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Final Fantasy 8; ...Liberi Fatali...
Topic Started: Feb 18 2005, 07:04 PM (1,201 Views)
Hyper-Ballad
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Heroine addict since 1997
A thread for FFVIII-related discussions! :rolleyes:

Personally, I think FFVIII is my least-favourite FF game. I felt very univolved in the events and characters and I have very limited patience with Squall... <_<

But there was a lot of cool stuff about it too!

1) While a lot of the music passed me by, the ones that had an effect on me (mostly the Sorceress-related pieces) were AMAZING. The ones that stood out were above and beyond in terms of power and quality.

2) The Sorceress storyline in general really interested me. I thought it was brilliant, and very, very cool. I love anything and everything to do with them.

3) The Rinoa = Ultimecia theory. Wow...

4) The ending. I love the succession scene with Edea, the surreal and symbolic FMV sequence, Rinoa finding Squall, Laguna's ending, the Posse's ending, the video-camera sequence (LMAO!)...all of it. Brilliance! :D

5) Last but not least...Laguna. Definitely my favourite character in the game and his story was my favourite element within the game. I loved the dream sequences, and I was really involved in and touched by his story. Kiros, Ward and Ellone were great too, and I adore his relationship with Raine. I actually felt that I had a much stronger sense of them as characters than those of the younger generation, so maybe that's why I'm more attached to them (or maybe it's because they rock). I don't see much about Ellone on these days, but I always thought she was one of the game's most fascinating characters. But seriously, Laguna's full story could easily make up an RPG game all in itself, in my opinion. Well I'd pay good money to see the whole story, anyway... ::sends Laguna-lovin' vibes towards SE:: Of course, the ending would be rather depressing though, until things are resolved nearly twenty years later. But dammit, I want to see it done anyway! ::hugs Laguna::

Agree with me? Disagree? Come here and talk about it! ^_^
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Onigiri
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I didn't really like the Squall x Rinoa development....Squall would be 'whatever' one second, and suddenly 'I can't live without her!!' the next....I didn't see much development at all between the two, instead they just suddenly fell in love...But I liked the intro and ending...The battle system was...interesting...but made the game way to easy.
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Kusari Yarou
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Awww, I think FF8 is the most underrated FF game. The thing is, "the love story" which is the theme that the game revolves around isn't very powerful. It was supposed to be the center of the game but it failed to move me the way a lot of other love stories have.(Cloud and Aeris for instance)
But FF8 has it's moments. I love that "Orphanage Gang " part where they find out they actually all grew up together! It was so touching and seeing them as kids gave me a warm, fuzzy feeling inside. And i love the part in the basketball court after they remember their time in the orphanage. Snow suddenly starts falling and someone(I think it was Quisty) says "A gift from the faeries"
Awesome.

Quote:
 
I have very limited patience with Squall...

"It seems quiet in there. It's not. It's deafening"
-Buffy Summers, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

The above line is basically the way I see Squall. Cold, silent loner on the outside, an emotional kaleidoscope on the inside. He may not have developed much in terms of words but the way he developed in his thoughts is astounding.
I've mentioned this in the "Whatever" thread: Squall seems like a coldhearted jerk who doesn't open up much to people in the game. Not even with Rinoa! He only opened up to her while she was a vegetable which is not really ''opening up" is it? :D But when a player sees how his thoughts and emotions slowly but surely evolve, how his past experiences play so much a part in the person he is,how confused and lonesome he really is...well you get the picture :P Well, when i saw all that, he became much more humane and well-rounded

Quote:
 
Laguna. Definitely my favourite character in the game

...which brings me to one of the most frustrating things in the game. Square never said outright that Laguna and Squall are father and son but there are enough clues to make it glaringly obvious. For instance, that Ward-Kiros thing where they say "You look like your mother" "Good thing you don't look like your father". And then Laguna says "We'll have a talk after this" Awww, a father-son talk! It's just too bad that Square never developed this particular part of the story.

FF8 had many aspects which could have been fleshed out and made the story more deep and emotionally satisfying than turned out. They could have dissected the different characters in the "Orphanage Gang" They could have dug deeper into the Squall-Laguna father/son relationship. But no, those factors and many others were shoved into the shadow of the love story. And I suppose that's what makes FF8 so underappreciated- it could have been, it should have been but it wasn't.

Has anyone here read The Promise of Nightmares? It is my absolute favorite FF8 fanfic, a wonderful illustration of how some fanfics can be better than the game itself. Here's the link
The Promise of Nightmares
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UsagiMamoru
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I loved Final Fantasy VIII. The plot was great, the sorceress thing was cool, the love story was great. I liked Squall and Rinoa and Seifer and all the characters. Seifer was great. Squall and Rinoa's love story was great. Their are a lot of plots that could have been extended. Perhaps they could've used disc four to delve further into the character's lives and resolve things and make a fifth disc for the big battle. I also wish we learned more about Seifer's past. Squall and Seifer seemed like best friends before they became ricals. I liked Squall and Seifer and Rinoa. I think their should've been a scene where Seifer find sout abotu Squall and Rinoa's relationship and gives him their blessing and we find out about Seifer and Rinoa's summer together. The sorceress thign was great and interesting. I loved Squall and Rinoa's story, but I wish they added a few lines, like Squall getting jealous or something cute like that. Squall and Rinoa got together on disc three, I wish they had gotten together earlier, like on disc two, so you'd see their relationship more.

Before Squall and Rinoa got together, you could see Squall's feelings develop deeper if you got the correct date, in which Squall opens up to Rinoa and Rinoa tells him, we all love you, and Squall stays with Rinoa. Also, ebfore they got together, during the garden battle, that's when Squall first realized his felengs. I loves Squall and Rinoa's relationship when they were together. When they first got together and their scene on the Ragnorak, The Eyes on Me scene, Squall letting her keep his ring, their hug in the sorceress's memorial, their kiss, their promise. I liked how they had so many sweet scene safter they got together. They had so many great scenes together as a couple. I remember, during FF: THe Spirits within, I was reminded of Squall and Rinoa's romantic scene on the Ragnorak when Aki and Grey had their scene on the ship. In the original version, Aki tells Grey that she's pregnant with his child before he dies . Squall and Rinoa did spend the night together on the Ragnorak. It'd be funny if someone mentioned, what did you two do all night in space, and Squall got all adorable and started blushing. That could've been a great scene.


Imagine


Zell: So Squall, how long did it take you guys to get down from then ship?

Squall: Um... we were in there the whole night.

Zell: The whole night?

Squall: Yeah.

Zell: Squall, did you-

Squall: ZELL! *blushes* *Covers Zell's mouth*

Others: What was that? Squall and Rinoa were alone on a ship all night together?

Squall: Yeah... *blush* We...

That would've been a good added scene. Squall and Rinoa are such a great couple.
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Kusari Yarou
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Quote:
 
It'd be funny if someone mentioned, what did you two do all night in space, and Squall got all adorable and started blushing. That could've been a great scene.


Imagine


Zell: So Squall, how long did it take you guys to get down from then ship?

Squall: Um... we were in there the whole night.

Zell: The whole night?

Squall: Yeah.

Zell: Squall, did you-

Squall: ZELL! *blushes* *Covers Zell's mouth*

Others: What was that? Squall and Rinoa were alone on a ship all night together?

Squall: Yeah... *blush* We...

That would've been a good added scene. Squall and Rinoa are such a great couple


Usagi Mamoru, there is a very similar scene in "The Promise of Nightmares" to what you're envisioning.
And in that fic, Squall and Rinoa really do do it on a ship :/ Loved that fic but I was kind of queasy with that part of the story.
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Andina
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~Absurd~
Looks like you've been busy, Hyper-Ballad, creating discussion threads for nearly every FF game so far. :lol:

Nothing wrong with that though. I did write a very long reply why I love FFVIII so much...but then I somehow managed to delete it. <_<
So while I gather the energy to write it all again, I will just say that I love this game as much as I love the others. :D
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Shiva
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Andina
Feb 25 2005, 10:27 AM
So while I gather the energy to write it all again, I will just say that I love this game as much as I love the others. :D

Agreed. I love FFVIII. I thought the plot was interesting and seeing Squall and Rinoa together was like getting a chance to see Cloud with Aerith again. The two couples are very similiar. :D
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
I loved FFVIII, and I agree that it's a very underrated game. I completely agree with what Kusari Yarou said about Squall:

Kusari Yarou
 
The above line is basically the way I see Squall. Cold, silent loner on the outside, an emotional kaleidoscope on the inside. He may not have developed much in terms of words but the way he developed in his thoughts is astounding.
I've mentioned this in the "Whatever" thread: Squall seems like a coldhearted jerk who doesn't open up much to people in the game. Not even with Rinoa! He only opened up to her while she was a vegetable which is not really ''opening up" is it?  But when a player sees how his thoughts and emotions slowly but surely evolve, how his past experiences play so much a part in the person he is,how confused and lonesome he really is...well you get the picture  Well, when i saw all that, he became much more humane and well-rounded.

I thought Squall's character development in the game was fascinating, and I really enjoyed his character. I loved the way they developed how his past as a child had affected him and how he was so detached from the others basically out of a fear of being alone. Even his inablility to get back to the others through time compression was due to that fear, which showed him to be a vulnerable person beneath his hard exterior. Besides that, he's such a bish!! *drool* :lol:

I really enjoyed most of the story. What I *didn't* enjoy was most of the characters. Most characters in the story besides Squall drove me absolutely up the wall. :lol: If anything turned me off to the story, it was the characters. The only characters I enjoyed in the story were Squall, Rinoa, Irvine, Edea, and Ellone. I could tolerate Kiros, Raine, and Quistis, but I wasn't at all fond of them. Sorry to anyone who enjoyed the other characters, but the other characters drove me crazy. <_< The dream sequences to me were absolutely the worst part of the game. I groaned every time one of them started up, and I couldn't wait to for it to end.

I thought the part about the sorceresses was very well done and I really enjoyed that part of the story. I loved the part about Ultimecia's castle at the end and the element of time compression. The part about the orphanage was very good, too, and how they all used to live together but didn't remember it. I loved the part about Seifer leading Abel's army against the Garden and the attempt to assassinate Abel at the end of Disk One. There were several subquests I enjoyed, too, such as going into Odin's castle and the one beneath the sea (what was it called?). The junctioning system was okay once you got used to it, although I thought it was rather cumbersome.

Rinoa and Squall's love story didn't have as powerful an effect on me as CloudxAerith and TidusxYuna. It was too predictable for it to have any real impact on me. It was lovely enough and I was happy to see Squall together with Rinoa in the end, but their story just didn't touch my heart in the same way CloudxAerith and TidusxYuna did.

And last of all, I loved the music. There's many songs from FFVIII that I absolutely loved.
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Nya
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Well, a lot of people seem to dislike FFVIII for some reason. It's either they can't stand Squall, the battle system or the whole uhh sorcerers thingy. I actually like FF8's plot, I don't see anything bad with it. But most girls I've seen like FF8, it's a 'girly' game? XD I actually don't like the couple SquallxRinoa, there was a time where I disliked Rinoa, but I got over it the third time I played the game. I never really examined, or paid much attention to how SquallxRinoa became, to me Squall and Rinoa's relationship came off looking real forced, it didn't have the natural appeal CloudxAerith or TidusxYuna gave off, that's probably why it didn't affect me nearly as much. But I got extremely annoyed with one sidequest which is the one where you have to defeat a lot of tornberries (sp) to get the GF itself. Geez, that annoyed me!! some of the sidequests are tough but damn, they're rewarding. I still don't know how to do the library girl sidequest for Zell .. *sigh*
overall, I find FF8 to be a great game. It's the first Square game I played, so I've got special love for it. and since FF8 was also the first game I ever completed, played, touched .. it wasn't very easy to play. The ending, I had to defeat Ultimicea with all 90++ above levels and I almost died too. Ah, but in the end the game's satisfying.
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Aprillis
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DoS King
Since it was the first FF game I've ever played, so I'd have to say I LOVED this game.

But they could have done so much with the plot. I enjoyed the "history" of the FFVIII's world (although it was so brief it could fit into a molecule). I was especially interested in the Centra Ruins, Tears Point, the way the people of Centra got wiped out when Galbadia started to flourish, and especially the Soceress history.

If they focused more onto that, I'm sure they would have made FFVIII into a great game.

And am I the only one (in my delusional brain) that believes that Square really intended to use that Ultimecia = Rinoa theory but crapped it last minute? Cause there's a big plot hole involving Ultimecia and her reasons to compress the world (besides taking over the world, of course), and I don't like that.
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Kusari Yarou
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Quote:
 
And am I the only one (in my delusional brain) that believes that Square really intended to use that Ultimecia = Rinoa theory but crapped it last minute?

Reaaally? Care to go deeper in that theory?

As for me, I don't like the fact that they never went deeper into the Squall-Laguna relationship. I mean Laguna was an important part of the game and i was waiting for he and Squall to have a father-son talk... but Square probably scrapped it to give way to the love story. Sighhh :cry:
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Aprillis
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DoS King
The theory's wacky. It starts something like this:

- Let's just say that in Universe One, after Rinoa's mom died when she was 5 years old, she was embittered with life and couldn't get along with her father. Since Ultimecia never existed around this time (cause Rinoa is Ultimecia), she never meets Squall because he wasn't a SeeD because SeeD was never established because Edea was never possessed by Ultimecia BECAUSE Ultimecia never existed. (does it makes sense?)

- Maybe she's somehow inherits the soceress powers from Adel. Maybe after all the years she gets corrupted with the power and in the far future, she decides to compress time so that she can live in the present forever. She uses the perfected Super-Junction-Ellone machine to reach back into the past to capture Ellone and compress time, but things go horribly wrong.

- So around this time the universe splits into two.

In Universe One: Time is compressed, but she is thrown into another universe, Universe Two since she can't really go back in time in Universe One because it would clash with the events that brought her there.

In Universe Two: A new universe that doesn't have (yet) the events in Universe One. Ultimecia doesn't exist in this universe, but could exist in the future. A dying Rinoa/Ultimecia passes her powers to Edea, and then SeeD is established by Edea and Cid in order to defeat Ultimecia when the time comes.

- The game proceeds as usual, only since Ultimecia never exists in this new universe, the events in the Lunatic Pandora and the Time Compression never happens. Squall and gang live happily ever after.

- But somehow things go wrong. Rinoa becomes corrupted with the powers, and Squall decides to stay with her and become her soceress' knight. Rinoa, wanting the time to remain the same in order that her and Squall can be together, goes back into time to capture Ellone. By going back into time, she is now known as a soceress from the future. But imagine, she finds her younger self and younger Squall here at her castle to kill her!

- Younger Rinoa and Squall defeats Ultimecia, but somehow Squall never finds his way out of the time compression. Rinoa, being embittered that Squall never returned to her, (in the far future where she is corrupted with Ultimecia's powers) decides to reach into the past in an effort to bring him back. He returns in a much altered form... (Griever perhaps?)

- Then younger Rinoa and Squall arrive to kick her butt again. Ultimecia dies, Squall returns from the time compression safely, and they lived happily ever after. Only they don't; Rinoa becomes corrupted and reaches back into time to capture Ellone in order to live in the 'present' with Squall...

- Oh, and there's this conversation of Rinoa and Squall that was pretty... strange.

Rinoa: What'll become of me?

Squall: Don't worry about it. There've been many good sorceress. Edea
was one. You can be like her.

Rinoa: But Edea's still... I can't guarantee anything, either, if Ultimecia
possesses me again... You saw me. She controlled me in outerspace and made me
break Adel's seal. What might happen next time? What will I end up doing? Will
I end up fighting everyone? ...Scary thought, isn't it?

Squall: (Rinoa......) (Even if you end up as the world's enemy.) (I'll...)
(I'll be your knight.)

Rinoa: If I fall under Ultimecia's control again... SeeD will come kill me,
right? And the leader of SeeD is you, Squall... Squall's sword will pierce my
heart...... I guess it's ok if it's you, Squall. Nobody else. Squall, if that
ever happens...

Squall: That's enough! I'll never do anything like that. The sorceress I'm
after is not you, Rinoa. My enemy is the sorceress from the future...
Ultimecia.

Rinoa: Ultimecia lives in the future and possesses me. She uses my body as her
extension in this world. How will you save me?

Squall: I'll come up with something... There's gotta be a way.

Rinoa: ......

----------------------------------------------------

Most of it is based on www.gamefaqs.com Plot Analysis of FFVIII, by Sophie Cheshire. It's an interesting read.

Imagine if Square did something like that? That'll bring Squall and Rinoa's relationship to another level. More like corrupted, will-do-anything-for-that-person lovers, that is.

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Skelly
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a strange angel
:blink:

Aprillis, I didn't get many of that. I kept seeing Rinoa reaching back in time for Ellone, but it didn't seem to retain. I'll keep reading your post some time so that I can understand one day. :lol:


However, I loved FFVIII. The junction system was a bit confusing (to me!) at first, but then I got the hang of it. The graphics are MUCH better to FFVII, (:blush: You have to admit that, right?) and - I agree, FF_G - seeing Rinoa and Squall together was like seeing Cloud and Aeris together again. :wub:


And with Anastar... Squall was such a bishie!!! :wub:
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Aprillis
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DoS King
Yeah, it's kinda complicated. ^^;

Rinoa = goes to future = defeats her future self = her future self in the brink of death = goes to past = passes powers to Edea (and then Rinoa) = an endless time loop

which is parallel to:

Ultimecia = compresses time = gets defeated by younger self = younger self gets corrupted = compresses time = gets defeated by younger self = and endless time loop

Then things repeat itself over and over and over again... something like that.
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
I have a hard time believing the Rinoa = Ultimecia theory, simply because I think Square would have made it much more obvious in the game. It's more likely that they thought about it, but scrapped the idea. If Square intended for us to know that Rinoa was Ultimecia, I think it would have been presented to us as obviously as Lucrecia being Sephiroth's real mother instead of Jenova. Would a major plot element like that be so hidden?
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