists and he is this" -> YES IT IS TRUE!
"We've seen the effects of something we call gravity" -> We believe it might exist.

Everything in science is a theory. It is not so in religion.

And what about that DDT article are you asking?
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Sir DQ
hmm...
Is that form the site you brought up before? I know its either from a creationist or someone who is ignorant, since it uses the term macro evolution, there is no such thing
Yup, looked it up, it's a creationism book,
AR, you aren't going to learn anything until you look at actual facts about evolution, like the links I gave you before.
Seriously, if these things I'm reading on the net are really anything like whats from the book, it's a total piece of trash
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Inuyatta
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Cloud/Aerith Realist
AerithR
Sep 28 2005, 05:02 PM
Inuyatta
 
point one: Wrong. Asians bow to each other all the time as a sign of respect, not subserviance. You took the bible too literally.


You can never take the Bible too literally. You can only take things the wrong way. ^_^ Also, when Asians bow to eachother, they have a form of understanding, e.g. it is a sign of greeting. When bowing to Gautama, or Buddah, you are showing appreciation, but also, you are bendind the knee to an image that cannot think, or talk for itself. It is a carved image. God says not to bow to them. But you're an educated Buddhist. ^_^ Do you believe in the Bible? It's an honest question. :huggle:

...


Leon Geeste
 
I cannot see how we are all God's children is homosexuals are "sin" still.


The reason why is, that God did not create humans to be in love with people of the same gender. It was not intended; yet after the Fall of Man, many bad things and things that are sinful came into the world, and I'm afraid homosexuality is a sin. When God created human, he didn't create man and man, or woman and woman. He created man and woman, and told them to multiply and be fruitful. ^_^

Please don't call me homophobic, cuz I'm not. I have a friend who is a homosexual, however, just because I'm freinds with them, doesn't mean I don't agree with their way of life. :)

I still respect you, leon. :huggle:

Trust me, People take the bible TOO literally. Well, perhaps not all.

Do you still eat seafood?

AerithR, just take my word on the bowing. Being asian myself, I actually know why it's done. Buddhists do not worship anyone, but you can misinterpret the gestures all you want, I suppose. As for me believing in the bible, what's there to believe? I know it exists, it's a book! :P


As for your debating whether or not Christianity is a faith/religion, I'll let it go and trust that you've studied it enough to at least have that straight. :D

I won't call you an outright homophobe--but at the same time, doesn't your bible say 'judge not, lest ye be judged'? You may not agree with it, but it's also not your place to approve/disapprove of it and call it a sin. Besides, homosexuality has been around SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME--it's just that evidence of it was usually burned or forgotten. And also, isn't incest a sin in the bible? Someone check on that for me, because I'm sure if Adam and Eve were the only people god created, then he kinda set it up so that they'd have to sin in order to populate the Earth.

Also, how do you know that the gene for homosexuality is not a sign of evolution? It's certainly a theory that seems to hold water, considering that the world is highly overpopulated. I mean, they have already proven that homosexuality is a genetic influence, not a choice, so...

Interesting to think about, says I.
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Nevi
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let us be lovers.
Raist
Sep 28 2005, 05:09 PM
Do you notice that you're asking us to believe in a God that we cannot see, hear or feel

You can't see the wind, is it real? You can't here the mute, are they real? You can't feel time, is it real? Is someone dies you can't see, hear or feel them anymore. Did they ever exist?
You can hear God, listen. I've hear the voice of God just as if I'm hearing someone speak to me. And I've felt God, I've felt a hand on my shoulder when I was sick. And I've seen God. God is everywhere. God is everything. Just because you don't think he's real, it doesn't change the fact that he is. Even if you hate him and scoff and curse his name, he will love you until you die and after you're dead. Life is eternal, we were with God before time, we are with God during time and we will either choose to live with God after time, or live in darkness after time.
Hell isn't all fires like people think, it is complete separation from God. A place where there is no hope.
I'll say it again, more clearly this time. The world is a wonderful place, make good with the time you have, enjoy it. Rest.
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Raist
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The Bringer of the Black Funeral
The world is a wonderful place, make good with the time you have, enjoy it. Rest.

I understand that the world is a wonderful place Nevi. I am not denying that. But I do not feel that it was created or influenced by the Christian God. That is what this is all about. I do believe in some higher order spirituality, or life force if you will, but nothing so human and imperfect as the God I hear about. I enjoy my time on this planet immensely, but that is not proof of a God or of anything higher at all for that matter. I accept that you have felt that hands and presence of God, but I have not and do not believe in Him. Atleast not your Christian God.

Do you ever consider Nevi, that perhaps if you had been brought up in Israel, India or the Middle East that you may still have believed as strongly in a God as you do now, but perhaps a different God? That the God you worship, you worship out of cultural circumstances. I don't deny your faith in God, only that were you living elsewhere you may have believed in Allah or someone entirely different.

Secondly, I understand that point you make about the wind and the air. That was my point to AerithR. She is telling us that we cannot say evolution exists because we have not seen it. You're actually backing up my argument, thankyou! :D
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Prince Roxas
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Just a Nobody
Quote:
 
God is not an idol.  God is God, and He is the Creator, Supreme Being, the Designer, and the Maker. He is not a belief either. He is Himself.


I couldn't think of a word to say what I was trying to...maybe leader? :)

Quote:
 
don't mean disrespect, but even though Nevi didn't really mention the Bible, it is still a guide for Christians to follow, and is the basis os science itself.


I didn't mean that, I meant it was really enjoyable to have some evidence that God exists without the Bible being totally involved. Sure, I know that the Christians use it for that but I am pleased that when it isn't used, that personal experiences are also used for his existance.

Quote:
 
Please don't call me homophobic, cuz I'm not. I have a friend who is a homosexual, however, just because I'm freinds with them, doesn't mean I don't agree with their way of life.

I still respect you, leon. 


Hey I didn't say you were. That's great, I have respect for anyone who is wiling to say what they believe in. I respect all posters on this board whatever their beliefs.
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EnglishRose
Unregistered

hey, leon, thanks. :huggle: I wanted to make it clear with everyone else that I wasn't. <_<

Sir DQ
 
Seriously, if these things I'm reading on the net are really anything like whats from the book, it's a total piece of trash


Seriously, it was from a book. I tell ya what, when you start being nice about my beliefs, DQ, then I'll start reading properly into evolution. That sound fair? :)


Inuyatta
 
AerithR, just take my word on the bowing. Being asian myself, I actually know why it's done


Ok, I believe you. :huggle:

Inuyatta
 
I won't call you an outright homophobe--but at the same time, doesn't your bible say 'judge not, lest ye be judged'?


But I'm not the one who is saying that Homosexuality is a sin; God is.

Inuyatta
 
You may not agree with it, but it's also not your place to approve/disapprove of it and call it a sin.


But I follow Jesus, not man :P

Inuyatta
 
Besides, homosexuality has been around SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME


Well, technically since Adam and Eve sinned. All sin came into the world, as soon as they ate of the Forbidden Fruit.

Inuyatta
 
--it's just that evidence of it was usually burned or forgotten.


How do you know? What gave you that analogy?

Inuyatta
 
And also, isn't incest a sin in the bible?


Yup, it is. Otherwise, it can cause alot of health problems.

Inuyatta
 
Someone check on that for me, because I'm sure if Adam and Eve were the only people god created, then he kinda set it up so that they'd have to sin in order to populate the Earth.


But hang on---when did thet Bible say they were brother and sister? :huh: God created man---then He crreated a woman from one of Adam's ribs. "She is bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh" I know some of you are about to say then ---"Aha, that means they were both of the same flesh!!" But everyone is part of the flesh. somehow, I don't think they were related. :whistle:

Inuyatta
 
Also, how do you know that the gene for homosexuality is not a sign of evolution?


Because evolution doesn't even exist. Because that's what I believe, no offence meant ^_^

Inuyatte
 
It's certainly a theory that seems to hold water, considering that the world is highly overpopulated. I mean, they have already proven that homosexuality is a genetic influence, not a choice, so...


Could you give me an article for me to read, please? I wouldn't mind having a look. :)

Raist
 
Secondly, I understand that point you make about the wind and the air. That was my point to AerithR. She is telling us that we cannot say evolution exists because we have not seen it. You're actually backing up my argument, thankyou! :D


No, I think you may have got that mixed up. You have not seen evolution, past tense. ;) However, wind is still here, and so is time, and all those that Nevi said. ^_^

Where you there to witness evolution? Evidence? Oh? Animal that have been laid in over two layers of sediment, those same layers that were supposed to be millions of years old each? You'd think that the animl would completely decompose and disintegrate by then. ;)

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Raist
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The Bringer of the Black Funeral
No, I think you may have got that mixed up. You have not seen evolution, past tense. wink.gif However, wind is still here, and so is time, and all those that Nevi said. happy.gif

Where you there to witness evolution? Evidence? Oh? Animal that have been laid in over two layers of sediment, those same layers that were supposed to be millions of years old each? You'd think that the animl would completely decompose and disintegrate by then. wink.gif


AerithR, you're missing my point. I understand that I have not seen evolution, and scientists did not see us evolve from apes, or neanderthal man or whatever other former creature. I understand that and I accept that. However you said that you do not have to see and feel God to believe in Him, you do not have to witness his work to have faith in him. That I agree with. Why then is it so unreasonable for me to believe in evolution, based on the word of so many intelligent human beings. Who have spent their lives explaining things such as fossils and other materials.

The evidence lies in those fossils. But it also lies in other things from today. As far as I know a form of evolution has been witnessed at a molecular level, though I'll have to try and find the evidence for that. Secondly moths in England have slowly changed colour from white to black in city areas. What is one of the moth's most effective techniques of survival? Camouflage. They are black to sink in with the pollution that is turning limestone and other materials black. This is all evidence of evolution.

Now the point here is that I'm still not saying that it's absolutely right, only that it is a valid theory, and something that is constantly tested and checked. We believe it to be right, but if we discover that it is not, we will change it.

But you do not have that same flexibility, God simply exists and that is it. I am supposed to believe in the words of a variety of men, written at a time of great unrest and economic turmoil and also at a time of walking prophets. And then I am supposed to simply believe in the Christian God. Out of pure faith. Tell me AerithR, why not Allah? Why not disbelieve in Christ as the messiah altogether, after all, he never fulfilled all the prophecies set out in the Old Testament.

Why not believe in the Hindu God? Or any other God for that matter, they all exist under the same pretense. Why then do you believe in the Christian god AerithR?
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Inuyatta
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Cloud/Aerith Realist
Quote:
 
But I'm not the one who is saying that Homosexuality is a sin; God is.


LOL, that one's still being debated.

Quote:
 
But I follow Jesus, not man


Except Jesus didn't write the bible. The Bible was written by man. Therein lies the problem.

Quote:
 
How do you know? What gave you that analogy?


You might learn of it when you get to Junior and Senior themes in High School. (Have the notecards handy, they will save your life! *detested the themes*

Should be touched on when reading up about Plato, methinks. I'd be more specific, but I graduated a while back, things don't stick so well after a few years.

Quote:
 
But hang on---when did thet Bible say they were brother and sister?  God created man---then He crreated a woman from one of Adam's ribs. "She is bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh" I know some of you are about to say then ---"Aha, that means they were both of the same flesh!!" But everyone is part of the flesh. somehow, I don't think they were related. 


I take it you don't agree with science a whole lot, do you? If she came from his ribs, she would have his DNA--since you don't seem to credit science much, I don't think I'm gonna waste my time trying to convince you just how confusing that particular story sounds.

Quote:
 

Could you give me an article for me to read, please? I wouldn't mind having a look.


Sure can try. If I can't find the exact article (it'd be a couple of years old by now), I can probably find updated versions proving the same point.

http://www.bio.davidson.edu/courses/genomi...rce/gaygene.htm <---here's one, it's rather old.

http://www.skeptictank.org/gaygene.htm<--I think this one is a fairly recent experiment.

Edit: Whoops! I read through some of the new ones--they've not proven it absolutely yet, but they are noticing that genetics does play a factor: one of many, apparently.

http://www.simonyi.ox.ac.uk/dawkins/FAQs.shtml

Here's another one that speculates on evolution, homosexuality, etc etc. Make sure you've got a sandwich and nothing to do for a while when you go through these though.

And also, if preserved with the right ingredients, bodies will not disentegrate. The Egyptians should have proved that to you, sheesh. :whistle:
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EnglishRose
Unregistered

Inuyatta
 
And also, if preserved with the right ingredients, bodies will not disentegrate. The Egyptians should have proved that to you, sheesh.


Yeah, but the thing is, if every animal dies, then you'd think that a person would say, "oh no!! another animal dead!! we must get some preservatives to keep it, and so we can help prove in the future that evolution is real!!" I don't really think so. How would that animal be preserved, if it died? ;)

Inuyatta
 
Except Jesus didn't write the bible. The Bible was written by man. Therein lies the problem.


God wrote the Bible through chosen men who loved God, and God is in Three persons; God the Father, Son, and Spirit. Thus, I am following God if I follow Jesus. ^_^

Inuyatta
 
I take it you don't agree with science a whole lot, do you?


If the science you count as evolution, then yes. :P

After skimming through some of those reports, I just came to this conclusion: If Homosexuality was genetic, and was natural, then how come homosexuals can't have children? They have to be biological. When do you think we will "evolve" those genes for homosexuals to have children? :huh:

Raist
 
Secondly moths in England have slowly changed colour from white to black in city areas.


here :whistle: I know you said that it is just a hypothesis, but I'm just showing that you'll have to change it. ^_^

Raist
 
Why not believe in the Hindu God? Or any other God for that matter, they all exist under the same pretense. Why then do you believe in the Christian god AerithR?


Because the Christian God is the only one with the Gospels, the One Who was made from the backbone of most religions. But it says in the Bible that there is only one way to Heaven, and that is through Jesus. :)
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