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Moving On...; It's what the Cloti's want
Topic Started: Dec 8 2004, 12:33 AM (1,614 Views)
Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
One ridiculous thing I keep hearing is that Aerith will tell Cloud to move on to be with Tifa in Advent Children. In general, the Cloti's have a hard time distinguishing between what they want to happen and what is likely to happen - this is a good example of it. In the first place, Cloud is dying from Geostigma. Why would Aerith tell Cloud to move on when he's dying?

Their response is that Aerith healed Cloud when she touched his arm. When did a spirit's touch ever heal anyone in FFVII? How do we know that can even happen? If Aerith did heal Cloud, wouldn't he feel even MORE guilty that she gave him life when he wasn't able to save hers?

Say that Cloud does heal from Geostigma somehow - where has there ever been any indication that Cloud WANTS to move on? Even in AC, Tifa says this to Cloud in the Venice Film Festival premier: "You think you'll meet her again this way? You think you would reach her by doing so? The way you die could be a good way, is that what you think???" Doesn't that imply that even Tifa knows very well that Cloud is more interested in dying to be with Aerith than living a life with Tifa?

There's one line in FFVII that the Cloti's take to mean that Cloud is ready to move on, which is this line from the morning after the Night under the Highwind scene:

Cloud "We've got to let go of Aerith's memory."

Wilhelm has looked at the original Japanese script and has verified for us that Cloud is really speaking about freeing Aerith from Sephiroth's control, not letting go of Aerith's memory. Besides, it's quite obvious by now that Cloud has NOT forgotten Aerith. Even Square has said that Aerith still lives in Cloud's heart, so he has obviously not let go of her memory. There's been no indication whatsoever that Cloud is ready to move on. I think it's just more wishful thinking by the Cloti's.
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Andina
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In the first place, Cloud is dying from Geostigma. Why would Aerith tell Cloud to move on when he's dying?

Well in their defense I have to say that perhaps they believe that there is or will be a cure for it (like that Aerith curing him thing you just mentioned)? And then after he is cured Cloud could start a new life and leave everything that belongs to the past behind. That's not what I think, I'm just trying to see it from their point of view. :rolleyes:

Quote:
 
Say that Cloud does heal from Geostigma somehow - where has there ever been any indication that Cloud WANTS to move on? Even in AC, Tifa says this to Cloud in the Venice Film Festival premier: "You think you'll meet her again this way? You think you would reach her by doing so? The way you die could be a good way, is that what you think???" Doesn't that imply that even Tifa knows very well that Cloud is more interested in dying to be with Aerith than living a life with Tifa?

Mmm, if someone would say to me that "I think I wish to die rather than continue my life with you as there is a chance that in death I could reunite with my old girl/boyfriend." I think I would give up at that point. :lol:
But it does seem that Tifa understands Cloud more or less. She might not like the idea that Cloud could possibly kill himself in order to be with Aerith, but she does understand (more or less) how desperate Cloud is to reunite with the woman he so loves.
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Shiva
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Even in AC, Tifa says this to Cloud in the Venice Film Festival premier: "You think you'll meet her again this way? You think you would reach her by doing so? The way you die could be a good way, is that what you think???" Doesn't that imply that even Tifa knows very well that Cloud is more interested in dying to be with Aerith than living a life with Tifa?


I have never seen this line in any of the other trailers. The CloTis deny that this line is true evidence that Cloud wishes to die to be with Aerith because it was only shown in one translation. What do you guys think of this?
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
FF_Goddess
Dec 8 2004, 12:56 AM
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Even in AC, Tifa says this to Cloud in the Venice Film Festival premier: "You think you'll meet her again this way? You think you would reach her by doing so? The way you die could be a good way, is that what you think???" Doesn't that imply that even Tifa knows very well that Cloud is more interested in dying to be with Aerith than living a life with Tifa?

I have never seen this line in any of the other trailers. The CloTis deny that this line is true evidence that Cloud wishes to die to be with Aerith because it was only shown in one translation. What do you guys think of this?

Oh, yes it has been in other trailers... although not spoken exactly that way. The third sentence was in the Jump Festa trailer last year, but it was mistranslated. People originally thought that the line was Aerith asking, "Is the way I died a good way?". Later, the translation was corrected to say this:

Woman's voice: The way you die could be a good way, is that what you think?"

Coral also said this happened in the Paris Film Festival, too:

Later Tifa says: " You're resigned. You want to die?"
No answer from Cloud.
"I knew it." she says.


So no, it hasn't been said in exactly the same way... but it was said in the Venice Film Festival trailer. Why should one trailer be considered more official than another?
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Andina
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So no, it hasn't been said in exactly the same way... but it was said in the Venice Film Festival trailer. Why should one trailer be considered more official than another?

Well nothing would surprise me anymore. :lol:
But we all know that as long as it comes straight from Square then no matter what it is it's as official as it possibly could be.
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Sefie
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Eyes of dream-water
Their justification with it being in only one trailer was that maybe it was mistranslated, or a lie. However, the same thing being said in the most recent trailer just PROVES it.
But they'll find SOME way to wriggle out of it!
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Kaldea
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fantôme
I dunno why, but I feel so sorry for Cloud. Weird to feel sorry for some pixels. :lol: But Cloud is going through so much pain. After finding the woman he WANTS to die for only to be told to "move on" with another girl, I wouldn't blame him if he instantly threw that reasoning aside and told her how he really felt and how long and hard he has tried to look for her again. If it were me, I would almost consider that an insult.

"Go love Tifa, Cloud"
"Oh ok! I just spent the last two years mourning for you, living for your sake, being alone (and searching for you in multiple games). No big deal! I love Tifa now!"

That seems to be a huge cop out and Square isn't the type to do that when it comes to story, at least in FFVII's case.

Also, I doubt Tifa would just settle for runner up. Tifa would only want Cloud if Cloud was in love with only her. She would know that deep down, Cloud would be wishing that she was Aeris and I don't think any woman with morals would accept that type of relationship.

"Love" seems to have a different meaning to many people here. But when it comes to "True Love", there is no such thing as "moving on". You love that person and it stays that way forever. That is what soulmates are. True love that unites two people even beyond death. Because that is how strong that love is.

So yeah, I seriously doubt any "moving on" with Tifa will happen.
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Paksenarrion
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Gut genug.
Cloud's Girl
Dec 7 2004, 09:44 PM
I dunno why, but I feel so sorry for Cloud.  Weird to feel sorry for some pixels. :lol:  But Cloud is going through so much pain.  After finding the woman he WANTS to die for only to be told to "move on" with another girl, I wouldn't blame him if he instantly threw that reasoning aside and told her how he really felt and how long and hard he has tried to look for her again.  If it were me, I would almost consider that an insult.

"Go love Tifa, Cloud"
"Oh ok!  I just spent the last two years mourning for you, living for your sake, being alone (and searching for you in multiple games).  No big deal!  I love Tifa now!"

That seems to be a huge cop out and Square isn't the type to do that when it comes to story, at least in FFVII's case.

Also, I doubt Tifa would just settle for runner up.  Tifa would only want Cloud if Cloud was in love with only her.  She would know that deep down, Cloud would be wishing that she was Aeris and I don't think any woman with morals would accept that type of relationship.

"Love" seems to have a different meaning to many people here.  But when it comes to "True Love", there is no such thing as "moving on".  You love that person and it stays that way forever.  That is what soulmates are.  True love that unites two people even beyond death.  Because that is how strong that love is.

So yeah, I seriously doubt any "moving on" with Tifa will happen.

I couldn't have said that any better myself. :)

It's hard to imagine that at the end of the game, Cloud will change his mind and hold Tifa's hand, and walk into the sunset.

Cloud will never get over Aerith. I think Tifa is going to realize this, and set her sights on Vincent. Wait, he can't get over Lucrecia. How about Cid? No, Shera is still alive. Maybe Barrett. He does have a little baggage though, having a little daughter and all. Aww, poor Tifa, she can't find someone to replace Cloud. :(

Maybe Reno? there we go!
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Sefie
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Eyes of dream-water
Cloud's Girl
Dec 8 2004, 02:44 AM
I dunno why, but I feel so sorry for Cloud. Weird to feel sorry for some pixels. :lol: But Cloud is going through so much pain. After finding the woman he WANTS to die for only to be told to "move on" with another girl, I wouldn't blame him if he instantly threw that reasoning aside and told her how he really felt and how long and hard he has tried to look for her again. If it were me, I would almost consider that an insult.

"Go love Tifa, Cloud"
"Oh ok! I just spent the last two years mourning for you, living for your sake, being alone (and searching for you in multiple games). No big deal! I love Tifa now!"

That seems to be a huge cop out and Square isn't the type to do that when it comes to story, at least in FFVII's case.

Also, I doubt Tifa would just settle for runner up. Tifa would only want Cloud if Cloud was in love with only her. She would know that deep down, Cloud would be wishing that she was Aeris and I don't think any woman with morals would accept that type of relationship.

"Love" seems to have a different meaning to many people here. But when it comes to "True Love", there is no such thing as "moving on". You love that person and it stays that way forever. That is what soulmates are. True love that unites two people even beyond death. Because that is how strong that love is.

So yeah, I seriously doubt any "moving on" with Tifa will happen.

EXACTLY
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
The funny part of the Cloti reasoning is that they want Aerith to tell Cloud to move on when they ALSO claim that Cloud and Aerith were never in love in the first place. How can Cloud move on from something that never existed? If they want Aerith to tell Cloud to move on, then they are saying that Cloud and Aerith were in love. :lol:

And even if he did move on, that would make Tifa second best. I saw one Cloti with a sig showing Cloud facing Tifa while thinking, "I guess you'd make a pretty good substitute for Aerith". If you ask me, that's just agreeing with the Cleris people! :lol: If Tifa's nothing but a *substitute*, then Aerith is where Cloud's love truly is.

I agree with Cloud's Girl, though. I don't think that Square will "substitute" Aerith in Cloud's heart. True love can't be substituted, nor can it be replaced. A relationship with a "substitute" is nothing but cheap and meaningless. Why does Cloud want to die if he wants to be with Tifa? If Cloud was living a happy life with Tifa, wouldn't he be fighting to live rather than being resigned to die?
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Sefie
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Eyes of dream-water
Anastar
Dec 8 2004, 02:42 PM
The funny part of the Cloti reasoning is that they want Aerith to tell Cloud to move on when they ALSO claim that Cloud and Aerith were never in love in the first place. How can Cloud move on from something that never existed? If they want Aerith to tell Cloud to move on, then they are saying that Cloud and Aerith were in love. :lol:

And even if he did move on, that would make Tifa second best. I saw one Cloti with a sig showing Cloud facing Tifa while thinking, "I guess you'd make a pretty good substitute for Aerith". If you ask me, that's just agreeing with the Cleris people! :lol: If Tifa's nothing but a *substitute*, then Aerith is where Cloud's love truly is.

I agree with Cloud's Girl, though. I don't think that Square will "substitute" Aerith in Cloud's heart. True love can't be substituted, nor can it be replaced. A relationship with a "substitute" is nothing but cheap and meaningless. Why does Cloud want to die if he wants to be with Tifa? If Cloud was living a happy life with Tifa, wouldn't he be fighting to live rather than being resigned to die?

Yet another example of their double edged evidence :D
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
The other part of this is that IF Aerith were to heal Cloud, I think that Cloud would feel even more guilty that Aerith had given him life when he wasn't able to save hers. If he's feeling even MORE guilty, wouldn't that give him even LESS reason to move on?

EDIT:
Sefie
 
Their justification with it being in only one trailer was that maybe it was mistranslated, or a lie. However, the same thing being said in the most recent trailer just PROVES it. But they'll find SOME way to wriggle out of it!

It wasn't a mistranslation because someone who was at the Venice Film Festival and saw the official translation was the first to say that line was included in the Film Festival. I believe that line was also in the translated dialogue from the Venice Film Festival published on FF7Reunion so it wasn't a lie - check me on that, but I'm quite sure it was. There were three accounts of the Venice Film Festival published on different websites. Was that line in all three accounts of the Venice FF? If so, I doubt that all three accounts plus the translation of the dialogue from FFReunion could all be wrong.
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Sefie
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Oooohhh, I guess I'd missed it being in the second one. My bad!
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Amore
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Okay, Tifa never said anything about "you want to meet her" otherwise, we would have heard it in the audio of the screening that was released at AC.net.
But based on the actualy translation, you may infer that Tifa was thinking to herself that Cloud may have greeted death because of Aeris.
But that's fine.
I don't think Aeris will ever say "Go get with Tifa and have lots of kids, forget about me."
Cloud will never forget about Aeris and even Tifa wouldn't want him to just forget about Aeris.
In the end, it's up to Cloud who he ends up with. Neither Tifa nor Aeris can force him in either direction. Moving on to me doesn't mean he ends up with Tifa at all.
I think there will be some breakthrough as far as the disease is concerned. Otherwise, we would have a movie in which not only the hero, but a whole bunch of innocent children just end up passing away. That would suck in my opinion. I may be among the minority but I hope Cloud survives.
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
Amore
Dec 11 2004, 05:36 AM
Okay, Tifa never said anything about "you want to meet her" otherwise, we would have heard it in the audio of the screening that was released at AC.net.

Did it ever occur to you that different screenings may have been slightly different? Some dialogue has changed slightly in each presentation, and even some slight changes were made visually for each presentation. It seems to me that they showed different segments of different scenes. Also, the translation of the audio recording presented at AC.net was different from the dialogue shown in screenshots at Daeya.org - that's not because AC.net has bad translators, but because Japanese is very difficult to translate out of context. Don't be so sure that Tifa "never said" anything like that.

Amore
Dec 11 2004, 05:36 AM
In the end, it's up to Cloud who he ends up with. Neither Tifa nor Aeris can force him in either direction. Moving on to me doesn't mean he ends up with Tifa at all.

I agree with you on that - Cloud has to make up his own mind, and who says he has to end up with anyone at the end? I've always thought it much more likely that Square will leave it inconclusive, rather than pairing him up with anyone. Nomura has already said twice that he doesn't want to contradict the views of fans (once in reference to KH and once in reference to AC). I'd much rather it be resolved conclusively, but I doubt that it will be. No matter who they pair Cloud up with, millions of fans will be very angry and disappointed. Why would Square do that?
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