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| Taxes! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 8 2005, 08:43 AM (794 Views) | |
| kajtek1 | Oct 9 2005, 09:55 AM Post #31 |
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Kris, CA
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Chris is in wrong business, or he isn't making enough. Rich people don't pay taxes. Take an investor for example. He buys $1 mil property for business. In 2 years he refinance and pulls $300,000 cash. Two years later he sells the property and does 1031 exchange, transferring all the net cash to new deal. No taxes apply, while the $300k makes nice petty cash. |
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| Colo_Crawdad | Oct 9 2005, 09:56 AM Post #32 |
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Lowell
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Just to interject another way of looking at "fairness" in taxation: consider "marginal pain" caused by paying the tax. For example, it is much more painful to pay 10% on $10,00.00 than it is to pay 20% on $100,000.00. Given that measurement device, progressive income taxes are by far more fair that many other forms of taxes. |
| "WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US." --- Pogo | |
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| kajtek1 | Oct 9 2005, 10:00 AM Post #33 |
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Kris, CA
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I am afraid Colo, that you don't really know what progressive taxes mean. Doing business in communism I was subject to 80% income taxes. There was no way to live there without money exchanged under the table. |
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| cmoehle | Oct 9 2005, 10:01 AM Post #34 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Let us be very clear here, it is not my version of anything. The Fair Tax proposal is a very specific piece of legislature that I happen to support. Current income or payroll taxes are regressive. The Fair Tax proposed is not. it is progressive. "I spend very little of my income on things you would tax, as do many people with fairly large incomes. You'd end up paying more taxes on less income than I do." What exactly is this an argument against? To repeat: "The FairTax is a single-rate, federal retail sales tax collected only once, at the final point of purchase of new goods and services for personal consumption. " The amount of taxes paid is dependent on how much new goods and services I purchase. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| cmoehle | Oct 9 2005, 10:04 AM Post #35 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Kris "Rich people don't pay taxes." Precisely why this tax is called the Fair Tax. Under the current system, the rich pay little or no taxes. Under the Fair Tax only new real estate purchases would be taxed. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| corky52 | Oct 9 2005, 10:06 AM Post #36 |
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Member
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Chris, How many pair of shoes do you buy? If I make 10 times more money than you do I but ten times more shoes? I have business that would hide a large amount of my toys, tools, computers, etc. Your tax will never pass because it would fall most heavily on women and their purchases. Try selling this tax to Crissy, Frank might buy it till Chrissy got his ear. |
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| cmoehle | Oct 9 2005, 10:07 AM Post #37 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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This is where the progressive aspect of the Fair Tax comes into play. Fair Tax FAQ: "Is the FairTax progressive? Do the rich pay more and the poor pay less as a percentage of their spending? Absolutely, as you can see in Figure 5 below – where the graph shows annual expenditures for a family of four and the corresponding FairTax effective tax rates. The poor actually pay less than zero-percent retail sales tax on their spending. Much like with the earned income tax credit of today, the rebate may give them more money than they actually spend on retail taxes. Especially if they are frugal and buy mostly used products. On the other hand, the wealthy approach a maximum of 23-percent retail sales tax on their spending. "
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Colo_Crawdad | Oct 9 2005, 10:08 AM Post #38 |
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Lowell
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Perhaps this will help us all understand better the difference between progressive and regressive taxes. Progressive & Regressive taxes/taxation explained |
| "WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US." --- Pogo | |
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| cmoehle | Oct 9 2005, 10:12 AM Post #39 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Corky "How many pair of shoes do you buy? If I make 10 times more money than you do I but ten times more shoes?" Huh? Under the Fair Tax, I would pay the same amount of tax for each purchase of news shoes that you would. We each have a choice of how many we purchase. Under the payroll tax, we each pay taxes regardless. "I have business that would hide a large amount of my toys, tools, computers, etc." Nope, your business would be taxed for these purchases. The exemptions in the miles of current tax code go away. "Your tax will never pass because it would fall most heavily on women and their purchases. Try selling this tax to Crissy, Frank might buy it till Chrissy got his ear." I won't speak for others. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| corky52 | Oct 9 2005, 10:16 AM Post #40 |
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Member
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" The FairTax is a single-rate, federal retail sales tax collected only once, at the final point of purchase of new goods and services for personal consumption. Used items are not taxed. Business-to-business purchases for the production of goods and services are not taxed." Try again Chris! |
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| cmoehle | Oct 9 2005, 10:29 AM Post #41 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Sorry, Corky, that is a statement from those who propose the Fair Tax. Do you want to continue creating straw man arguments, or did you have an argument against the Fair Tax proposal? |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| corky52 | Oct 9 2005, 10:37 AM Post #42 |
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Member
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Chris, No answer so you declare it a strawman, very good. Look at the phrase "business to business" and think a bit. |
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| cmoehle | Oct 9 2005, 11:01 AM Post #43 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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No, Corky, you are arguing against something else. Go ahead, but don't act like you expect me to defend against it, whatever it is, I've got nothing to say about it, not remotely interested. I'm interested in the Fair Tax. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Colo_Crawdad | Oct 9 2005, 11:11 AM Post #44 |
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Lowell
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Chris, I'm confused. How does Corky arguing the following taken directly from the "Fair Tax" link make him arguing against "something else?" It clearly states that buisneses do not pay taxes on purchases from other businesses. I am also concerned that it says clearly that it takes a rebate to make it a progressive tax. Doesn't identifying rebates effectively involve the government in the decisions?
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| "WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US." --- Pogo | |
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| cmoehle | Oct 9 2005, 11:18 AM Post #45 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Neither his earlier ""Any consumption tax makes the government a partner in every business transaction" nor your opposite "It clearly states that buisneses do not pay taxes on purchases from other businesses." is what the Fair Tax quote says. It says "Business-to-business purchases for the production of goods and services are not taxed." |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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