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| Europe's Cartoons Vs Muslim's Cartoons; Norway apologizes for their free speech | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 3 2006, 06:58 AM (1,555 Views) | |
| Cornelius | Feb 4 2006, 05:29 PM Post #31 |
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Banan, the Danes are quit capable of solving their own disputes. This whole thing was not even in the European press until things became violent for the Danes. Immediately after that, the European press rallied behind Denmark. The only smell of fear is that of some spineless wimps, disguised as politicians that make excuses that are not theirs to make. What has to be feared is the position of Muslims in European society as an accumulation of events like the Madrid and London bombing, the Paris riots and now this, will set them even further outside western society. But then, isn’t that what their leaders want? The general feeling right now here is, better to have it blow up now than later. This was bound to happen sometimes anyway, as the Muslim clergy is always looking for an excuse to be “offended”. No good pussy-footing around them anymore. |
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| pentax | Feb 4 2006, 06:56 PM Post #32 |
Kamloops - BC Interior
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I noticed one member of a Canadian forum that I spend a bit of time in, has already come up with this for his new Avatar: That didn't take long, eh? |
 (thumbnail)  "Kirk to Enterprise - Very funny, Scotty.... now beam down my clothes!" | |
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| tomdrobin | Feb 4 2006, 10:48 PM Post #33 |
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While satire may some times be offensive and in poor taste, it should be allowed in a free country with freedom of the press. While I felt the idea that democracy would bring positive change to the middle east, I am beginning to wonder. Based on the recent Palestinian elections, it would appear that intolerance is acceptable as long as your in the majority. Maybe the real enemy is Islam in general with it's medievel (from our perspective) attititude about religion. I think the French and German papers took an important stand for freedom of the press and free speach. We should support their stand instead of sucking up to try and appease the intolerant societies we are trying to impress. |
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| passinthru | Feb 5 2006, 06:04 AM Post #34 |
John - Gainesville, FL
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cnn article - violence spreads
There's a lot of talk these days about "disrespecting" various groups or individuals some of whom believe they are then justified in retaliating with physical harm. Some or most of it is cultural, imo, and will only get worse. The "chips" on their sholders are precariously balanced, I think in the hope of being able to lash out. |
| Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money... | |
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| Stoney | Feb 5 2006, 06:13 AM Post #35 |
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Huntsville, AL
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This is much like the chicken and the egg. Without liberty they will not learn a different view. With liberty it may be a slow, difficult, process. Hopefully there are some who will find freedom more attractive than hate. |
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The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau | |
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| Stoney | Feb 5 2006, 06:24 AM Post #36 |
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Huntsville, AL
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They are so blinded by hate that they can't or won't see the double standard.
Can't draw any conclusions from that, but maybe only 300 shows some restraint. |
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The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau | |
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| bikemanb | Feb 5 2006, 09:10 AM Post #37 |
Liberal Conservative
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Remember Tom, it was once this way in our country and the "West" in general. Short of a Gandhi type leader arising and surviving (bad odds) and changing the face of what passes for Islam today, there most likely will be a World War between Islam and the rest of the world within the next ten years. It really won’t be a war of religions or cultures though it will appear as such, it will be the focusing outwards of the hate and discontent for their failure as nations and a culture by their corrupt leaders thus preserving their own power. One of the reasons Gulf War II was such a bad idea is that it is further radicalizing the Muslim population and moving the date forward. It is often been said that the Arab “Street” only respects strength but the level of brutality that we would have to exert to instill the necessary fear we as a nation have never had the stomach for. |
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Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise. Benjamin Franklin | |
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| cmoehle | Feb 5 2006, 09:26 AM Post #38 |
Chris - San Antonio TX
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Tom "Maybe the real enemy is Islam in general with it's medievel (from our perspective) attititude about religion." No, disagree with that. The real enemy is the few extreme fundamentalists, though the complacency of the moderate majority allows those few to be the only voices heard much of the time. That's the point I was trying to make with the analogy I drew with Christianity and the "Westboro Baptist Church, led by anti-gay extremist Fred Phelps". |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Colo_Crawdad | Feb 5 2006, 09:36 AM Post #39 |
Lowell
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Is there a valid analogy here concerning folks on another forum advocating prosecuting the New York Times for publishing the original article about a Presidential order to ignore the constitutional requirement of a warrant when invading an American's privacy? I think there is. |
| "WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US." --- Pogo | |
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| cmoehle | Feb 5 2006, 10:01 AM Post #40 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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The entire developing story: Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy. The cartoons if youvaven't seen them: Cartoons. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Banandangees | Feb 5 2006, 10:40 AM Post #41 |
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The calling for prosecution of the New York times, and the calling for the prosecution of the authors of the cartoons (and their countries) are analogous. It's the form in which the prosecution is carried out where I think the analogy breaks down. In our nation, Canada and Europe, the New York times will be prosecuted through the courts or through the media or through public opinion and if it's not "prosecuted" in accordance with the law of the land (as with the abortion clinc bomber), they will be caught, tried, judged and incarcerated). Much of the Islamic world (not just the radicals) is calling for death to the authors and are burning European embassies and taking hostages. What the world seems to have to contend with and one reason I started this thread, are the ways the different "insulted" react to the insult, not only in the land of the insulted where freedom of speech is not a gift, but also by the reactions/actions of the "insulted" in the land where freedom of speech is a treasured gift. In the land of the free, even though the majority may not like the taste of the "opinion" given, are they willing to give up, or set themselves up via the words of their apologists, even a small part of that freedom because of the "values" of others? And from that, we see newspapers (and now some politicians) showing support for Denmark and that freedom. And are we willing to tolerate the illegal (criminal) acts against that freedom just to appease the insulted? Maybe that is what needs to be done (other than common sense before hand). But that route just further opens the can of worms. |
| Banan | |
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| cascade | Feb 5 2006, 11:31 AM Post #42 |
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Lloyd...Michie,Tennesse
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Tom "Maybe the real enemy is Islam in general with it's medievel (from our perspective) attititude about religion." I tend to agree with Tom's analogy. Chris that complacent moderate majority enables the extremists, they are either in total fear, or silently backing the extremists through their belief, IMO. |
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"[Do not] suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty [to publish] by any pretenses of politeness, delicacy or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." --John Adams | |
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| BuddyIAm | Feb 5 2006, 11:47 AM Post #43 |
Member
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Cascade says: Tom "Maybe the real enemy is Islam in general with it's medievel (from our perspective) attititude about religion." Buddy says: It is not Islam that is the problem.. It is the relationship between the people of differant sect. That seems to be the problem… I believe that this turmoil with in the different sects. Provides the reasoning for fanatics to withdraw into their own world. And establish communities of disenchanted people. Once you group together many, oppressed or rejected people. People who can’t fit in in normal society as it exists around them.. You have a Army… |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| TexasShadow | Feb 5 2006, 12:20 PM Post #44 |
Jane
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seems to me that everyone is overlooking the fact that freedom of speech does not guarantee freedom from reprisal. sometimes, it's wise to keep your mouth shut and avoid getting punched in the nose. granted, punching someone in the nose because you take offensive to what he says is not the civilized thing to do...better to take him to court.... or refuse to buy his merchandise or use his services, or inundate him with written complaints...whatever... but "waving a red flag in front of a bull's face" is just that...a dare that CAN get you trampled. so what is the news media trying to do here? And who pays the price? |
 "A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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| Stoney | Feb 5 2006, 02:10 PM Post #45 |
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Huntsville, AL
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Jane, that's what I meant when I said "With freedom comes responsibility." When we have freedom we must be ready to accept the consequences of our actions. |
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The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau | |
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