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Tokyo Zone Film Festival; Held in Paris, France
Topic Started: Dec 2 2004, 09:08 PM (1,432 Views)
Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
slowerthanaverage
Dec 5 2004, 04:32 AM
if the last character is Elmyra it'll be sooo sweet...but i have a feeling it will be cait sith/reeve...Erm, well, the orphans will love caith sith  heehee

That's possible, too. Perhaps this last character hasn't been revealed because that character operates the orphanage where Cloud works? Nothing has been explained about where this orphanage is, or where Cloud has been living with the orphans... so there must be something big about it that Square hasn't wanted to reveal yet. The last character may well be associated with the orphanage.

Onigiri
Dec 5 2004, 04:35 AM
When Cloud sees Aerith in the flowerfields and then he flashes back on his fenrir, is he reflecting the time he was 'there' or did he go there at that moment? If the latter, then I don't think its the first time, because...it seems a little too casual doesn't it? If it were the first time, maybe a 'special' moment of reflection or time alone...but if just while riding his fenrir, makes it seem like it happens often.

From what we can tell, he goes there at that moment. And yes, I agree that it seems too casual for it to be the first time he's seen her or talked to her in two years. But if he's seen her before this, then why is he still feeling guilty? Aerith would have addressed it immediately... she wouldn't wait for two years to bring it up.

The whole scene seems out of context to me. If this is the first time she's seen him in two years, why does she greet him with "Question: Why are you here?" That doesn't seem right. It also seems to end abruptly, without the matter being resolved between them. I think he will see her again during the movie.
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Shiva
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Dec 5 2004, 04:54 AM
From what we can tell, he goes there at that moment. And yes, I agree that it seems too casual for it to be the first time he's seen her or talked to her in two years. But if he's seen her before this, then why is he still feeling guilty? Aerith would have addressed it immediately... she wouldn't wait for two years to bring it up.

The whole scene seems out of context to me. If this is the first time she's seen him in two years, why does she greet him with "Question: Why are you here?" That doesn't seem right. It also seems to end abruptly, without the matter being resolved between them. I think he will see her again during the movie.

I agree. Why would Aerith be so casual to Cloud if they were seeing each other for the first time in two years? And, yet, why is the issue of Cloud's guilt just now being brought up? Also, from what Aerith says, it is causing Cloud great pain to be there with her. Why? Because of his guilt? Is it his guilt that has kept him from seeing her all these years? Does he feel unworthy of her forgiveness? Is he too shameful to be in her presence? And, yet there is the issue of Aerith's casual question, "Why are you here?" Does she mean "here" as in "here, with me"? Or does she mean "here in the Forgotten Capital, where I was murdered"? :blink: Is it the location that brings up Cloud's feelings of guilt? The trailers probably aren't showing us everything. Maybe Cloud is at the Forgotten Capital when he sees Aerith. :huh:

Also, does everyone remember the pic of Cloud, Vincent, and Marlene standing at the edge of the pool where Aerith was laid to rest? Why haven't we been shown that again? That pic has all but disappeared. Maybe they want to be secretive about that... :huh:

Also... speaking of Elmyra taking care of the orphans... What if she were taking care of them at her old house in Midgar, where Aerith grew up? I know Nomura said that Cloud is just returning to Midgar, but that would be VERY amusing to see him living in Aerith's old house with Aerith's adopted mother, rather than where the CloTis are hoping he is living. LOL! :lol:
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FF_Goddess
Dec 5 2004, 10:19 PM
I agree. Why would Aerith be so casual to Cloud if they were seeing each other for the first time in two years? And, yet, why is the issue of Cloud's guilt just now being brought up? Also, from what Aerith says, it is causing Cloud great pain to be there with her. Why? Because of his guilt? Is it his guilt that has kept him from seeing her all these years? Does he feel unworthy of her forgiveness? Is he too shameful to be in her presence?

I think he's definitely feeling shameful. Why else is his back to her, and his head is down? He's feeling unworthy of being with her. In that sense, he may have been his own worst enemy in trying to see her again. Yet, it has been said that it's his dream to meet her again and KH/FF Tactics depicted Cloud as trying to find her. So why all of a sudden do I get the feeling from the previews that he has not been trying to find her? (See this thread for more about this: Cloud's Communication with Aerith.)

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And, yet there is the issue of Aerith's casual question, "Why are you here?" Does she mean "here" as in "here, with me"? Or does she mean "here in the Forgotten Capital, where I was murdered"? :blink: Is it the location that brings up Cloud's feelings of guilt? The trailers probably aren't showing us everything. Maybe Cloud is at the Forgotten Capital when he sees Aerith. :huh:

I think she means "here" as in the Forgotten City. Actually, I think she means "What has brought you here?" because she senses the trouble with the SHM, and she's wondering what the problem is.

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Also, does everyone remember the pic of Cloud, Vincent, and Marlene standing at the edge of the pool where Aerith was laid to rest? Why haven't we been shown that again? That pic has all but disappeared. Maybe they want to be secretive about that... :huh:

That scene has been shown at all the film festivals. Cloud leaves at the end of it with Marlene, and they go back to Midgar.

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Also... speaking of Elmyra taking care of the orphans... What if she were taking care of them at her old house in Midgar, where Aerith grew up? I know Nomura said that Cloud is just returning to Midgar, but that would be VERY amusing to see him living in Aerith's old house with Aerith's adopted mother, rather than where the CloTis are hoping he is living. LOL! :lol:

But her house is in Midgar... so if Cloud has just returned to Midgar, then he wasn't staying at her house in Midgar. For that to happen, Elmyra's orphanage would have to be someplace like Kalm. I can see something like that happening easily, since there were so many children in the windows at Kalm near the end of FFVII.
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Andina
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I think he's definitely feeling shameful. Why else is his back to her, and his head is down? He's feeling unworthy of being with her. In that sense, he may have been his own worst enemy in trying to see her again.

That is pretty obvious, and I suppose it's one of the few things we can be certain of at this point. With everything else they go round and round just to confuse us poor fans. :rolleyes:

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So why all of a sudden do I get the feeling from the previews that he has not been trying to find her?

Well I haven't been to that thread yet, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. But it makes no sense if that would be the case, considering what Cloud was doing in those games you mentioned.
Perhaps I should go and see what you've been talking about before I say anything else, I've been talking lot of rubbish lately. :lol:

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Elmyra's orphanage would have to be someplace like Kalm. I can see something like that happening easily, since there were so many children in the windows at Kalm near the end of FFVII.

Well at the end of FFVII she was in Kalm with Marlene and everyone else that Reeve evacuated from Midgar, so it's no surprise if she decided to stay there and take care of all those children that lost their parents when Midgar was half destroyed my the meteor. She really has no real reason to go back to her old house, well apart from that beautiful garden that Aerith had there. ^_^
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Anastar
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Andina
Dec 5 2004, 11:44 PM
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So why all of a sudden do I get the feeling from the previews that he has not been trying to find her?

Well I haven't been to that thread yet, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. But it makes no sense if that would be the case, considering what Cloud was doing in those games you mentioned. Perhaps I should go and see what you've been talking about before I say anything else, I've been talking lot of rubbish lately. :lol:

I completely agree... it would make no sense that he hasn't tried to see her again. Yet, that's the feeling I get from reading about the previews. I get the sense that he hasn't been in communication with Aerith, and that he's been guilty over her death, that he feels useless, that he's ashamed because he was unable to protect her, that he's feeling "dishonored" (for lack of a better word), etc. We've learned that he was working with the orphans and working as a courier. We've learned a lot about what Cloud has been doing, but where has there been any indication that Cloud is trying to find her? Wouldn't that be a primary thing for Square to depict?

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Well at the end of FFVII she was in Kalm with Marlene and everyone else that Reeve evacuated from Midgar, so it's no surprise if she decided to stay there and take care of all those children that lost their parents when Midgar was half destroyed my the meteor. She really has no real reason to go back to her old house, well apart from that beautiful garden that Aerith had there. ^_^

The house and garden and waterfall were beautiful... it was her home, so there'd be a lot of reason to go back there. However, I think Elmyra would stay if she were needed to help with the children in Kalm. Who knows? We may be way off... but it makes a lot of sense. :rolleyes:
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Andina
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We've learned that he was working with the orphans and working as a courier. We've learned a lot about what Cloud has been doing, but where has there been any indication that Cloud is trying to find her? Wouldn't that be a primary thing for Square to depict?

Do you think that there is the possibility that Cloud simply gave up at some point? Perhaps that is why he is feeling so suicidal and depressed. He thought that he could never be with her again. That might also somewhat explain why he looks to be so ashamed in that dream (or whatever it is) where he is back to back with Aerith, he is ashamed to admit that he gave up.

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The house and garden and waterfall were beautiful... it was her home, so there'd be a lot of reason to go back there. However, I think Elmyra would stay if she were needed to help with the children in Kalm. Who knows? We may be way off... but it makes a lot of sense. 

Mmm, it was such a magical place. Such beauty in the midst of all that chaos. But we have no idea what shape her house might be now. They did say that most of the slums survived the meteor but it might still be very dangerous to be there. No matter how beautiful that house might be, half ruined Midgar is not a good, safe place for little children. Kalm on the other hand would be perfect.
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Anastar
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Andina
Dec 6 2004, 12:13 AM
Do you think that there is the possibility that Cloud simply gave up at some point? Perhaps that is why he is feeling so suicidal and depressed. He thought that he could never be with her again. That might also somewhat explain why he looks to be so ashamed in that dream (or whatever it is) where he is back to back with Aerith, he is ashamed to admit that he gave up.

Hmmm... possibly... but if that were so, why would Tifa say to him, "You think you'll meet her again this way? You think you would reach her by doing so? The way you die could be a good way, is that what you think???" Doesn't that imply that Cloud believes he will meet her when he dies? And he certainly doesn't seem surprised to see her back to back in the flower field. If he thought he couldn't meet her, wouldn't he be showing relief and happiness that he was finally with her rather than saying he wanted to be forgiven?

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Mmm, it was such a magical place. Such beauty in the midst of all that chaos. But we have no idea what shape her house might be now. They did say that most of the slums survived the meteor but it might still be very dangerous to be there. No matter how beautiful that house might be, half ruined Midgar is not a good, safe place for little children. Kalm on the other hand would be perfect.

Good point... Kalm would be a better place for the children than Midgar. Hmmm... even though we haven't seen anything to indicate this in the previews, it makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? Did he bring the children affected by Geostigma to Midgar because he thought they might receive better medical attention there? Remember that Zangan brought Tifa to Midgar for that reason...
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Andina
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And he certainly doesn't seem surprised to see her back to back in the flower field. If he thought he couldn't meet her, wouldn't he be showing relief and happiness that he was finally with her rather than saying he wanted to be forgiven?

I am going to be stubborn and still explain it all by saying that Cloud and Aerith are acting the way they are in that scene simply because it's a dream. You can't control yourself in a dream, you have no power what you do in your dreams. Just think what's it like when you're dreaming, things rarely go the way you would want them to, it is as if you're watching a movie that you're starring. ^_^
It is frustrating, you want to say and do so much more but you can not, and when things finally seem to get better you wake up. At least that's the way it is with me.

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Remember that Zangan brought Tifa to Midgar for that reason...

But that was when Midgar was stilll standing in it's full glory and Shinra was strong and wealthy. We might hate Shinra for all it did but we have to admit that they had lot of technology and knowledge, and now that they are gone and buried I doubt the hospitals and doctors in the ruined Midgar are any better then anywhere else. Times have changed, all that is left of Midgar are the slums and the few who still wish to live there.
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Anastar
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Andina
 
I am going to be stubborn and still explain it all by saying that Cloud and Aerith are acting the way they are in that scene simply because it's a dream. You can't control yourself in a dream, you have no power what you do in your dreams. Just think what's it like when you're dreaming, things rarely go the way you would want them top

Aha... okay, I didn't see it as a dream. I saw it as Cloud being in touch with Aerith's spirit. Perhaps being in the area of the Forgotten City heightened Cloud's feelings of guilt, since it's near where she died - so it forced him to confront his guilt.

I guess we have to look at these previews as Square trying to represent many elements of the story in a space of 25 minutes. They needed to introduce the basis of the story to the audience, give some sense of what the SHM are fighting for, represent the conflict with the SHM, show that Cloud is still struggling with issues involving those who were lost to him in FFVII while dealing with the effects of Geostigma and the SHM, show that he is somehow involved with the orphans, show the effects of Geostigma, involve the other FFVII characters in the preview, put in a good fight scene, and show Sephiroth... all in the space of 25 minutes. I guess they can't very well try to represent the story and preview all of those highlights at the same time. The issues involving Aerith are rather complex and dfficult to represent at the same time they're trying to deal with so much else, especially when they don't want to give too much away about what will happen.

Andina
 
But that was when Midgar was stilll standing in it's full glory and Shinra was strong and wealthy. We might hate Shinra for all it did but we have to admit that they had lot of technology and knowledge, and now that they are gone and buried I doubt the hospitals and doctors in the ruined Midgar are any better then anywhere else.

But remember that the Healing Lodge is near Midgar, which implies that doctors specializing in Geostigma and doing research into it are located nearby.
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Sefie
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Heh heh heh, I'm with FFG. I hope Cloud's living with Elmyra in Kalm, that'll bug the CloTi's.
But don't get me wrong! It really does make SENSE! Especially if Aly's correct about Cloud wanting to live his life the way Aeris would. Doing so along side her mother would work, don't you think?
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Andina
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But remember that the Healing Lodge is near Midgar, which implies that doctors specializing in Geostigma and doing research into it are located nearby.

It is? Where and when was that mentioned? Not that I doubt you (you're always right anyway :P), I just can't seem to recall where was something like that said.

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Heh heh heh, I'm with FFG. I hope Cloud's living with Elmyra in Kalm, that'll bug the CloTi's.
But don't get me wrong! It really does make SENSE! Especially if Aly's correct about Cloud wanting to live his life the way Aeris would. Doing so along side her mother would work, don't you think?

I don't think anything makes sense at this point. Whenever I think that I have finally figured something out they release a new screenshot or someone comes up with a good theory that is in conflict with what I believe. :rolleyes:
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Anastar
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Coral
Dec 4 2004, 02:07 PM
Also, to me Cloud truly speaks his mind to Aerith, not to Tifa.
Cause he says to Aerith in the flower field "I want to be forgiven. Yes, I want to be forgiven"

This sentence is what Cloud really feels. He never said this to Tifa. Tifa guessed he wanted to die, she guessed he wants to go to Aerith but he didn't told her.

Coral... You said that Tifa "guessed he wants to go to Aerith". Did you hear Tifa say something to Cloud about him wanting to go to Aerith at the Paris Film Festival? :unsure: If so, what did she say and when did she say it?

Don't you love how I come up with my questions a month and a half later? :lol: *blush*

Andina
Dec 6 2004, 06:01 PM
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But remember that the Healing Lodge is near Midgar, which implies that doctors specializing in Geostigma and doing research into it are located nearby.

It is? Where and when was that mentioned? Not that I doubt you (you're always right anyway :P), I just can't seem to recall where was something like that said.

Yes, it's near Midgar! There was a signpost seen outside the Healing Lodge in one photograph with "Midgar" on it. :P
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Coral
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lol and above all things, I don't remember the trailer as well :ph43r:

Well she does not say "You want to die! And see Aerith once again! You fool! Why don't you love me!!!?", but let's face the problem: why would Cloud like to die?

Tifa: You've got Geostigma, haven't you?

Cloud: ...there's no cure for it.

Tifa: 'It's fine if I'm gonna just die like this' , is that what you're
thinking? ...It is...isn't it? Denzel's fighting it, and everyone's here for
you, so why not you, too?

Cloud: I don't think I can save anybody...not family, not comrades, no one.

Tifa: Always the same words! Always, always, always!


It means (to me) that she knows Cloud feels guilty since quite a long time. Another quote:
Tifa: Are you running away again? Have you ever considered what kind of consequences your actions will bring?

Why does he feels guilty, why does he want to die? Because he thinks that people he loved died by his fault. We understand it with this sentence, "not family, not comrades, no one." And also with Aerith and the pink ribbon.
Cloud: "But...I just let her die..."


Tifa doesn't say it so, but implies it to me. It seems clear as water that Cloud feels guilty and depressed mostly because of Aerith's death. Tifa was here when it happened and as shocked as Cloud. She's not quiet and peaceful at all: "...were we overcome by our memories?" means to me "Can we live again in spite of the horrible things that lay in the past? Should we carry on our back this past forever?"




Don't you think so?
Do I make sense ^^"?
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Anastar
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Yes, it makes a lot of sense, Coral... thanks for the clarification. :rolleyes:

I was just curious whether Tifa actually said something about Cloud wanting to meet Aerith because the report of the Venice Film Festival claims that Tifa did something like that. I've spoken to the person who wrote the Venice Film Festival report (Daniele), too, and he says that he clearly remembers Tifa saying it. Daniele also says that his friend remembers Tifa saying it. So I was hoping that maybe something was said in the Paris Film Festival like that, too.

But what you say makes a lot of sense. Thank you! :D
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Velut Luna
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um...i just of something just now.
um....we all know that cloud feels guilty about aeris death and we also know that he wants to be forgiven by her but she isnt blaming him or anything right?
anyways tifa might think theres another way for cloud to see aeris instead of dieing
so maybe thats why aeris says ''why have you come come here''and so on...but maybe theres like something that we need to know that could help with everything of the hole aeris and cloud thing. ;)
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