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Why Is Government Getting So Big?
Topic Started: Oct 6 2005, 05:22 AM (62 Views)
cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Interesting piece, Why Is Government Getting So Big?. I'd post it in entirety but there are important diagrams, so won't post but ask you to read at the other end of the link.

The essence of the argument is we have big government partly because it's what the people want, partly because the major parties prefer power to principles, and partly because of the Libertarian voter.

As a Libertarian I of course react negatively to this argument, but cannot at this time find a reasonable counter argument. It goes beyond the obvious flaw in the argument presented in the article: Libertarians voting again Republican liberalism do not vote for Democratic liberalism but for Libertarian conservatism--goes beyond because it can be argued that indirectly, while that is not the intent, that is the effect.

I don't think it gives liberals an argument against libertarianism, but, and I'm still struggling with this, it may give conservatives one.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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DanHouck
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Land of Enchantment NM
Quote:
 
This observation, combined with their fury at the Right's betrayal, persuades the Clever Libertarians to pursue their small-government dream by ignoring the small-government rhetoric of the Right (hypocrites and liars!), and voting for the Left instead.


Uh uh, I don't think so. I think they pretty much stayed home or voted for the Libertarian candidate.

Quote:
 
In that case, Bush wouldn't need to try to expand the Republican base with a big Katrina relief package. Bush would be stronger vis-à-vis the Democrats, and the conservative base would be stronger vis-à-vis Bush.


Nope, Bush IS a liberal just like his father. He pushes this BS like "No Child Left Behind" because at the core, he believes in governmental activism. Bush is ONLY a conservative when it comes to "bedroom" issues.

Very interesting piece, Chris, thanks for posting it.

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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
You're welcome.

I'm not sure Bush thinks in terms of liberal or conservative like most people do. I think a lot of it is about power, about being liked, about legacy. So to become the uniter he promised he expands his base more and more to the left, stretching the faith of the right.

On Libertarians, right, they didn't vote Democrat but Libertarian, almost becoming spoilers. The article better describes disgruntled Republicans who switched sides for various reasons.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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brewster
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
I really don't think ANY government sets out to be bigger in order to concentrate/usurp power.

The bottom line is there is huge percentage of the public who don't care about size or power, never even consider it.

They just want big daddy to fix it all...

And politicians oblige, as it is more likely to get them (re)elected than trying to explain the philosophy of governing responsibly.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
"as it is more likely to get them (re)elected"

Yes, both. Which is the given backdrop of the article, upon which the effect of the Libertarian vote is drawn.

Like Dan, however, I don't see Libertarians voting for Dems in opposition to liberal Reps. In fact, having thought it out some, I see the Liberatarian vote as accomplishing two things: Giving voice to raising the bar of "the philosophy of governing responsibly" and demanding a shift to the right in terms of economic, personal and political freedom. The hope, idealistic as it might be, is that if the voce becomes strong enough, then one of the two parties will listen and shift right on the scale of freedom, could be either party as history has shown--or form a strong enough party in its own right to force the other two to merge to maintain their power, which history has shown could happen as well.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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MDPD6320
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Frank - Gainesville, Florida


A good article. Of course you never vote or assist the opposition to punish those that displease you.
The way to move politicians is by denying them office by voting for someone more conservative (if that's the movement you want). If things don't get better that's what I will probably do in 08. I'd rather have an enemy I know in the White House than one I think is a friend but wonder about all the time.
" The government big enough to give you everything you want it is big enough to take everything you have."

"Extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice, and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue"

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Yeah, I think the article would have better labeled swing voters centrists or moderates or independents.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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