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Rumors About Madonna; anybody?
Topic Started: Oct 18 2005, 11:32 AM (353 Views)
Jelly Bean
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Heard this morn that she is doing a documentary again, and somewhere in it she states she believes there are a big majority of Gay Catholic priests?

Reports also say that she references hell in some way....I think it airs on Friday, I am going to try and catch it.

Interesting coming from her...would love to hear her perspective...since we have gathered a lot of different perspectives here, on the same topics in soapbox.

Maybe she will join one of our polls!...lol
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
She's Jewish now isn't she.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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TexasShadow
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Jane
re madonna and jewish...mostly, she's an embarassment to jews and many are outraged by her kabbalah stuff. :)
Posted Image "A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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Jelly Bean
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cmoehle
Oct 18 2005, 11:41 AM
She's Jewish now isn't she.

not sure..I heard she studies kaballah...as I told you once before though...there are JEWISH CHRISTIANS.
Many, so maybe she is both?
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
An embarrassment to Christians as ell, no? She's an iconoclast. Not a bad way to make money.


Jewish Christian, right, but let's not mix ethnicity and religion. Religious Jews cannot be religious Christians, and vice versa. Ethnic Jews can be religious Christians, or Muslims or Buhddists or even atheists. Besides, what's the point, the whole Judeo-Christian nonsense was invented back in the 50s for political reasons. Muslim-Judeo-Christian is now more appropriate.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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roscoe
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Madonna speaks. The world listens with baited breath. Or was that bad breath.

As far as I'm concerned this Rummy was a never was now she is having religious documentaries. :floorrollin: :floorrollin: :floorrollin: :floorrollin: :floorrollin:
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Jelly Bean
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cmoehle
Oct 18 2005, 12:00 PM
Religious Jews cannot be religious Christians, and vice versa.

Who says you?

Judeo-Christian may have been "penned" in the year you mention (I don't know the date), but I know the concept is there in the BIBLE...so existed before a NAME was placed to it.

Same with homosexuality. One may think because older versions don't use the "word" homosexual, then it didn't exist, however the abominable behaviors described are "homosexual", so we know that they existed without the "term".
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Jelly Bean
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Jews for Jesus, statement of Faith

http://www.jewsforjesus.org/about/statementoffaith

Quote:
 
Statement of Faith
January 1, 2005

We believe that the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are divinely inspired, verbally and completely inerrant in the original writings and of supreme and final authority in all matters of faith and life.

We recognize the value of traditional Jewish literature, but only where it is supported by or conformable to the Word of God. We regard it as in no way binding upon life or faith.

We believe in one sovereign God, existing in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, perfect in holiness, infinite in wisdom, unbounded in power and measureless in love; that God is the source of all creation and that through the immediate exercise of His power all things came into being.

We believe that God the Father is the author of eternal salvation, having loved the world and given His Son for its redemption.

We believe that Jesus the Messiah was eternally pre-existent and is co-equal with God the Father; that He took on Himself the nature of man through the virgin birth so that He possesses both divine and human natures.

We believe in His sinless life and perfect obedience to the Law; in His atoning death, burial, bodily resurrection, ascension into heaven, high-priestly intercession and His personal return in power and glory.

We believe that the Holy Spirit is co-equal and co-eternal with the Father and the Son; that He was active in the creation of all things and continues to be so in providence; that He convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgment, and that He regenerates, sanctifies, baptizes, indwells, seals, illumines, guides and bestows His gifts upon all believers.

We believe that God created man in His image; that because of the disobedience of our first parents at the Garden of Eden they lost their innocence and both they and their descendants, separated from God, suffer physical and spiritual death and that all human beings, with the exception of Jesus the Messiah, are sinners by nature and practice.

We believe that Jesus the Messiah died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, as a representative and substitutionary sacrifice; that all who believe in Him are justified, not by any works of righteousness they have done, but by His perfect righteousness and atoning blood and that there is no other name under heaven by which we must be saved.

We believe that Israel exists as a covenant people through whom God continues to accomplish His purposes and that the Church is an elect people in accordance with the New Covenant, comprising both Jews and Gentiles who acknowledge Jesus as Messiah and Redeemer.

We believe that Jesus the Messiah will return personally in order to consummate the prophesied purposes concerning His kingdom.

We believe in the bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, the everlasting blessedness of the saved and the everlasting conscious punishment of the lost.

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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Still confusing Jews as a people with Judaism their major religion?

Jews for Jesus
Quote:
 
Jews for Jesus is a controversial Evangelical Protestant organization founded in 1973 by Martin Rosen, also known as Moishe Rosen, an ordained Baptist minister, with a goal of converting Jews to Christianity.

Their official mission statement is "to make the messiahship of Jesus an unavoidable issue to our Jewish people worldwide", and the organization claims to be "one of the most extensive evangelistic outreaches to Jewish people in the world today"....

According to its Executive Director, Jews for Jesus has many non-Jews in administrative and staff positions but deploys "only front-line missionaries who are Jewish or married to Jews".  However, some of the missionaries identify themselves as Jewish when in fact only their spouse, father, or grandfather is Jewish, and these missionaries would not be considered Jews in most of the communities they evangelize....

Jews for Jesus is rejected as "un-Jewish" by Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist Judaism and by other messianic Jewish groups and by many Christians. Its critics charge that Jews for Jesus is Jewish in name only, due to the organization's lack of Torah observance and a statement of faith indistinguishable from those of other Evangelical para-church groups.

The Interfaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington, an umbrella organization that includes Roman Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran and Presbyterian church groups, has condemned Jews for Jesus as promoting activities "harmful to the spirit of interreligious respect and tolerance". The conference also denounces the group's "deceptive proselytizing efforts", stating that when practiced on "vulnerable populations" such as the young or the elderly, these efforts are "tantamount to coerced conversions". The Rev. Clark Lobenstine, a Presbyterian (PCUSA) minister and executive director of the Conference, has stated that his group condemns Jews for Jesus and other messianic Jewish groups by name because they "go beyond the bounds of appropriate and ethically based religious outreach".

The Board of Governors of The Long Island Council of Churches voiced similar sentiments in a statement that "noted with alarm" the "subterfuge and dishonesty" inherent in the "mixing [of] religious symbols in ways which distort their essential meaning", and named Jews for Jesus as one of the three groups about whom such behavior was alleged.

Christian Scholars Group on Christian-Jewish Relations, consisting of 22 Christian scholars, theologians, historians and clergy from six Christian Protestant denominations and the Roman Catholic Church, issued a statement in September 2002, "A Sacred Obligation: Rethinking Christian Faith in Relation to Judaism and the Jewish People", offering ten positions "for the consideration of our fellow Christians". Among them the following are listed: "Christians should not target Jews for conversion. Christian worship that teaches contempt for Judaism dishonors God."

The Boca Raton News newspaper wrote in November 2003 article County Jewish organizations protest evangelical attempt:

    "The JCRC (Jewish Community Relations Council) is deeply disturbed and distressed, however, with the practices of these so-called ‘Hebrew Christians’ that demean Judaism by suggesting it is not as valid a faith as that of the proselytizer. These groups have undertaken an aggressive and deceptive campaign of proselytizing to the Jewish community, targeting our most vulnerable members, including the frail elderly and college students, with the intent to convert them to Christianity."


JINOs :floorrollin: RINOs, get it. :floorrollin:

Except it ain't funny. :(
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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Jelly Bean
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I'm not surprised they are controversial, Christ and Christianity were controversial to the point that they killed him!
RINO?

I suppose we can "say" that Jews are this, and place them in a box like we do the repubs and dems, with the middle man squeezed in like the "mod", but then there are those who say there are no real moderates, and that there can be no middle.
We don't necessarily "fit" into the boxes that others put us in, now do we?

You have your opinion of what is the Jewish "religion", and that there is no way a Jew can be a Christian, unless it is by ethnicity. I find you in correct. The old and new testament are designed to work together. Christ came for the Jew and then the gentile to incorporate them "BOTH" in the fold. The old and the new testament is designed to work as one, with Christ not destroying the old testament of the Jewish faith, but FULFILLING it.

So can Madonna have faith in being a Jew and a Christian? Sure why not!
We KNOW she doesn't care what people think, and we KNOW she doesn't fit into a box... lol.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Why are JfJ so deceptive? I mean, they are Christians, aren't they?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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Jelly Bean
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Deceptive? Oh my! That is what their critics would say...they say openly that they are christians...you may find it deceptive, because they dare say that they are "Jewish" & "Christian", I don't...I understand them fully!

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Jelly Bean
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His testimony was that he was raised in the Jewish faith...so at this point I would say that he probably was both.....and helped him to understand both!
http://www.rickross.com/reference/jews_for...or_jesus25.html

Quote:
 
Jews for Jesus founder speaks at area church
Moishe Rosen preaches the gospel of the messiah

The Salinas Californian/March 8, 2004
By George B. Sanchez
In a presentation that blurred the lines between Judaism and Christianity, the founder of Jews for Jesus spoke to the First Baptist Church of Prunedale on Sunday.

Jews for Jesus was founded in early 1970s by Moishe Rosen while he worked for the American Board of Missions to the Jews, a missionary group which converted Jews to Christianity.

"We serve the Jewish community that believes in Jesus," Rosen said. The Jews for Jesus Web site stresses that "being Jewish and believing in Jesus are not mutually exclusive."

Rosen himself was born and raised within the Jewish faith, he told the 46 congregants, though he later referred to himself as a Christian.

Rosen described Jews for Jesus as a missionary agency connected with evangelical churches. The organization encourages Jews to accept Jesus as the Messiah.

"Christians were and are Jews and Gentiles who, of their own free will, chose to trust in Jesus, the Jewish Messiah, as the one who offered himself as a sacrifice for the sins of the world," the Jews for Jesus Web site says.

"We support Jews who believe in Jesus and reach out to Jews who don't believe in Jesus," Rosen said Sunday.

Rosen told the church that Jews who recognize Jesus as a messiah often are ostracized by other Jews.

Rabbi Bruce Kadden of Temple Beth El in Salinas, interviewed later and separately, said he didn't understand what Rosen meant.

"Jews that consider Jesus the messiah are Christians," Kadden said after explaining that Jesus does not factor into the Jewish faith as a messianic figure or scholar. "We don't really ostracize anyone for that."

Touching on a popular debate, Rosen said he didn't think Mel Gibson's film "The Passion of the Christ" would ignite anti-Semitism.

"There is nothing as natural or normal for people as hatred, preconception, and prejudice," Rosen said.

He said Jews have been targets of discrimination and hate crimes since before the time of Jesus. He cited as an example the feast of Purim, a Jewish festival that celebrates the heroine Esther who saved Jews from persecution under the king of Persia. Purim was celebrated Friday.



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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Critics?

"The Interfaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington, an umbrella organization that includes Roman Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran and Presbyterian church groups"?

"Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist Judaism and by other messianic Jewish groups and by many Christians"?


"they say openly that they are christians"

Right, religious Christians. Not religious Jews. In fact "un-Jewish".


Have to admit even JfJ know the difference between Jewish people and Jewish religion: "Their official mission statement is 'to make the messiahship of Jesus an unavoidable issue to our Jewish people worldwide', and the organization claims to be 'one of the most extensive evangelistic outreaches to Jewish people in the world today'...."
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
This humorous piece might provide some perspective.

A Jewish Atheist? OY! A Jewish Atheist!
Quote:
 
I know a lot of Atheists, many of whom hate the reaction they get when they tell people what they think. We've all seen it, the rolling eyes, the open mouth, and the obvious questions.

But there's one thing that you can tell people and get an even stronger reaction, one so strong that even I am hesitant to tell someone unless I know I'll have the time to explain. You see, I'm a Jewish atheist. Telling people this has almost always followed with a long drawn-out explanation of how the two ideas are not mutually exclusive and how I'm "really an Atheist" even though I also call myself a Jew as well. Many other Jewish Atheists have written me on this subject as well, so I'm going to use this month's column to straighten out this small misunderstanding of how Atheism and Judaism can logically coexist in the same mind.

The central idea here, which is not often understood by non-Jews, is that there is more to Judaism than just religion. Yes, Judaism is a religion by definition, but since the Jews have been together as a people for so long there has grown a culture around that religion, which does not necessarily need the religion to survive. For instance, if I was to talk about knadlach and kreplach, most of you would think I was having some sort of seizure. Jews, however, would know that the topic was food - really good food - right away, without the idea of God ever entering the conversation.

And Jews love to eat! Heck, we use chicken fat as a spice! We talk with our hands, use guilt like it's going out of style, and utilize a host of Jewish-only mannerisms and traditions that have nothing to do with a deity (at least not directly). Some of us speak a little Yiddish, we all know at least half the score of "Fiddler on the Roof," and knowledge of how to dance the Hora is instinctive.

The extent to which a Jewish Atheist celebrates Jewish Holidays is an individual judgement call. After all, all Jewish holidays are at least somewhat religious, so I judge them on my own "secular" scale. Yom Kippur, for instance, is the Jew's holiest day, on which one spends all day in a synagogue, fasts, and is forgiven for sins. To me, there is very little culture and a whole lot of religion here, so I don't celebrate this holiday. Conversely, Passover in my family is celebrated by a big meal and a family get-together, with a little religion tossed in. For me, the cultural part of this day outweighs the religion, and so this holiday is one I celebrate (although I don't pray).

Granted, there is a gray area here. These same holidays may be celebrated in different ways in different families, so the scale may tip in opposite directions for some people. For instance, some families celebrate Passover with hours of prayer and religious discussion.. I certainly can see why some other Atheists might not want to involve themselves with that - I certainly wouldn't. Likewise, many Jews would say that the fasting and socialization makes Yom Kippur a cultural holiday as well, but my scale tips to far toward religion on this one.

Am I saying Jews are the only religious group with their own culture? No. I would not presume to say that no aspects of other traditions identify a culture without identifying a god.

However, I do know that Jewish people have similarities in attitudes and background that go beyond a belief in God. It is these cultural aspects which makes the term "Jewish Atheist" just as logical as "Black Atheist" or "New York Atheist."

So next time someone tells you they're a Jewish Atheist, bear in mine that this is not indecision or hypocrisy, rather it is the logical combination of culture and lack of religious belief.

Can I finish your Varnishkes and Kasha?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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