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They Got Us Runnin Scared
Topic Started: Oct 7 2005, 02:52 PM (770 Views)
cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Or so it seems. It is something that can happen, but is it, how do you show it? Or is it genuine? Perhaps it's the not knowing. Fear of the unknown.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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passinthru
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John - Gainesville, FL
FDR was a better leader in times of uncertainty: "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself."
Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money...
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corky52
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All these Christians who believe in an afterlife sure seem scared of having to leave this life. Wussies :wait:
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Jelly Bean
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nooooowwww corky! :floorrollin:
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
"All these Christians who believe in an afterlife sure seem scared of having to leave this life."

Actually, it's the opposite. Those who accept the Armageddon ur-myth as literal relish the thought.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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bikemanb
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Liberal Conservative
To quote Ben Franklin, one of my favorite founders:

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Bill, Rita and Chloe the Terror Cat

For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged, by better information or fuller consideration, to change opinions, even on important subjects, which I once thought right but found to be otherwise.

Benjamin Franklin
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Banandangees
Member
Nothing wrong with fear. Fear can be a great motivator.

In the U.S., one hesitates to stike first for fear of litigation or punisment. Often we muist wait until your fist meets my nose.

Our freedoms (which are being encroached upon by bigger government) are not at the expense of fear. Freedom means a degree of openness and therefore a degree of fear. Fear not so much from within, but from without. We fear towards the unlawful, not against the law abider. In the U.S. there should be the least fear of our central Government (as compared to the old Russia/USSR, Hitler's Germany, Saadam's Iraq where there was a real legit fear).

We have little fear from within but with the free openness of our society, which is what we want, we fear what might freely walk among us from outside. Saadam's Iraqis didn't so much worry about what might come from outside. They worried about what might come from inside.

I'd rather have our fears. When our fears get to a level (as with the bombing of Pearl Harbor or the Twin Towers) then, as General Patton said to his men, "you'll know what to do."

Without personal weapons, governments can more easily take control of populations. The writers of the Constitution realized that. With that, there will be abuses; but, the safeguards of having them may out-weigh the bad. The writers of the Constitution were pretty savy folks who seemed to have an uncanny foresight.

Fear can be a good thing.
Banan
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
"I'd rather have our fears."

Than our liberties?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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brewster
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
Quote:
 
Without personal weapons, governments can more easily take control of populations. The writers of the Constitution realized that. With that, there will be abuses; but, the safeguards of having them may out-weigh the bad.

Rubbish. Check any Arab Country. High weapon ownership, ongoing abuse by dictatorial regimes, plus HUGE problems with killings by small splinter groups, and it's been going on since long before the US/UK stepped in.

The only thing that keeps countries like Canada, the US, and the UK from becoming military dictatorships is the mythos of the superiority of the Democratic form of Government.

As soon as any of our Militaries stop believing in that Mythos, Dictatorship will result.

And you're going to stand in front of an Abrams or Leopard tank with your Winchester? :floorrollin:
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brewster
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
I would also point out that an armed citizenry has always been a danger, at least in the 20th Century.

Armed thugs were the main tool used by Hitler, Mussolini, Lenin/Stalin, & Franco to gain Totalitarian power, acting at a point when the Nation's strong military was weakened and unable to defend established or nacent democracies.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
I wish you would point that out.

Those armed thugs had no armed citizens to deal with.

Why equate thugs with citizens?.

A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained in arms, is the best most natural defense of a free country.
--James Madison
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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brewster
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
The Bolsheviks did face an armed citizenry (other than themselves), and blew the White Russian Nationalists right out of the water. So did Franco's Fascists, although they DID have some help from Hitler.

But you're missing the point. They WERE the armed citizenry. That's the problem. Our democracy is dependent on the defence supplied by the armed forces.

But once again, we're REALLY defended by people's own belief that Liberal Democracy is the Government of Choice.

Hitler won primarily because Germany was in such poor financial shape that his reforms, which jump-started the economy, were accepted as good by the citizenry, better than the bankrupt democracy which had been in place. Armed or not, they would not have opposed him in large numbers early enough to matter.

WWI Russia was much the same, in total chaos.
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brewster
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Madison didn't live in the 20th Century.

And I would argue vehemently that giving every citizen a concealed pistol does not immediately meet Madison's criteria of a "Well Regulated Militia"

But then, a Militia Regulated by ???? sounds a lot closer to Hitler's brownshirts than any desirable force...
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Bow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta
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feddoc
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brewster
Oct 8 2005, 11:30 PM
I would also point out that an armed citizenry has always been a danger, at least in the 20th Century.

Armed thugs were the main tool used by Hitler, Mussolini, Lenin/Stalin, & Franco to gain Totalitarian power, acting at a point when the Nation's strong military was weakened and unable to defend established or nacent democracies.

Brewster, you know that comparing the two does not mean they are the same.

BTW, why has violent crime decreased yet manufacture of guns has increased? Where is the danger?
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feddoc
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brewster
Oct 9 2005, 12:42 AM
Madison didn't live in the 20th Century.

And I would argue vehemently that giving every citizen a concealed pistol does not immediately meet Madison's criteria of a "Well Regulated Militia"

But then, a Militia Regulated by ???? sounds a lot closer to Hitler's brownshirts than any desirable force...

I would argue that you are wrong.
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