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Where Is Cloud Living?; This is driving me crazy
Topic Started: Oct 26 2004, 01:45 AM (3,337 Views)
Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
Sefie
Dec 13 2004, 01:27 AM
Gaaaah, this is all so very confusing.
If Tifa takes care of sick orphans, then why ARE all those sick kids out in the alley? Wait...doesn't Denzel go outside at one point, when the moogle girl talks to him? Maybe the shot we saw of him in bed was just in the morning, or when he was having a bad spell. *shrug*

It's possible that he was just getting up in the morning, but some of the children on the street are so sick they're collapsing. They belong in bed. If Tifa's taking care of them, why are they on the street? Here's another one seen in the alley:

Posted Image

That's a very sick child who shouldn't be on the street. The other thing is that Marlene is shown praying over Denzel at the beginning. She's saying, "Please don't take him away from me." That must mean that Denzel is very sick - but so is the child in the picture.

There's obviously gaps in what we know. For one, Kitase or Nomura said that Tifa and Marlene had arranged to meet Cloud in the Church. We never saw that in the Film Festivals. For another thing, the Venice Film Festival report says that a boy comes to the door of the Church when Loz is about to take Marlene. For another thing, we don't see how Cloud gets Fenrir to the Sleeping Forest (it's across an ocean, so he didn't ride Fenrir there). For another thing, we saw Yuffie parachute into Midgar. That was never shown in the Film Festival, so we don't know what she was doing in a plane. We don't know where the orphanage is, either. We don't know how Geostigma started. Square has left all sorts of holes in the plot in the previews at the Film Festivals.
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slowerthanaverage
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*somewhat lost*
I had a sudden enlightenment when i watched the TGS trailer again...... lol ok, not an enlightenment but an idea.. See, when Marlene and Tifa entered the church, the girl asked Tifa "is this where Cloud is living?" Tifa said "I think so." Right?

Later on when Marlene discovered the bandage, she asked "Is this why he left?"

It could be meant that "Is this why Cloud left the church/midgar?"
Right right?
That would make everything nomura had said about cloud living alone valid. He could be living in the church, yet, running a service/ orphanage with TIfa. That would explain why Cloud and Tifa were in little communication too....

ok..I don't know if this idea has been mentioned already :P lol but tell me what you think ya? ^_^
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Shrouded
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Ah, okay... I was just bringing Shrouded up to date, since he's been MIA for a few months. BTW, Shroudster, you'll find more info on what the Film Festivals have been showing us on page one of this thread.


I'm reading everything right now. My head... it hurts. So many contradictions. >__<
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Amore
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um...
I don't know, that kind of doesn't make any sense. All of Cloud's stuff is in the church so clearly he hasn't left the church.... Right?
:blink:
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slowerthanaverage
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*somewhat lost*
Amore
Dec 13 2004, 01:59 PM
um...
I don't know, that kind of doesn't make any sense. All of Cloud's stuff is in the church so clearly he hasn't left the church.... Right?
:blink:

So basically my post is nonsense? :blink: *cries*

lol, seriously, I thought it could be a possible senario. Something obviously happened out of the blue. Cloud could have been living in the church, but working with Tifa. However, after an event, Cloud left the Church without a word. Thus, they went searching for Cloud...only to find the remaining of his belongings.. prolly he is prepared to battle to death or something (heck why would cloud bring a sleeping bag along on his fenrir that is like no.1 fashion disaster! lol)
This would prompt Tifa to say "I think he wants to fight alone... no he is not going to fight at all" Something along that line, can't really remember.. :)

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Shrouded
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I think I'm just going to say same things others have said. The timelines are all messed up. So we can't really find an accurate interpretation. Perhaps Willheim can shed some light?? But I'll try to put it all together to at least have some semblance of coherence.

It's possible that Cloud has been living alone for the past two years. However he did returned after that as stated last summer.

This is where the confusion comes in:(Note that I'm only reading the first pages where all the sources are found. So feel free to correct me)

WCM's Statement:

[WCM] "I heard you've been living with the orphans.
Wouldn't you like to put the smiles back onto their faces? Our ultimate
objective here is the restoration of the world, Cloud."


Now as I stated, the timelines are all messed up. He could be referring to the present and not the two years that he spent alone.

When he returned, he lived in the orphanage for awhile untill he finds out that he has geostigma and later left and lived in the church. After all Geostigma came out after two years has passed right??

Now I don't really know whether Cloud has been living with Tifa when he retruned . We have to know whether 7th heaven and the Orphanage are the same thing. They could be working together, but that doesn't mean he lives there.

The picture frame however, I don't know where it fits.

That's what I came up with. I apologize if this has been stated before though..
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Anastar
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To touch the light I see in your eyes...
You're exactly right... the time frame is messed up. We don't know what happened two years ago, nor do we know what has been happening for the last two years except in interviews.

The statements made in the Film Festival all contradict what was said in the interviews. The interviews all say that Cloud has been living alone. They was also said that he was working in an orphanage alone. They also said that he has been living a solitary life and rejecting the company of his former friends. They also said that Tifa supported Cloud from the shadows, but they haven't seen much of one another for the past two years. It was also said that he has been travelling from place to place on Fenrir, and that he has been working as a courier.

It was also said that Tifa has been caring for sick orphans and managing the Seventh Heaven alone.

Now here's what the Film Festivals have been telling us:

The phone rings.
[Tifa mutters to herself.] He's not here anymore.
[Denzel] Cloud? Where's Cloud?

[Tifa] This is Strife Delivery Service.

~ Tifa saying that he's not here anymore implies that Cloud was with them before.
Denzel asking where Cloud is implies the same thing.

[WCM] I heard you've been living with the orphans.
Wouldn't you like to put the smiles back onto their faces? Our ultimate
objective here is the restoration of the world, Cloud.

~ If the orphans are living with Tifa, then so is Cloud. Where are the orphans living?

In the Church:
[Marlene] Is Cloud living here?
[Tifa] Seems like it to me...
[Marlene] This is the same as Denzel's...! Is Cloud sick, too?!
[Tifa] (to herself) You could've told us...
[Marlene] Was it 'cos he's sick that he left
?

~ Tifa's statement implies that Cloud had opportunity to tell them.
Marlene asks if he left, implying Cloud was with them before.

In the Sleeping Forest:
[Cloud] Vincent, could you take Marlene back with you to the Seventh Heaven?
I have something to talk about with those ShinRa buggers....
[Vincent] I cannot agree with that.
....
[Cloud] C'mon, Marlene! Let's go home.

~ Marlene is living with Tifa, so "going home" implies that Cloud lives with Marlene and therefore, with Tifa.

~ There's also a picture of Denzel, Marlene, Cloud, and Tifa on Tifa's desk... Cloud is facing away, is apart from the others, and looks like he just ate lemons, but he's there. :lol:

Now, nowhere does it actually say when Cloud with them or how long he stayed with them. For all we know, Cloud may have visited Tifa, Marlene, and Denzel for the afternoon before he "left". The picture may have been taken when Cloud cam to visit once. He already had Geostigma when the picture was taken, since he is wearing the cape. When Cloud says, "Let's go home", he could mean "Let's go home to Midgar". We don't know that Tifa lives with any orphans other than Denzel, so the WCM's comment may be referring to the orphanage. So there's no definite proof that Cloud was living with Tifa.

We just need something definite, because the Cloti's want to assume that's what happened. According to them, what the movie shows is more important than what was said in the interviews.
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Shrouded
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We just need something definite, because the Cloti's want to assume that's what happened. According to them, what the movie shows is more important than what was said in the interviews.


I really don't think the Clotis should use it as evidence though. I mean there so many contradictions to it that it will just end up as a draw and considering that their on the defensive side of the debate. They technically loose, due to the fact that they failed to prove their point.... Unless they have something definite??

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Anastar
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Shrouded Light
Dec 14 2004, 02:35 AM
I really don't think the Clotis  should  use it as evidence though. I mean there so many contradictions to it that it will just end up as a draw and considering that their on the defensive side of the debate. They technically loose, due to the fact that they failed to prove their point.... Unless they have something definite??

They consider what they already have "definite" because - to them - there's only one way to interpret these statements. When we point out that it could mean that Cloud was there for the day, they excuse it as lame and say that it definitely means Cloud was living with Tifa and making babies with her. They say the photo on Tifa's desk looks like the picture of a happy family. You can see how happy Cloud looks in the photo here:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/ffpics/Picture.jpg

Looks like he just ate lemons to me. :lol: They say that when Cloud says, "Let's go home", there's only one possible meaning: That he wants to go home to the Seventh Heaven.

If Square doesn't somehow concretely show that Cloud has been living alone in the movie rather than just stating it in interviews, the Cloti's will be crowing it to high heaven for the next 15 years: Cloud was living with Tifa. At this point, we have nothing but the interviews to disprove it.
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Shrouded
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Quote:
 
They consider what they already have "definite" because - to them - there's only one way to interpret these statements. When we point out that it could mean that Cloud was there for the day, they excuse it as lame and say that it definitely means Cloud was living with Tifa and making babies with her. They say the photo on Tifa's desk looks like the picture of a happy family. You can see how happy Cloud looks in the photo here:


<_< Typical...

Quote:
 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/ffpics/Picture.jpg

Looks like he just ate lemons to me. 


<_< I can tell by the distance between Cloud and Tifa.(about a hundred mile distance) <_< What a happy couple...

Quote:
 
They say that when Cloud says, "Let's go home", there's only one possible meaning: That he wants to go home to the Seventh Heaven.


That quote?? Hmmm, like I said... it has something to do with the timeline of it all. Still doesn't address the possibility that he might have been living alone in the past two years. Isn't that the scene right after he dreamt of Aerith??

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Anastar
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Shrouded Light
Dec 14 2004, 03:18 AM
<_< I can tell by the distance between Cloud and Tifa.(about a hundred mile distance)  <_< What a happy couple...

I forget where a Cloti was quoted here about that picture. They had a copy where it was all dark, and they were saying that there was no way you could see how Cloud looked and that it was the picture of a happy family, yadda, yadda.

If anything, that picture says to me that they weren't living together. Cloud has the cape over his arm, which means he has Geostigma. The bandages in the Church show large spots which indicate that the wound is seeping blood or something. There is NO WAY that Cloud could have kept that secret from Tifa if he was sleeping with her except by wearing the cape over his arm to bed.

Quote:
 
That quote?? Hmmm, like I said... it has something to do with the timeline of it all. Still doesn't address the possibility that he might have been living alone in the past two years. Isn't that the scene right after he dreamt of Aerith??

No. He sees Aerith in the flower field, then gets shot at by the SHM, then falls off the bike, has a confrontation with Kadaj, gets rescued by Vincent, talks to Vincent about Geostigma, Marlene comes to talk to them, Marlene yells at Cloud, and then Cloud says, "Let's go home".
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Shrouded
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No. He sees Aerith in the flower field, then gets shot at by the SHM, then falls off the bike, has a confrontation with Kadaj, gets rescued by Vincent, talks to Vincent about Geostigma, Marlene comes to talk to them, Marlene yells at Cloud, and then Cloud says, "Let's go home".


I gotta read the script more. Anyways, you might want to check Marlene's statement when she says home. Maybe she's just trying to say that she wants Cloud to be with friends again?? Than again, you can take it literally...
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Anastar
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Shrouded Light
Dec 15 2004, 12:57 AM
I gotta read the script more. Anyways, you might want to check Marlene's statement when she says home. Maybe she's just trying to say that she wants Cloud to be with friends again?? Than again, you can take it literally...

Marlene doesn't say it... Cloud does. Here's the full dialogue. There have been several versions of this, but all versions are very similar:

----------------------
Marlene comes running up to Cloud and Vincent.
Cloud: Marlene!
Marlene: Cloud! Denzel's...Tifa's...!
Cloud: Vincent, take Marlene with you. I have something to talk about with those ShinRa buggers.
Vincent: I cannot agree with that.
Marlene: Cloud, that’s enough! Why don’t you ever ask about us?!
Marlene turns away and runs up to Vincent.
Hiding her face inside the folds of Vincent’s mantle, she refuses to look at Cloud.
Cloud: Marlene, a huge fight is about to start. You do know what that means right? It can’t be taken lightly…
Marlene sulkily retorts, “No, I don’t know what that means!!”
Cloud: …please, just give me a little more time…
(Cloud recalls a conversation that he’s had with Tifa earlier)
---Tifa: Are you running away again? Have you ever considered what kind of consequences your actions will bring?
---Tifa, fixing her eyes on Cloud, asks, “…were we overcome by our memories?”
(back to present)
Cloud: Vincent…do you think a person can be forgiven?
Vincent: I’ve never had the pleasure of that experience.
Cloud nodding, decides, “I think I want to try and see…whether or not I could be.
I’ll inform you of the results later. C’mon, Marlene. Let's go home.”
(From his expression, Cloud seems to have come upon some sort of revelation)
Marlene happily runs back to Cloud. Holding hands, the two leave the place.
Vincent looks on at the two departing figures.
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Onigiri
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Isn't in the new 4 min trailer, Tifa says in the beginning when the phone rings "He's not here anymore" ?
Doesn't that suggest that he used to live there but left? (Recently too...)
It COULD suggest that he used to live there alone, but when he left, Tifa came to take it over...but that is very unlikely. And the fact that Denzel ask 'where's Cloud' suggest even more that he recently left.
I don't like the idea of Cloud living with Tifa but it could be true from what was suggested... >_<
It seems so far that only two orphans lives with Tifa, and the others perhaps with Cloud. But if you think about it, he went to escape to the churche he met Aerith in before he 'died'. That has significance that he thought of her before death and that he wanted to be closer to her in that way...

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Anastar
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Onigiri
Dec 16 2004, 03:49 PM
Isn't in the new 4 min trailer, Tifa says in the beginning when the phone rings "He's not here anymore" ? Doesn't that suggest that he used to live there but left? (Recently too...)

Two trailers have offered the translation of Tifa saying, "He's not here anymore." Daeya.org, however - who has screencaps of the official translation used at the Film Festival - has Tifa saying, "He's not here". I can get you the link to that when I get home from work.

Onigiri
Dec 16 2004, 03:49 PM
It COULD suggest that he used to live there alone, but when he left, Tifa came to take it over...but that is very unlikely. And the fact that Denzel ask 'where's Cloud' suggest even more that he recently left.

Yes, it can be interpreted that Cloud has been living with Tifa from different lines in the film festival, but it can also be interpreted that he just came to visit them and left. That would seem to be a more likely interpretation, since Nomura said in one interview that Cloud had just returned to Midgar. Everything could be taken that Cloud came to visit and they expected him to stay... but he left. Since Cloud knows that he's going to die, it may be that he came by to see them one last time before he dies. It would be like Cloud to do that without telling them that he was sick.
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