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Is There A God?
Topic Started: Sep 25 2005, 01:09 AM (5,964 Views)
-Testament-
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Searching for my light.
Where ever it tells you we're born with sin, from what adam and eve did? Cause I can only find what tells you that we aren't born sinners. And if we are born sinners, how can sin be passed on through the ages, wouldn't you also get other sins from other generations.


No one really knows what happens when you die, people could be reincarnated. aren't people who commit such horrible deeds punished, people rot away in jail.
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EnglishRose
Unregistered

Mrs. Loz
 
goddess, what on earth makes you think that your religion rules over all of us?


You're right, religion doesn't rule over any of us. But God does.

Mrs. Loz
 
This arguement is pathetic. We are not going to convert, me and Xemnas, and you and ER arent going to read the link I bothered to post, so I think this topic should be locked.


How do you know that I never read the link? Did you ever read my post? I'm not being judgmental, but I want to know that my arguements are being read.

I don't see why this topic should be locked. :unsure: Is there a particular reason?

Xemnas
 
Does anyone know where it states we're born sinner, cause I can't find it.


You may never find it; but it says in the first book of the Bible, Genesis,


Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "

"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." ---Genesis 3:1-5


They won't die physically, but they will be Spiritually dead... "knowing good and evil." So, as soon as Man sinned, we were seperated from God, spiritually dead.

But then Jesus provided a way.

As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one; ---Romans 3:10


We are spiritually dead. We are not righteous. We don't deserve to go to Heaven.

Because we have... "sinned and fall short of the glory of God" ---Romans 3:23

Here's the part that we're talking about:

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned... ---Romans 5:12

But there's a way to get away from all spiritual death, and sin.

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. ---Romans 5:8

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. ---Romans 6:23

God has given us a gift, of Love, and Hope, through the Death of Jesus Christ. He was innocent, because He was of God, and He sacrificed Himself so we could go to Heaven. Innocent Blood had to be spilled in order for us to have a sure way to Heaven.

"Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." ---Romans 10:13

To get to Heaven, and to know God, as Him to come into your heart. ^_^ You can be saved from Hell, and you can know God spiritually, and get Eternal Life in Heaven.

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. ---Romans 10:9-10

Xemnas
 
No one really knows what happens when you die, people could be reincarnated. aren't people who commit such horrible deeds punished, people rot away in jail.


I know, for sure. I've just been talking about it. I have a sure way to Heaven, and I want to bring as many people with me as possible. ^_^

Yes, when people are going against the Law, are punished, like in Exodus Chapter 21-23. ^_^
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Toxo
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Nå kidding.
*~*EnglishRose*~*
Mar 6 2006, 05:19 PM
I know, for sure. I've just been talking about it. I have a sure way to Heaven, and I want to bring as many people with me as possible. ^_^

I wish I'd be one of them, but at this state...I don't know what to think. :sad:
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Mrs.Loz
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Pathetic lowlife
No offense, heck I probably have offended people already, but, I am not going to Heaven. Or to Hell. I am going to be reborn. I don't want to spend my Eternal Life with someone who I vividly hate.

I would rather be with people who I love, who have known me, not random people from all over the world. :)
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-Testament-
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Searching for my light.
So jesus was born a sinner. But how does sin get passed on, wouldn't other sins get passed on to?

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Deut 24.16
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Simplicity
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o_O
I dont think Jesus was born a sinner since He is human and divine. and remember, Jesus came to make a path for us to go to heaven, so nowadays, babies that get baptised will be sinless -at least that's what i think. :lol:

about the quote you put, i think it's true, like you have to take responsibility for your actions. I dont think the EXACT sin gets passed on...and besides, since adam and eve were the first humans, what they did effected us greatly, so that's probably why the people born after them had original sin. but then again -i'm probably repeating myself >_<- Jesus came to save us.
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goddess_in_pink07
Unregistered

Xemnas
Mar 6 2006, 08:30 PM
So jesus was born a sinner. But how does sin get passed on, wouldn't other sins get passed on to?

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Deut 24.16

But you have to keep in mind, that was Jesus. Thats a totally different topic.
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-Testament-
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Searching for my light.
But when God says he "created us in his image, and gave us life and breath and all things," are we to understand that he created us as sinners? When he says, "We are his offspring," are we to understand that his offspring are born sinners? When Jesus said, "I am the root and the offspring of David," are we to understand that David sprang forth from the root Christ Jesus with a sinful nature? Or, are we to understand that Jesus, as the offspring of David, was born with a sinful nature? The very fact that Jesus was a man, descended from Adam, and born with a human nature as we are, shows that men are not born with a sinful nature. I John 4:3, II John 7, Heb. 2:14, Heb. 2:16-18, Heb. 4:15, Rom. 1:3, Matt. 1:1, Luke 3:38

Are we to understand from these passages that God fashions men into sinners in their mother's womb? No, we know that God does not create sinners. Yet, upon the supposition that Psalm 51:5 teaches that men are born sinners, these texts could teach nothing else. Who cannot see that the doctrine that men are born sinners charges God with creating sinners? It represents man as being formed a sinner in his mother's womb, when the Bible clearly teaches that God forms man in his mother's womb. It represents man as coming into this world a sinner, when the Bible clearly teaches that God creates all men. It may be objected that God created only Adam and Eve, and that the rest of mankind descended from them by natural generation. But this objection does not relieve the doctrine of an inherited sin nature of its slander and libel of the character of God. For if man has a sinful nature at birth, who is it who established the laws of procreation under which he would be born with that nature? God, of course. There is no escaping the logical inference that is implicit in the doctrine of an inherited sin nature.

Credit to this nice insightful source :) Original Sin
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EnglishRose
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Quote:
 
So jesus was born a sinner. But how does sin get passed on, wouldn't other sins get passed on to?


No, He was not. Jesus was God, who came down from Heaven in the form of man. If we saw Jesus in all His true glory, we would die from the magnificence. His power is just too great for our imperfect bodies.

Jesus' human mother and father, Mary and Joseph, come from the line of David. Jesus took the form of a body of a human to come and die for our sins. He sacrificed His body and "gave up the ghost" when He died. Three days later, on Easter, He rose again and used His body for further ministry, and eventually was taken up into Heaven. However, the Spirit of God was in Him. Jesus, the Son of God, came down from Heaven in the form of a human.

Man was created in God's image, yes. We were created perfect. In His image. But then we sinned. I know that spiritually, we are not created in His image anymore.

Yes, God creates all men. He is the only one who can fully see babies being formed in the womb, he doesn't need machines or equipment, because it's His will on how a baby is formed, and when the baby is born, etc., He controls everything.

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Mrs.Loz
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Pathetic lowlife
then explain why babies are born deformed, and led to live a life of duffering? what kind of God would allow something like that to happen?
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-Testament-
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Searching for my light.
So god creates sinners.


Quote:
 
then explain why babies are born deformed, and led to live a life of duffering? what kind of God would allow something like that to happen?


suffering* I got your back :D
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Simplicity
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o_O
just because some people have some disabilities doesn't mean they're suffering. a 'normal' person is how society defines it. If you're not this and this then you're not normal. who says?

Another thing is, a lot of people think that people with disabilities are automatically sad, suffering, hopeless, etc. i dont think that's the case. It's quite the opposite if you ask me.

For example, rich people back then had to marry for relationships between families, business, or simply gain more money or reputation. When poorer people married, it's for love. Who do you think is happier, the couple that are married not because they love each other, but for familier affairs, or the couple that are not that weathly, but they love each other. I think the second one would be happier.

So yes, some people are rich in abilities and possesions, but poor in spirit. Others are poor in ability and possesions, but rich in spirit.

(it can be the opposite, but it's quite rare)
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Bremic
Member
Thr argument is won. See for yourself. :D
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EnglishRose
Unregistered

Mrs. Loz
 
then explain why babies are born deformed, and led to live a life of suffering? what kind of God would allow something like that to happen?


Because of Sin. When God created Adam and Eve, they were perfect. But then they ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, what God told them not to do. They disobeyed Him, so He cursed them, and they were cast out of the garden. They were separated from God. These things happen because of the disobedience and rebeliousness of man.

Xemnas
 
So god creates sinners


In a way. He created us perfect, but we became imperfect when we sinned.
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-Testament-
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Searching for my light.
So god is capable of creating imperfect beings, all I needed to know.

innocent little babies are born with a sinful nature, and because of their nature, are objects of God's wrath. Could anything make God more cruel and unreasonable?

Can a man really be guilty for possessing the nature with which he is born? Can God show him mercy, and pardon his guilt if it is true that he has suffered the misfortune of being born into this world a sinner? What kind of grace would it be that would save a man from the misfortune of being born into this world a sinner? It would not be grace that would save him; it would be justice. And how could a man sincerely repent and condemn himself for his sins if he believed that he was born a sinner and could not avoid sin because of an inborn sin nature?


How can a baby sin, so we are not born perfect we are only born imperfect.
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