| Welcome to Campfire Soapbox. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| Europe's Cartoons Vs Muslim's Cartoons; Norway apologizes for their free speech | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 3 2006, 06:58 AM (1,556 Views) | |
| BuddyIAm | Feb 4 2006, 11:34 AM Post #16 |
Member
|
Chris says: I'm not now sure I would advocate stopping someone from expressing hate, but I would advocate confronting it, standing up to it. Buddy says…. Racial intolerance and religious intolerance. Are not to be accepted… And considerably more indignation should be expressed than that shown in protest over a all male high school wrestling team… |
|
"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
 |
 
|
| cmoehle | Feb 4 2006, 11:43 AM Post #17 |
Chris - San Antonio TX
|
Why I say stand up to it. |
|
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
|
|
|
| BuddyIAm | Feb 4 2006, 11:54 AM Post #18 |
|
Member
|
Sorry, Forgot to say.. I agree with you Chris... Ouch, that hurt... 
|
|
"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
|
|
|
| cmoehle | Feb 4 2006, 12:09 PM Post #19 |
|
Chris - San Antonio TX
|
What were we talking about? |
|
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
|
|
|
| Cornelius | Feb 4 2006, 12:25 PM Post #20 |
|
Member
|
Chris, the other European newspapers only printed these cartoons because the Danish newspaper was under attack. It was a great show of solidarity between all these papers and their way of saying “stay off freedom of speech”. Freedom of speech goes hand in hand with freedom of what we want to hear/read. Most protesters have never even laid eyes on these cartoons, others have been shown different ones (in Gaza), and still it spread like a bushfire. Like I said …organised indignation to create even more hatred for Western society. Banan, van Gogh never learned that lesson, he stayed firm in his believe in freedom of speech no matter what the consequence. A famous quote at the National Dutch war cemetery A people that yields to tyrants, will loose more than soul and possessions, than the light will extinguish. from Henk van Randwijk, journalist and resistance fighter during WW2 |
|
|
|
| cmoehle | Feb 4 2006, 12:30 PM Post #21 |
|
Chris - San Antonio TX
|
Thanks for filling that in. We hear mixed things about it all. The carttons I saw were harmless. It should spur Muslims to irradicate the hate hijackign their religion. They seem slow as Christians--and I'm ducking, och, ow, hey! |
|
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
|
|
|
| BuddyIAm | Feb 4 2006, 01:03 PM Post #22 |
|
Member
|
Who’s got their finger in the dike, while this mess is carrying on… 
|
|
"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
|
|
|
| Stoney | Feb 4 2006, 01:31 PM Post #23 |
|
Huntsville, AL
|
“I'm not now sure I would advocate stopping someone from expressing hate, but I would advocate confronting it, standing up to it.” With freedom comes responsibility. If you believe that then maybe you believe that it is for reasonable people to define, as individuals. The discussion of ideas. Isn't that ultimately what this is? Maybe it's more useful when it is more than a stand, an attempt at understanding. |
|
The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau | |
|
|
|
| cmoehle | Feb 4 2006, 01:52 PM Post #24 |
|
Chris - San Antonio TX
|
Not sure I get...but this I believe as I believe in the economic free market, the free marketplace of ideas. I wouldn't have opened this forum without that faith. |
|
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
|
|
|
| Stoney | Feb 4 2006, 02:05 PM Post #25 |
|
Huntsville, AL
|
I'm saying I would agree by saying that it's our responsibility to confront ideas that we believe are destructive. |
|
The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau | |
|
|
|
| cmoehle | Feb 4 2006, 02:09 PM Post #26 |
|
Chris - San Antonio TX
|
Oh. OK. Now we're back to morals, social morals. How decide. The KKK and the WBC and Al Queda believe, strongly, they are morally right. |
|
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
|
|
|
| Banandangees | Feb 4 2006, 04:18 PM Post #27 |
|
Member
|
There is nothing wrong with peaceful protesting and nothing wrong with an apology when you feel you have done something wrong or in error. But what have the Islamic protests and death threats done to "free speech" in Europe and will threats such as those toward Europe eventually cause the same fear and same result to the North American news media? Just one man's opinion but this from an Op/Ed article in today's WSJ Europe's New Dissidents by Daniel Schwammenthal "......Reminiscent of Stalinist show trials, the paper (Denmarks Jyllands-Posten newspaper that originally posted the cartoons) was in the end forced to show public remorse. The cartoons "were not in variance with Danish law but have indisputably offended many Muslims for which we apologize," the paper said Monday. ...... But just like the original show trials, the "admission of guilt" won't cut the Danes much slack. Muslim organizations in Denmark rejected it as not "sincere" and the death treats, protests and boycotts continue." "The support shown in the past few days by newspapers around Europe reprinting the cartoons is very welcome. But the vast majority of Europe's media didn't join the battle. And so in the end, it was too little, too late, coming just after the Danes were forced to ‘confess.'" "‘Those who have won are dictatorships in the Middle East, in Saudi Arabia, where they cut criminals' hands and give women no rights' Jyllands-Posten's editor in chief, Carsten Juste, told the AP." "But what really sealed the Danes' fate - and possibly Europe's - was the lack of solidarity from other governments. The European Union likes to call ‘emergency meetings' for the most trivial topics, from farm subsidies to VAT rates. But when one of their smallest members came under attack for nothing else than being a European country, for defending the values and norms the EU is based on (one being freedom of the press/speech) there was nothing but silence from Europe's capitals. That silence has been heard and understood in the Muslim world.." It's called FEAR |
| Banan | |
|
|
|
| cascade | Feb 4 2006, 04:31 PM Post #28 |
|
Lloyd...Michie,Tennesse
|
"[Do not] suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty [to publish] by any pretenses of politeness, delicacy or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." --John Adams IMO, I see no differance in a tyrant threating your free speach and life or any group, religious or not. |
|
"[Do not] suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberty [to publish] by any pretenses of politeness, delicacy or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice." --John Adams | |
|
|
|
| Stoney | Feb 4 2006, 04:36 PM Post #29 |
|
Huntsville, AL
|
Freedom comes at a cost. Free speech is a pinnacle of liberty. |
|
The character inherent in the American people has done all that has been accomplished; and it would have done somewhat more, if the government had not sometimes got in its way. Henry David Thoreau | |
|
|
|
| cmoehle | Feb 4 2006, 04:49 PM Post #30 |
|
Chris - San Antonio TX
|
Banan " But what have the Islamic protests and death threats done to "free speech"" You beg the question. This is about us, not you, necesarily, ot me, necesarily, but us. Even if we're free to express our opinion, is it a matter of opinion? |
|
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
|
|
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Soapbox · Next Topic » |
10:48 AM Jul 13