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Cloud and Aerith's Portrayal; In the movie so far...
Topic Started: Dec 20 2004, 10:10 PM (874 Views)
Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
The movie isn't out yet, so things may change - but has the Film Festival premier disappointed you in any way, particularly in regards to CloudxAerith?

So far, I'm disappointed in how little we've seen of Aerith. She's been hinted at, and many of the locations have to do with her (Sleeping Forest, Church, Forgotten City, lake where she was buried). The pink ribbons have been seen, too, but I expected to see more in the way of flashbacks, or remembrance of her, or for her spirit to be actively involved in helping Cloud with Geostigma, Jenova, and/or the SHM.

I'm disappointed that the flower field scene appears to be the first time Cloud has seen her in two years. I'm disappointed that there hasn't been any indication that Cloud has tried to find her yet. I'm disappointed that - so far - Aerith has only been portrayed as a memory of guilt.

I realize this may change when the movie is actually released, but is anyone else disappointed with what we've seen of the movie so far?
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Miss Yukari
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Fabulously Lazy
Obviously, I'm disappointed that we haven't seen more of Aerith, but I have to disagree with you when you say that so far she's only being portayed as a memory of guilt. Think about it this way, why has it affected Cloud so badly? Has it affected Tifa, Yuffie, Barret and the others this way? They all knew Aerith, so why is Cloud the one who's been affected the most? Tifa and Barret knew Aerith roughly the same length of time as Cloud did, and of course they must miss her too, but not to the extent that Cloud does. Cloud thinks about her constantly, even during the time he's alone with Tifa while she's recovering from her fight with Loz. Yes, he feels guilty about 'letting' her die, but I think it's because he loves her, like with Locke and Rachel. We've seen a lot of Cloud, and he really has become miserable, thinking he let Aerith down and can't save anyone. He never said he felt like that after Tifa was injured by Sephiroth. Hadn't he let Tifa down then? Why does he feel this guilt, this pain? Why does he not seem to feel so miserable over Zack's death, why does he not feel so guilty about Tifa being injured? I haven't been disappointed with the trailers because to me, they've shown Cloud's feelings for Aerith to great effect.

I can see why lots of people feel that Cloud hasn't been looking for Aerith, that the flower field scene is the first time they've seen each other in two years, but this isn't definite, Aly. I really don't think Aerith would be so blunt with Cloud if it was the first time she'd spoken to him in two years. Maybe they haven't seen each other, but I think they've spoken. Cloud could feel her presence in the Forgotten City, and she came to him in the dream he had of the Sleeping Forest. I think there's a chance she could have done the same again. That might be why he hasn't tried to find her.

If there had been more flashbacks of Aerith, the fanboys would have complained that we hadn't seen enough of the actual film itself, and would have whined about not getting to see more of the villains and to know more about the plot. There was only one flashback of Seph, too, and he didn't show up at all after that, until the VFF trailer. I wouldn't worry too much about not seeing Aerith. There have been so many references to her that she can't possibly take a minor role. If she does, then I'll be disappointed. ;)
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Sir DQ
hmm...
To tell the truth, I've pretty much lost interest in the film.

It's just it's been so long since any exciting information was revealed, the only thing that would really spark my intrest would be some juicy info or an actual copy of the film.

So that's probaly why I have no problem that there isn't enough Aerith reaveled yet.
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Anastar
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Madame Batolli
Dec 20 2004, 11:18 PM
I have to disagree with you when you say that so far she's only being portayed as a memory of guilt. Think about it this way, why has it affected Cloud so badly? Has it affected Tifa, Yuffie, Barret and the others this way? They all knew Aerith, so why is Cloud the one who's been affected the most? Tifa and Barret knew Aerith roughly the same length of time as Cloud did, and of course they must miss her too, but not to the extent that Cloud does. Cloud thinks about her constantly, even during the time he's alone with Tifa while she's recovering from her fight with Loz. Yes, he feels guilty about 'letting' her die, but I think it's because he loves her, like with Locke and Rachel. We've seen a lot of Cloud, and he really has become miserable, thinking he let Aerith down and can't save anyone.

Those are all good points, Amy - but we've seen nothing concrete to establish that Cloud is miserable because of Aerith for any reason other than letting her die. He meets her in the flower field and immediately asks for forgiveness. He thinks of Aerith while Tifa is recovering, and his thought is, "I let her die", which again implies guilt. It hasn't been established that he thinks of her at any other time. With what we've been given so far, his misery can be excused as nothing but guilt. There has been nothing to suggest that he is miserable for any other reason. We can assume that he's miserable because he can't be her, but there's nothing in the premier to suggest that he does except for one line - the line that was given in only one Film Festival, and that we can't even establish was really in it - the line where Tifa says, "You think you'll meet her again this way? You think you would reach her by doing so?" Some people are claiming that the line doesn't even exist.
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Shen-hua
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Well, Iīm very disappointed too because I think that SE is giving rapid promotion to Tifa and, in my point of view I think that the fans of Cloud and Aerith wonīt be happy with this movie. Iīm very worried. In the original story, it is clear than Aerith is the main female character, she is part of the central plot and Tifa is only a support character that has sense thanks to the character of Cloud, I mean that if Cloud isnīt in the game, Tifa hasnīt meaning in the story. But now, Tifa has a lot of fans( and i donīt know why...) and SE doesnīt want to admit that Cloud and Aerith are the unique and true couple of the game because they donīt want to lose money. it is only marketing... Tifa is like Rikku, Quistis or the little cat girl of FFIX and this is veerryyyy obvious!!

Personally, I am not agree if they do an ending "open to interpretation", Iīm very tired of all of this. I mean, seven years has past since We played FFVII. Now they make a movie and we want to know what happened between Cloud and Aerith. If they donīt want to show us it, then donīt make a movie !! They have to show the true in this movie and that is all!!!

If they think that to make the two bands happy means do and ending "open to interpretation" they are wrong!! They will get to increase our fight!! it isnīt a solution!!



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Amore
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Lets be mature and put aside our own interest and acknowledge that SE has creative control over this project. On one hand, I also expected more Aeris and I'm a bit pissed off about the little we have seen. But on the other hand, in the end we have to realize that SE doesn't have to cater to the needs of the fans as far as who Cloud ends up with is concerned. I doubt they even see this as a matter of being pro-Tifa or pro-Aeris. In short, I really think they could care less if people end up divided over their final decision. That may or may not be in our favor. FFVII and it's characters belong to them so I understand while I can be pissy about it, I have no right to object.

I can on the other hand, decide to boycot. That's up to you and me. But remember, this movie doesn't exist to endorse pairings or prove who Cloud belongs with anyway so who knows how far they will go. I think it will have an ambiguous, but suggestive, ending.
Honestly, we cannot be sure the AC will live up to what was portrayed in KH and FFT.

We only received the promise that Aeris fans will not be dissapointed. And Nomura didn't even say fans of the Cloud and Aeris pairing, just fans of Aeris alone. So how can we be sure what that means? We can only wait and see. Kind of sucks.
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Buhon
modern-day primitive
Those are some very good points, Amore, and I agree that it'll do us all good to maintain some perspective about this whole thing. That being said, I still have this hunch that Aeris and her relationship with Cloud really will be a major factor in the movie, but Square revealing any more info about her would inevitably "give too much away"... the subtle hints really seem to suggest that (numerous Aeris-related locations, the pink ribbons, Cloud toying thoughtfull with the ribbon, not revealing Aeris' face is the "biggie" as far as I'm concerned). Also, even if Cloud has not "tried to contact" Aeris in two years, that still may have more to do with his shame at "letting her die," and not that he doesn't have feelings for her. Thus, it may not be so much that Cloud cannot reach Aeris, but that he cannot bring himself to do so because he feels so guilty (all the MORE reason for Aeris to tell him to forgive himself). So, I would only worry if we started seeing scenes that were clearly anti-Cleris in their presentation. But, since we haven't seen anything of the sort... take a deep breath for now!

Anyone else notice the coy, almost knowing smirk on Aeris' partially obscured face? That alone tells me that there are whole other aspect to the storyline that Square is keeping mum about. She clearly knows something that Cloud, and the rest of us, do not... and it looks like it'll be something big...

Quote:
 
(Anastar)  the line that was given in only one Film Festival, and that we can't even establish was really in it - the line where Tifa says, "You think you'll meet her again this way? You think you would reach her by doing so?" Some people are claiming that the line doesn't even exist.


Who has been claiming this, and based on what ambiguity in the trailer? What about the line "To see her again... that is my dream"?


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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
Buhon
Dec 21 2004, 08:30 AM
That being said, I still have this hunch that Aeris and her relationship with Cloud really will be a major factor in the movie, but Square revealing any more info about her would inevitably "give too much away"... the subtle hints really seem to suggest that (numerous Aeris-related locations, the pink ribbons, Cloud toying thoughtfull with the ribbon, not revealing Aeris' face is the "biggie" as far as I'm concerned).

I guess I'm looking at it from the perspective that Square has not given the Cleris people anything concrete. There are suggestions, but those suggestions are very open to interpretation. For example, Cloud going to the Church is a suggestion of what Aerith meant to him - yet it isn't concretely established that he goes there because of her.

I guess I'm looking at what's been presented in terms of what we can prove vs. what we can't prove, since I've been in too many debates. :lol: The first time I was asked by a Cloti to "prove" Cloud's love for Aerith, I was shocked - to me, it was so obvious in the game that I found it ridiculous that anyone would even question his love for Aerith.

That being said, I look at what Square has given us in the previews from the standpoint of "what can we prove"? So far, we've seen nothing in the previews to prove anything other than he feels guilty about Aerith's death. There is far more evidence that he was living with Tifa than there is evidence that Cloud feels anything for Aerith other than guilt - and that, to me, is anti-Cleris.

Buhon
 
Anastar
 
the line that was given in only one Film Festival, and that we can't even establish was really in it - the line where Tifa says, "You think you'll meet her again this way? You think you would reach her by doing so?" Some people are claiming that the line doesn't even exist.

Who has been claiming this, and based on what ambiguity in the trailer? What about the line "To see her again... that is my dream"?

The Cloti's have been saying that - since the only place we've seen this line is in ONE Film festival (Venice) - then it was either a mistranslation or someone not remembering the line correctly. They claim that if it were truly said in the film festival, that we would have seen it in all of them. Amore also doesn't believe it was ever said.

The line, "To see her again... that is my dream" was never in any of the Film Festivals. It was a caption in one of the Japanese magazines over a picture of Cloud and Aerith in the flower field.

Amore
Dec 21 2004, 04:19 AM
in the end we have to realize that SE doesn't have to cater to the needs of the fans as far as who Cloud ends up with is concerned. I doubt they even see this as a matter of being pro-Tifa or pro-Aeris. In short, I really think they could care less if people end up divided over their final decision.

If Square couldn't care less whether people are divided up over the final decision, then why have they been ambiguous up to this point over who Cloud loved? Why haven't they ever made a decisive comment about who the creators intended? Even when commenting on the ending of Kingdom Hearts, Nomura said that he wasn't going to make a decision for the gamers about what Cloud is like, and that the ending was left up to interpretation as a result. Of course, in the same breath, he also said that the ending was made so that it could be interpreted that Cloud was in search of Aerith in KH.
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slowerthanaverage
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*somewhat lost*
1) Cloud's last line in FFVII was that he wanted to meet her at the promised land. Now, where did we see Cloud searching for her and the promised land? FFTactics, KH... We need to see that in AC. Otherwise, they had better come up with a convincing reason why they didn't continue the trend.

2) I let her die...I want to be forgiven.......blah blah blah...
So what? Does that mean he love her? (of cos it does, if not he wouldn't have been this miserable)... However, some others/i] do not think so, they think its mere guilt. SE should clarify this in AC. Of cos, if SE comes up with the nonsense that Cloud does not love her at all, I am going to question the original game alot. <_<

3) He lives a solitary life...he runs a courier...no wait he takes care of the orphans...hmm Tifa takes care of the orphans......er...he's been living apart from former friends?
MAKE UP YOUR MIND! >.<


I kinda agree with Buhon actually...although Aerith has not been seen alot in AC so far, it is clear that her spirit is with them...the ribbons,church, forgotten city etc...and places that will remind us of her...Marlene with the pink/red ribbon...
The fact that Cloud's disposition seemed even worse than that at the end of the game tells alot...that instead of finding happiness, moving on etc, he fell into deeper darkness...
For me, it is actually a beautiful portrayal of how Aerith's spirit lives beyond her death...It can be said that Aerith's ghost is haunting Cloud all these while (metaphorically, and by haunting i meant it metaphorically too, something to the effect of her physical death leading to the death of Cloud's soul)

Sometimes the less you show a person, the stronger her impact. Like Tomoe in Rurouni Kenshin for eg. I know most Kaoru fans and Clotis hate her...hehee..why? Because even when she has so little "screentime", even if she had died 10 years ago...She still haunts Kenshin's soul...in the sense that she left a scar in his heart that would never mend (at least not until kenshin *spoilers* ahem) heehee

But for the sake of the lesser minds, SE ought to be more blunt about CLoud and Aerith relationship... otherwise, there will be neverending debates :rolleyes:...erm...I guess the debates will never end either way...:P
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
slowerthanaverage
Dec 22 2004, 05:24 AM
But for the sake of the lesser minds, SE ought to be more blunt about CLoud and Aerith relationship... otherwise, there will be neverending debates :rolleyes:...erm...I guess the debates will never end either way...:P

Well, that's the point I'm trying to make. I guess people are hearing me wrong. I agree with everyone's interpretation of why Cloud is acting this way. I'm not disputing our interpretation at all.

However - as of now - it is only our *interpretation*. As of now, I don't see that we can prove it. I'm looking for the evidence to back up our interpretation, and I see none. Unless Square clarifies it in the movie, we're going to have a very hard time backing up our interpretation, and I'm bothered by that.

As of now, we have no evidence that Cloud has met Aerith. We have no evidence that Cloud has been searching for Aerith. We have no evidence that he thinks of Aerith as anything other than a memory of guilt. We have no evidence that he is living in her church to be near her. We have no evidence that he wants to meet her without that elusive line that some think does not really exist. Square has given us very little to work with so far, and it really bothers me.
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Buhon
modern-day primitive
Honestly Ally, I wouldn't worry about "proof" or "prooving" our argument. For one thing, there will be absolutely no "proof" of any kind until the movie itself actually comes out. Secondly, what we have seen so far is very strongly suggestive of the importance of Cloud and Aerith's relationship with each other, the degree of feelings Cloud has for Aerith and not for Tifa, Aerith's central importance to the plot of the movie, etc. If the information seems ambiguous, remember that the FF7 itself could be notoriously ambiguous at times. Already to me the hints at Aerith and Cloud's relationship are much more overt than they ever seemed to be in FF7.
Remember too that Square is going to cater to Japanese fans first, and we've established that most Japanese fans understand the symbolism and who the real couple of the game is supposed to be (thus Nomura could still overtly express Cloud and Aerith's relationship without disrupting "some fans interpretations"). And even in general: when you see a man and a woman alone together in a flowerfield, and the man is constantly consumed with the thoughts of that woman, how would that scenario normally be perceived?
I understand why the need for "proof." The people who often perceive the more complex nuances of stories are often burdened with having to establish proof all the time, even while those with other interpretations aren't. Thus, because understanding Cleris requires more critical thinking, and reading of symbolism and nuances than perceiving Cloti, we are overburden with the need to document every little thing, while they get to go hog-wild and unchecked. It's not fair, but that's the way the world works. That being said, I do believe that the MOUNTAINS of circumstantial evidence in our favor will end up vindicating us in the end. Cheer up! Be happy! It's Christmas!
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Shiva
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Well said, Buhon! I think we have seen MUCH more pro-ClAeris info from AC than pro-CloTi!

I mean, what do the CloTis have going for them anyways? They have Cloud and Tifa together on an invitation. Oooooh! :rolleyes: Please, that is the lamest excuse for evidence, I swear. When one of them uses something like that for evidence, I just have to shake my head. And then I let them know that, if they are going to consider Cloud and Tifa on some piddly invitation as proof then I am going to consider the MOUNDS of other items that Cloud has appeared on with Aerith as proof. That tends to tick them off. :rolleyes: Plus, let us not forget that the tickets for a later screening showed Tifa ALONE. I guess we could turn it around on them and say that Tifa being shown alone proves that the creators intended her as a love interest to no one. :lol: *Cackles*

Let's see... What else do the CloTis have going for them? A bunch of stuff from the trailers that they believe points to Cloud living with Tifa, when it could be explained in a thousand different other ways. What CANNOT be interpreted in any other way is all of the information we have gotten in interviews and Japanese magazines that says he is NOT living with Tifa, that he is greiving over Aerith, that he dreams of meeting Aerith again, that he lives in Aerith's church, and that he has had hardly any communication with Tifa for the last 2 years. I think we have gotten a lot of pro-ClAeris info from AC so far. The news is just dead right now. <_<
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Clorith
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Queen of Sap~*
Oh well... *coughs* Minor insider info: Square Enix isn't releasing much (if any) content as they're at the point where they can't give any more without giving away too much.

Well I'm sure you could have come to that conclusion without me saying that. :lol:

Yup, so let's cross our fingers and believe that anything Aerith-related falls under that. :)

Which means she's plot-centric! Yay! :lol:
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Anastar
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FF_Goddess
Dec 24 2004, 07:19 PM
Well said, Buhon! I think we have seen MUCH more pro-ClAeris info from AC than pro-CloTi!

We don't have much in the way of provable evidence directly from the movie, FF_G, and that's what I'm griping about. Most of our evidence right now is circumstantial. The movie as it now stands doesn't prove a thing for us, and gives us little in the way of evidence. The movie itself right now gives the Cloti's far more evidence than it gives us. I'm stating that I hope this changes before the release of the movie, and that things are clarified within the movie itself because the movie itself will be the only thing people rely on for evidence once it's released. If the movie shows it differently than the interviews, then people will say that the interviews were invalidated by what the movie showed. If you look at the preview alone, we're not in good shape as far as provable evidence goes.

Clorith
Dec 26 2004, 07:01 PM
Oh well... *coughs* Minor insider info: Square Enix isn't releasing much (if any) content as they're at the point where they can't give any more without giving away too much.

So there will be nothing or little more before the release? *groan* Thanks for letting us know, Clorith - but I'm not happy to hear it. :(

Clorith
 
Yup, so let's cross our fingers and believe that anything Aerith-related falls under that.

I sure hope so, Clorith.
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Shiva
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We don't have much in the way of provable evidence directly from the movie, FF_G, and that's what I'm griping about. Most of our evidence right now is circumstantial. The movie as it now stands doesn't prove a thing for us, and gives us little in the way of evidence. The movie itself right now gives the Cloti's far more evidence than it gives us. I'm stating that I hope this changes before the release of the movie, and that things are clarified within the movie itself because the movie itself will be the only thing people rely on for evidence once it's released. If the movie shows it differently than the interviews, then people will say that the interviews were invalidated by what the movie showed. If you look at the preview alone, we're not in good shape as far as provable evidence goes.


I agree that we haven't seen much from the trailers that is pro-ClAeris. However, I do not believe that the trailers are pro-CloTi either. :rolleyes: As for proving to the CloTis that Cloud loved Aerith... some of them are so stubborn that it would literally take Cloud saying "I love you" to Aerith in order for them to believe it. So, I don't really expect this movie to change much in the world of debating. <_<
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