| Welcome to Campfire Soapbox. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Exploring Columbus | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 10 2005, 03:51 PM (264 Views) | |
| DanHouck | Oct 17 2005, 05:35 AM Post #16 |
|
Land of Enchantment NM
|
Evaluating people from hundreds of years ago by the standards of today is one of the more ridiculous and historically ignorant activities of the PC crowd. Columbus's behavior was very consistent with the mores of his time. He was neither a particularly good or evil man. |
![]() |
|
| cmoehle | Oct 17 2005, 10:42 AM Post #17 |
|
Chris - San Antonio TX
|
Right, he was just a man with a vision. To say he was all bad or all good is equally PC and results in caricature. |
|
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
![]() |
|
| 5thwheeler | Oct 17 2005, 11:24 AM Post #18 |
|
Get the message?
|
"See there's always a problem with a liberal. They want their cake and they want to eat it too." Da... what good is a cake if you can't eat it. Leave it for the ants? I know... feed it to the masses.
|
|
History 101: When a popular myth is believed to be factual, teach the myth. Its not possible to underestimate the intelligence of the voting populous. Hummm, after seeing the results of the 06 election, I may have to modify my perception of the voting populous and refer to them as "Late Bloomers".
| |
![]() |
|
| MDPD6320 | Oct 17 2005, 11:53 AM Post #19 |
![]()
Frank - Gainesville, Florida
|
Chris, A few words regarding labels. In order to define terms sometimes labels are necessary. When applied they are best applied as most people understand them. I think your terms while they may be accurate, are obtuse, and not recognized by most as contempory designations. Therefore I use liberal as the "left wing of the Democrat Party, and Conserative for the right wing of the Republican Party. Easy to understand and while not perfect certainly fairly accurate by todays definition of liberal and conservative. Glass half empty or half full. I don't use the term in regard to generalities, but politically speaking optimist and pessimest just don't fit. When I regard liberals as "seeing the glass half full I refer to their choice to denigrate everything they see as a positive image for the capitalistic society we (once were ?) are. Once again speaking politically they are generally pessimists, with no vision, no hope, and no faith in the common man. Specifically they have not advanced a new idea in 40 years, they constantly wring their hands in dispair over the environment, over hurricanes, over the war after agreeing to it, over SUV's, over the un-PC, over windfall profits, and on and on and on. They turn their backs on the exploration of space, the exporation of oil, the use of the earths bounty, and preach only conservation. They fail to undestand the basic desires of men, and take the arrogant, elitist attitude that they are inherently smarter, and better able to spend our money for us, and provide better health care for us, and better tell us how to lead our lives than we. Now if the shoe fits, regardless of which side of the isle the elected official (he or she lest we offend) sits, label them. Use yours or mine I don't care. Something just came to mind, I recently heard a commercial on the radio, exhorting the people in Tallahassee (I think) to vote agains a coal burning power plant that is on a referandum. The opposing group doesn't want coal or nuke it wants oil. In case you forgot, it is Theresa Hines Kerry's outfit that fights the against the use of coal even though it is very efficiently utilized with todays technology. See they never give up, even in the face of crisis they continue to force feed pap. |
|
" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have." "Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue" All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. | |
![]() |
|
| 5thwheeler | Oct 17 2005, 01:32 PM Post #20 |
|
Get the message?
|
Profits, profits, profits motivated Columbus. Columbus was profiter first and foremost. Visionary...well yes... but was the concept of sailing west to reach India really his idea? The fact that the earth is round, and its approximate size was well known for over 1500 years prior to Columbus. Was he an explorer... yes, but not in the scientific way we attribute to explorers today. If the Islamic controlled trade routes to India and the far east were not cut off to Spain, and, if the route around Africa wasn't so treacherous, would Columbus ever have sailed west? Not a chance! |
|
History 101: When a popular myth is believed to be factual, teach the myth. Its not possible to underestimate the intelligence of the voting populous. Hummm, after seeing the results of the 06 election, I may have to modify my perception of the voting populous and refer to them as "Late Bloomers".
| |
![]() |
|
| cmoehle | Oct 17 2005, 04:14 PM Post #21 |
|
Chris - San Antonio TX
|
Frank, agree defined labels are necessary, but the problem with your definition,as I see it, is everything you happen to disagree with is liberal and everything you agree with is conservative. That's far too personal a thing to really be shared as you assume it is by thinking it is understod by most people. It's almost what I see as a religious view where you got a whole lot of people (not all) nodding their heads and mumbling I believe and I'm good and they're evil, yet not one of them can tell you what exactly it is they believe for if they could and dared to they would find themselves worlds apart. Now I say that even though I agree with many of the things you say, just that I don't distinguish lib from con so much as principled people from unprincipled, power-hungry politicians, "regardless", like you say, "of which side of the isle the elected official .. sits". I think it frames politics as a dichotomy that never existed. I think it masks the real issues we face as a people all too conveniently for those very politicians. Again, I think we stand close in principle and on many issues, just not the language used. |
|
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
![]() |
|
| cmoehle | Oct 17 2005, 04:55 PM Post #22 |
|
Chris - San Antonio TX
|
Frank, just an example of why the labels do not fit anymore... Bush's Disaster Socialism
Those days are gone. |
|
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
![]() |
|
| cmoehle | Oct 17 2005, 05:00 PM Post #23 |
|
Chris - San Antonio TX
|
Though a few hang tenaciously on, the old pompously elite truth sayer, Rush "Rumpelstiltskin" Limbaugh: Holding Court: There's a crackdown over Miers, not a "crackup.". |
|
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
![]() |
|
| MDPD6320 | Oct 17 2005, 05:27 PM Post #24 |
![]()
Frank - Gainesville, Florida
|
I undestand your position, and mostly agree. I think we differ in how to counter the socialistic advances that people, mostly those that pay no taxes, are demanding. I look at politics as a game of "take what you can from who you can and when you can" I see only two or maybe three things that GWB has done that are "good" He drew a line against terrorist and has stuck to it. I think we got a good Chief Justice to replace a good Chief Justice I think the UN was exposed for what it is, an organization that is rife with corruption and looking to fleece the US. Bolton was a good appointment. If we get an originalist to replace O'Connor that would be four. On the other side we have massive spending and expansion of entitlements that will cause us big problems down the road. No action by anyone about illegal immirgration several other things that I do not need to enumerate. As I have said, it only takes a few people to influence a congressional election. Like minded (converative, Jeffersonial liberals, originalist whatever you want to call them) must find out which candidate is running as a conservative (probably the republican) but is not really what we want and be sure to run a real conservative against him hopefully costing him the election. The next election will present to the electrate a candidate more in tune with the music played. You don't need to win the seat, you need only to deny it. |
|
" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have." "Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue" All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. | |
![]() |
|
| cmoehle | Oct 17 2005, 05:38 PM Post #25 |
|
Chris - San Antonio TX
|
I am more philosophical to your practical. You will get things done while I'm still talking, no doubt about that. How about fiscal conservatives, as opposed to neo-social(ist) conservatives? Perhaps the same for liberals, fiscal and socialist. Thing is I fear is we're already faced with the next logical step, nationalist socialism. |
|
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
![]() |
|
| MDPD6320 | Oct 17 2005, 06:50 PM Post #26 |
![]()
Frank - Gainesville, Florida
|
Danger from the left (my verbage) is real, Soros and those that depend on him for $$ and therefore political life will sell their souls. I believe he is a communist, and that those around him are completely devoid of scruples when it comes to US independance. This is compounded by those that seek some type of compatability (McCaine comes to mind) These "accomodators" must be defeated. They are more a threat than the Pelosi, Kenney. Kerry and Clinton bunch. The liberterians appear to seek to elect candidates. This is a road that leads nowhere. When you try to appeal to people you only alienate others. But be against (a philosophy, idea, group) and many will follow. |
|
" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have." "Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue" All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. | |
![]() |
|
| cmoehle | Oct 17 2005, 07:41 PM Post #27 |
|
Chris - San Antonio TX
|
Socialism has a history of defeating itself, I'm against neo-socialist conservatives who seek to take their place. Good appraisal of Libertarians, we stand for something. Reps and Dems stand against things, it's too easy. |
|
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
![]() |
|
| cmoehle | Oct 18 2005, 11:34 AM Post #28 |
|
Chris - San Antonio TX
|
Here's another list of Bush's socialist policies. Explains why fiscal conservatives are revolting, but not big government neo-socialist cons. Conservative Revolt Long in the Making
|
|
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
![]() |
|
| « Previous Topic · Soapbox · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2








10:34 AM Jul 13