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Gay Priest Speaks Out; an interview
Topic Started: Oct 11 2005, 04:51 PM (1,275 Views)
cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
OK, so the Bible is not exacltly the word of God? Or people's understanding of it has evolved?

Why evolve half a scriptural passage but not the other? Why dismiss all the other commands about food, but not another?

What does Jesus say, given he is the heart of Christianity?

John says Jesus says nothing. I say that nothing speaks volumes:

Romans 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


Echoing Levitcus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am the LORD.

Why disobey His command?


Perhaps what you suspect are your own feelings.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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PRT
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I cannot remember where I heard or saw this - it was a day of recollection, mini retreat or something akin, but it says it for me.

God is love, and he who abides in love, abides in God, and God in him.

Can't we all just love one another?

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TexasShadow
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Jane
Quote:
 
OK, so the Bible is not exacltly the word of God? Or people's understanding of it has evolved?


I would say people's understanding of it has and continues to evolve.

As to it not being EXACTLY the word of God...
No, I don't think it is.
I think we're dealing with moments/flashes of inspiration followed by human attempts to express their understanding of those moments.
The Bible is like an onion. You have to peel off a lot of layers to get to the core.
Posted Image "A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking."
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Fr. Mike
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I will get to that tommorow chris. I'm worn out tonight and just doing some reading before hitting the light switch.

CalRed,

My prayers go out to you and your family over the loss.
A humble servant of the Lord Jesus Christ

Don't forget to say your prayers!
The unborn have rights too.
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Jelly Bean
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cmoehle
Oct 14 2005, 04:00 PM
CalRed
Oct 14 2005, 04:04 PM
Chris

You should have given your source.  It is from "THE BIBLE THROUGH GAY EYES."

I notice you quoted a lot from there but probably forgot to mention where it came from...

I have given explicit links to all I quote, Cal.

Ad hominem is a phoney argument masking lack of good argument.

In cals defense...I think he is just bringing up your source...sorta like you commenting on my source that time...I gave a link too.
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Jelly Bean
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cmoehle
Oct 14 2005, 11:50 AM

Answer one simple question, if you can.

"If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. "

If you consider that plainly, and find it a command against homosexuality, then just as it plainly it commands you to put them to death.

My question, when does your killing begin?

Leviticus 26:14-16 that "If you do not obey me and do not carry out all of these commandments, if instead, you reject my statutes, and if your soul abhors my ordinances so as not to carry out all my commandments ...I, in turn, will do this to you: I will appoint over you a sudden terror, consumption and fever that shall waste away the eyes and cause the soul to pine away; also, you shall sow your seed uselessly, for your enemies shall eat it up."



Jelly, you haven't answered that one yet either.


sorry, chris...didn't catch you asking me this earlier...so what is the question...when should we start killing homosexuals?
Is that really a QUESTION that you have NO ANSWER to?

God commanded man to stone (kill) all kinds of sinners, not just homosexuals. Adulterers were stoned as well!
That is the old testament.
We are in Grace times now.
The old and the new fit together, with the old being our schoolmaster. It was not "WRONG" for God to call man to stone sinners back in the day. Today God withholds punishment till later, and is allowing the wheat and tares to grow together. When He saved the adulterer who was about to be stoned in the New Testament, He made three points: she could be saved by Him, nobody accusing her was without sin, and He told her to GO AND SIN NO MORE! God is giving mankind every single chance He can think of, before he puts an end to it all. God's judgment will be carried out later...when he places us nonrepentive sinners in hell. We will cease to exist, if we are not abiding in the Word of God, His son Jesus Christ.
The world has been judged already Chris, so no need for man to kill, we are already condemned...and God is now looking for people to hear His voice so they can be salvaged.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED, just because we live in Grace times and cannot visibly see ourselves being punished for our sins, does NOT mean that it is now ok with God to sin.
...and that INCLUDES homosexuality. The Gospel of Christ is salvation from the condemnation.
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Jelly Bean
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This IS the Gospel Message:


John 3:16-21
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
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Jelly Bean
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cmoehle
Oct 14 2005, 06:34 PM

Echoing Levitcus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am the LORD.

Why disobey His command?



We are to LOVE in Spirit and in Truth.
Love your neighbor as you would yourself.
If my neighbor "KNEW" I was going to hell for my sinful behaviors, and didn't bother sharing with me the Gospel of Christ, and that there was a Way for me to be saved from my sins...then that is not loving!
To withhold the Gospel of Christ from your neighbor is very UNLOVING!
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Jelly Bean
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CalRed
Oct 14 2005, 10:05 AM

I am home in an emergency because of a death in the family.

Cal, I am so sorry to hear about your loss...hope this finds you, and you and yours are coping ok.
Prayers for you and loved ones.
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Jelly Bean
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cmoehle
Oct 14 2005, 02:59 AM






I notice no one touched this Bible says then in the second passage that homosexuals should be put to death.

Why is that? When are you going to start the killing?

We do not have to kill anyone or even ourselves...because we are ALREADY CONDEMNED.

Just think sinners sitting on death row, k?
Why are we just abiding time?
Because God has a SALVATION program in store...., and we with repentance now, we can be saved from the punishment. We are to preach the Gospel to the whole world...what is the Gospel? = Christ came to save a condemned world
READ BIBLE FOR DETAILS

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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Jelly Bean
Oct 15 2005, 03:30 AM
cmoehle
Oct 14 2005, 04:00 PM
CalRed
Oct 14 2005, 04:04 PM
Chris

You should have given your source.  It is from "THE BIBLE THROUGH GAY EYES."

I notice you quoted a lot from there but probably forgot to mention where it came from...

I have given explicit links to all I quote, Cal.

Ad hominem is a phoney argument masking lack of good argument.

In cals defense...I think he is just bringing up your source...sorta like you commenting on my source that time...I gave a link too.

BS. I provided a link as I always do.

What the heck does nitpicking like that even have to do with the topic?

I sense some people not only do not like discussing religion but would like to distract and interefere with others doing so.

Is it a threat?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Jelly Bean
Oct 15 2005, 03:51 AM
cmoehle
Oct 14 2005, 11:50 AM

Answer one simple question, if you can.

"If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. "

If you consider that plainly, and find it a command against homosexuality, then just as it plainly it commands you to put them to death.

My question, when does your killing begin?

Leviticus 26:14-16 that "If you do not obey me and do not carry out all of these commandments, if instead, you reject my statutes, and if your soul abhors my ordinances so as not to carry out all my commandments ...I, in turn, will do this to you: I will appoint over you a sudden terror, consumption and fever that shall waste away the eyes and cause the soul to pine away; also, you shall sow your seed uselessly, for your enemies shall eat it up."



Jelly, you haven't answered that one yet either.


sorry, chris...didn't catch you asking me this earlier...so what is the question...when should we start killing homosexuals?
Is that really a QUESTION that you have NO ANSWER to?

God commanded man to stone (kill) all kinds of sinners, not just homosexuals. Adulterers were stoned as well!
That is the old testament.
We are in Grace times now.
The old and the new fit together, with the old being our schoolmaster. It was not "WRONG" for God to call man to stone sinners back in the day. Today God withholds punishment till later, and is allowing the wheat and tares to grow together. When He saved the adulterer who was about to be stoned in the New Testament, He made three points: she could be saved by Him, nobody accusing her was without sin, and He told her to GO AND SIN NO MORE! God is giving mankind every single chance He can think of, before he puts an end to it all. God's judgment will be carried out later...when he places us nonrepentive sinners in hell. We will cease to exist, if we are not abiding in the Word of God, His son Jesus Christ.
The world has been judged already Chris, so no need for man to kill, we are already condemned...and God is now looking for people to hear His voice so they can be salvaged.

DO NOT BE DECEIVED, just because we live in Grace times and cannot visibly see ourselves being punished for our sins, does NOT mean that it is now ok with God to sin.
...and that INCLUDES homosexuality. The Gospel of Christ is salvation from the condemnation.

Sorry, you beg the question too.

Here, look again: ""If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."

I thought earlier you agreed it's plain language. The question is how can you parse the sentence such that you accept half the sentence but not the other half?

I've been criticized for bringing historical context into play. Now your bring anachronistic NT stuff into intepreting that passage.

What about "rabbits, pigs, and shellfish, such as oysters, shrimp, lobsters, crabs, clams, and others"? Are you saying you avoid as sin those abominations? Are you thus condemned as well?

Parse that if you please.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Jelly, so now you're saying homosexuals who believe are not condemned?

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. "
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Jelly Bean
Oct 15 2005, 04:31 AM
cmoehle
Oct 14 2005, 02:59 AM






I notice no one touched this Bible says then in the second passage that homosexuals should be put to death.

Why is that? When are you going to start the killing?

We do not have to kill anyone or even ourselves...because we are ALREADY CONDEMNED.

Just think sinners sitting on death row, k?
Why are we just abiding time?
Because God has a SALVATION program in store...., and we with repentance now, we can be saved from the punishment. We are to preach the Gospel to the whole world...what is the Gospel? = Christ came to save a condemned world
READ BIBLE FOR DETAILS

Mr Hyde: So we're all going to hell now?

Dr Jeckyl: So we're all saved now?

Will you make up your mind?


"READ BIBLE FOR DETAILS"

I have. I find the same confusion you find. We're condemned, we're saved, we're condemned, we're save--what will we be when the last petal of the flower is plucked?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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passinthru
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John - Gainesville, FL
Quote:
 
John 3:16-21
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


This is probably the most directional verse in the Bible. "...whosoever believeth in Him...," not in the meriad laws that existed in the church at the time, but in Him.
I have asked many times what people mean by "believeth" or "believe" as it is the key to all else. Most answer that they believe that He died for their sins and therefore they are saved. I think it does much deeper than that. Jesus spent time learning the laws of the church from the leaders of the church and realized that they were of bring the message of God to the people, but had become bogged down in the law of the church and had chosen to enrich themselves at the expense of both God and man in the name of God. He began preaching the true message of God, of love and compassion for our fellow man, for understanding and self-searching, of standing up for what is right no matter the cost to one's self. He simplified the law to love your neighbor as yourself. I weigh everything, everything else in the Bible against this, for this is what I believe "believe" means. Whether is comes before or after the words of Jesus, I weigh it all against the words of my Savior.
Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money...
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