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"meeting Her There...that Is My Dream"
Topic Started: Jun 24 2005, 07:36 PM (2,018 Views)
Clerith-son
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In the middle of dawn. Staring at the twilights.
Anastar
 
I agree with everyone that your idea is a beautiful concept, STA... but ultimately, I find it unsatisfying. :lol:

I agree with this, it has been 8 years since the game, and, an ending in wich Cloud comes to the realization that the Promised Land, so as Aerith, are in his heart, are greatly unsatisfying. I don't want him to die either, I'd rather have an scenario with Aerith reviving, we'd all like it, but it's really hard something like that is going to happen, so, if death is a way to see Cloud happy, then I'll accept it.

Hades'{angelic}daughter
 
NO!!!! Cloud can't die!!! He doesn't deserve the pain of death!!!!

...I--I mean, "we" wuv him too much!!!! :)

If death is painful, what's an instant of pain, compared to eternal happiness? If he can reach eternal happiness by dying: Would a some time of pain matter that much?

Anastar
 
Cleris understand that, but Cloti's will say, "Okay, we admit he loved Aerith while she was alive, but she's dead!!! It's healthiest for Cloud to move on, so you know he'll end up with Tifa."

And who cares what the Clotis say. And if you want to have any argument in that case, you can always say that (as they admited that he loved Aerith) Tifa was the second choice, that he'll always have Aerith in his heart, so that the LT factor will never end. It's funny how only we Clerises can get rid of the LT, while the Clotis will never be able to do that. Doesn't matter how AC ends, that's how things are.
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slowerthanaverage
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*somewhat lost*
Anastar
Jun 28 2005, 04:11 PM
Cleris understand that, but Cloti's will say, "Okay, we admit he loved Aerith while she was alive, but she's dead!!! It's healthiest for Cloud to move on, so you know he'll end up with Tifa."

Cloti's will start in on how Cloud grew to love Tifa, too, after Aerith's death, and how that was shown in the Lifestream Event and when Cloud and Tifa had hawt sex under the Highwind. They'll say it was just Cloud's lingering guilt over Aerith's death that kept Cloud away from Tifa. But now that Cloud's accepted Aerith's death and resolved his guilt, he'll move on to make babies with Tifa. I can hear it now.

But Clotis interpreted their Clotis way because, arguably, the final FMV was unclear as to whether Cloud is in love with Aerith or not.

What I want for AC, is Cloud to realise and express his deep love for the dead girl, and that even if she's dead, he would still choose to meet her in his heart, in his dreams, over someone else who's alive. I find this more poignant, then Cloud dying and sorta "have no choice" but to end up with Aerith. I want Cloud to have a choice, and to make that choice. :angel:

Do you mean Clotis can actually twist that ending I wrote out a few posts above, into a possibility that Cloud choose shack up with Tifa again? :no:

Yes, angelic, I will remarry you!!! :huggle: lmao
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Hades' Daughter
Cleris Extremist
Slower:
Quote:
 
What I want for AC, is Cloud to realise and express his deep love for the dead girl, and that even if she's dead, he would still choose to meet her in his heart, in his dreams, over someone else who's alive. I find this more poignant, then Cloud dying and sorta "have no choice" but to end up with Aerith. I want Cloud to have a choice, and to make that choice.


Exactly!!!
I wuv you... :woot:

Quote:
 
I agree with this, it has been 8 years since the game, and, an ending in wich Cloud comes to the realization that the Promised Land, so as Aerith, are in his heart, are greatly unsatisfying.


*giggles* What's not satisfying about Cloud choosing to love Aerith spiritually over loving Tifa physically? AERITH R DIES, but Cloud still chooses her over Tifa who R NOT DIES. I'd love to see the look on the faces of certain Clotis.

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If death is painful, what's an instant of pain, compared to eternal happiness? If he can reach eternal happiness by dying: Would a some time of pain matter that much?


I wasn't really being serious when I said that. Basically, I want Square to step away from the idea that one can only be happy if one can physically be with his/her love. It's why I don't really care for Cloud to die or for Aeris to be resurrected. As I've also said, Cloud doesn't deserve death. In a way, death would mean there was no solution to his problems and he finally gives up, because it is ultimately "the easy way out". I want him to live, to endure, to overcome his problems, and to finally be rewarded with Aerith at the end of it all even though she is no longer in the physical relm.
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
slowerthanaverage
Jun 29 2005, 06:02 AM
What I want for AC, is Cloud to realise and express his deep love for the dead girl, and that even if she's dead, he would still choose to meet her in his heart, in his dreams, over someone else who's alive. I find this more poignant, then Cloud dying and sorta "have no choice" but to end up with Aerith. I want Cloud to have a choice, and to make that choice.

I totally agree with your point - that Cloud should have a choice. But even if Cloud expresses his love for Aerith, the Cloti's will consider that a love he has to move on from because SHE'S DEAD!!1! If Cloud's still alive at the end, they'll still say he has to move on at some point, and that he'll end up with Tifa. I don't want that possibility left open, coz that's all we'll hear about.

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Do you mean Clotis can actually twist that ending I wrote out a few posts above, into a possibility that Cloud choose shack up with Tifa again?  :no:

Sure they can. It's a beautiful ending, and I love it... but I think they can twist it very easily. They'll just say that Cloud loved Aerith during Disk One, but he got together with Tifa in Disk Two. It was just the guilt over Aerith's death that didn't let him move on before AC. Now that he's over the guilt, there's nothing to keep him from moving on coz he loves Tifa, too.

The idea of Cloud making babies with Tifa is a greater indication of love to the Cloti's than anything Cloud feels in his heart. It's in the here and now, so it's more important to the Cloti's than anything Cloud felt in the past for Aerith (as they'll perceive it). In their eyes, spiritual love is secondary to hawt sex. :lol:
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Hades' Daughter
Cleris Extremist
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But even if Cloud expresses his love for Aerith, the Cloti's will consider that a love he has to move on from because SHE'S DEAD!!1! If Cloud's still alive at the end, they'll still say he has to move on at some point, and that he'll end up with Tifa.


Ah, poo...let them try and argue that. Unless Cloud ALSO expresses his love for Tifa in AC, there's no way they can convincingly argue that he'll move on with her because she's alive. According to them, Cloud had expressed his love for Tifa in the game. If AC doesn't even touch on their love, that would mean Clotis have interpreted the game wrong.

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It's a beautiful ending, and I love it... but I think they can twist it very easily. They'll just say that Cloud loved Aerith during Disk One, but he got together with Tifa in Disk Two. It was just the guilt over Aerith's death that didn't let him move on before AC. Now that he's over the guilt, there's nothing to keep him from moving on coz he loves Tifa, too.


True...but again, only IF Cloud ALSO expresses his love for Tifa in AC. According to how some of us would like the movie to end though, Cloud walks AWAY from both Tifa and companions saying that he won't be alone because Aerith is with him. He chooses Aerith. Let the Clotis try to argue that THAT indicates Cloud's LURVE for Tifa.... :lmao:

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The idea of Cloud making babies with Tifa is a greater indication of love to the Cloti's than anything Cloud feels in his heart. It's in the here and now, so it's more important to the Cloti's than anything Cloud felt in the past for Aerith (as they'll perceive it). In their eyes, spiritual love is secondary to hawt sex.


They can dream up the idea that AFTER the movie, Cloud somehow falls in love with Tifa and ends up making babies with her: fanfiction. I could care less because IF the movie were to go according to STA's idea, what Cloud feels for Aerith isn't in the past because he walks away "with her" at the end of it all. Not only that, but the only one he expresses his love to, in the movie, would be Aerith. I think it would work out very nicely for Cleris. :cleris:
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Tacofoolio
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We are number one. All others are number two, or lower.
I've got to say that I think he already has realized he has Aerith in his heart... and that's the point he's already been at. I think it hasn't been enough for him though. I think that is why he's searching for the promised land. I think he has earned a time to die and finally be happy with her. He saved the world once, and is going to again. I don't see his death as a cop out, or giving in. Not fighting and letting Geostigma take over him would be the cop out. I see the ending you proposed leaving us at where we figured he already was before anything about AC. I can see him still trying to find the promised land and never being quite satisfied in his life, because although he can feel the connection, he can't hold her or touch her or kiss her. Even though love doesn't need to be physical to exist, you still will inevitably will desire it. Kinda like a long distance relationship even, I could always call, but I still wanted more. I think that for Cloud's complete happiness, he needs to finally have that.
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
Hades'{angelic}daughter
Jun 29 2005, 02:44 PM
According to them, Cloud had expressed his love for Tifa in the game.

Exactly... so they will claim it still exists because it was shown in the game. Cloud won't even have to express love for Tifa in AC. If there's anything that even slightly hints that Cloud cares about Tifa in AC, they'll see that as indication that his love for Tifa still exists. They'll just argue that he loves Tifa, too.

I can almost guarantee that they will find some way to twist the whole thing around unless he's dead and therefore unavailable to Tifa for a future relationship.
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Clerith-son
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In the middle of dawn. Staring at the twilights.
Hades'{angelic}daughter
Jun 29 2005, 02:14 AM
*giggles*  What's not satisfying about Cloud choosing to love Aerith spiritually over loving Tifa physically?  AERITH R DIES, but Cloud still chooses her over Tifa who R NOT DIES.  I'd love to see the look on the faces of certain Clotis.

It's not satisfying, if you put yourself in Cloud's shoes. He's always been alone, he wanted to be noticed, but every time he tried he failed, he thought he was a complete loser. Then he finds Aerith, she sees him as a hero, for the first time in his life he actually feels imprtant for someone, and found someone with whom he could be himslef, the real Cloud.

He lost her, and even if he has her in his heart, physically, he'll be alone.

Hades'{angelic}daughter
Jun 29 2005, 02:14 AM
I wasn't really being serious when I said that.  Basically, I want Square to step away from the idea that one can only be happy if one can physically be with his/her love.  It's why I don't really care for Cloud to die or for Aeris to be resurrected.  As I've also said, Cloud doesn't deserve death.  In a way, death would mean there was no solution to his problems and he finally gives up, because it is ultimately "the easy way out".  I want him to live, to endure, to overcome his problems, and to finally be rewarded with Aerith at the end of it all even though she is no longer in the physical world.

Dying, not necesarilly implies, that he didn't found any solution to his problems, or that he gave up life. He can die in the movie beacuse of fighting, beacuse he wanted others to have, what in life, he couldn't fully have. Also, he can die happilly, because he might be able to meet Aerith. I think that if he decides to fight, after he wanted to die (as we have seen in the trailers), that means that he has already started to overcome his problems. So, if he dies at the end, then death, in Cloud's case, can't be named as "the easy way out".
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Hades' Daughter
Cleris Extremist
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Exactly... so they will claim it still exists because it was shown in the game. Cloud won't even have to express love for Tifa in AC. If there's anything that even slightly hints that Cloud cares about Tifa in AC, they'll see that as indication that his love for Tifa still exists. They'll just argue that he loves Tifa, too.


Cloud chooses Aeris when he walks away from Tifa and companions. He says he's no longer alone because Aeris is with him and has always been. You hear Aeris's voice saying: "let's go, Cloud..." as he hops on Fenrir and speeds away into the sunset... :fangirl:

I'll only laugh at Clotis if they attempt to ALSO turn this ending into a Cloti ending.

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He lost her, and even if he has her in his heart, physically, he'll be alone.


It's only a problem if being physically there with someone is important to you. STA and I just think spiritual love happens to be the greater of the two.

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Dying, not necesarilly implies, that he didn't found any solution to his problems, or that he gave up life. He can die in the movie beacuse of fighting, beacuse he wanted others to have, what in life, he couldn't fully have. Also, he can die happilly, because he might be able to meet Aerith. I think that if he decides to fight, after he wanted to die (as we have seen in the trailers), that means that he has already started to overcome his problems. So, if he dies at the end, then death, in Cloud's case, can't be named as "the easy way out".


*shrugs* I guess that could work too. When it all comes down to it, it just depends on how you view spiritual love VS physical love. I don't exactly wanna debate on this because it's only a possibility...and perhaps one that Square isn't even considering.... :)
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
Hades'{angelic}daughter
Jun 30 2005, 08:39 AM
It's only a problem if being physically there with someone is important to you.  STA and I just think spiritual love happens to be the greater of the two.

I agree that spiritual love is the greater of the two, but Cloti's don't. That's why I think they'll twist the meaning of STA's ending into something it wasn't meant to portray. I think they need something more concrete before they will accept it.

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I don't exactly wanna debate on this because it's only a possibility...and perhaps one that Square isn't even considering....   :)

Don't consider this a real debate or anything. We're just discussing ideas. :rolleyes:
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Hades' Daughter
Cleris Extremist
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I agree that spiritual love is the greater of the two, but Cloti's don't. That's why I think they'll twist the meaning of STA's ending into something it wasn't meant to portray. I think they need something more concrete before they will accept it.


I understand what you mean. I think the Cloti idea has been around for such a long time, that unless Cloud were to actually STATE that he doesn't love her will the Clotis be able to accept that Cloud never did, not even during the game itself.

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Don't consider this a real debate or anything. We're just discussing ideas.


Awww...you guys know I wuv you, Aly... :huggle:
I know it's not a real debate and just a discussion, but it was my way of apologizing because it was starting to sound like I was pushing for an idea that maybe isn't even being considered by Square. STA and I would like an ending...that will be a slap to the faces of those Clotis and their 1!1!1!1!AERITHRDIED1!1!1!1!, that's all... *giggles*
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
Hades'{angelic}daughter
Jun 30 2005, 07:53 PM
I understand what you mean.  I think the Cloti idea has been around for such a long time, that unless Cloud were to actually STATE that he doesn't love her will the Clotis be able to accept that Cloud never did, not even during the game itself.

Yeah... they'll just find a way to twist anything that's abstract. They need something more concrete, like a kiss, before they're convinced. That's why I'd rather see something more like Cloud reunited with Aerith like this in this Lifestream:

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/junk/g/ff/webcomic/...r/mother33.html

I also think it'd be awesome to see the hand reach scene re-enacted, but this time Cloud is able to take her hand to show what would have happened in FFVII if he'd been able to take her hand. It would show what the hand reach scene was supposed to mean in the game.

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Awww...you guys know I wuv you, Aly...   :huggle:
I know it's not a real debate and just a discussion, but it was my way of apologizing because it was starting to sound like I was pushing for an idea that maybe isn't even being considered by Square.  STA and I would like an ending...that will be a slap to the faces of those Clotis and their 1!1!1!1!AERITHRDIED1!1!1!1!, that's all...  *giggles*

Awww... you know I wub you too, Angelic! :huggle: It's hard to say what Square will do. I love STA's ending, but I just don't think it'll be convincing enough to Cloti's.
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~Cleara Aura~
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What bothers me is that Cloud is probably not thinking of meeting her in AC with what's happening.
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Wingless
devil's charm
Never fear, Cleara Aura. :) Of course he wants to meet her. Nothing has changed. I am sure we will at least have several dream sequences with her, and the finale will definitely have her in it. Cloud has other motives, of course. But never forget the line: "I don't think I can save anyone. Not family, friends, no one." Obviously he's still feeling terrible about not being able to save his mother (family), not being able to save Zack (friends), and then the mysterious no one! Well, who is the most important person to Cloud? Obviously Aerith is the "no one", the one who is the most important, the one he could not save. And isn't there a scene where he's holding his arm, where the ribbon of remembrance of her is? And he's living in her church. :) All good evidence to show that he has not forgotten her and is still thinking of her. Even if he thinks of other things, she is still in his heart.

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I love STA's ending, but I just don't think it'll be convincing enough to Cloti's.


I love the idea of that ending as well. Espeially if it's after the final dream sequence, when we get to see a Cloud and Aerith kiss. :) Anastar, we could have both in the film! The pretty ending, and a definite end to the love triangle. That would be so perfect. I think, between STA's ending and a dream sequence kiss or hug or something, the CloTi's would accept that Tifa is just Cloud's friend. I don't think they're that rabid, and if they are, who really cares? Lots of people like uncannon couples. :) And I think the "Cloud Smiles" song fits perfectly with both ideas: a final dream sequence, and STA's pretty ending. And then we'll get a smile from Cloud as he looks up at the sky, and then credits galore. :)
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Anti-R
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the girl who becomes a prince
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What bothers me is that Cloud is probably not thinking of meeting her in AC with what's happening.


Not exactly... Cloud staying in her church is one thing. And his "But I let her die..." quote. And him baring his soul to Aerith regarding seeking forgiveness, something that probably her and Vincent were the only ones whom he had the courage to tell out loud.
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