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| Another David Souter; matbe a liberal in disguise | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 3 2005, 09:40 AM (557 Views) | |
| Jelly Bean | Oct 4 2005, 11:58 AM Post #16 |
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didn't realize the "I may not always feel that way"...comment would come true so soon. I am now officially bummed and scared: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=46641
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| campingken | Oct 4 2005, 11:58 AM Post #17 |
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Over 60% of Americans favor legal abortions. If the Supreme Court was to over turn Roe v. Wade some states would outlaw abortions and others wouldn't. Personally I don't care one way or another if someone has an abortion or not. However I do care when the government wants to climb through my bedroom window and tell my wife and me how to live our lives. Ken Sequim Wa |
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| PRT | Oct 4 2005, 12:57 PM Post #18 |
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The World Net Daily article above doesn't scare me. Judges aren't supposed to do morality. They assure that the Constitution and laws are followed properly. This is not about morality or religion. It's about the law and the Constitution. Re the AIDS component in Dallas - just as another scenario - let's say I am a citizen of NY and make less than $12,000 a year for discussion's sake. All citizens of NY who make less than $12,000 a year are entitled to free health care according to the law. It doesn't matter what's wrong with a citizen - if they qualify under the law they are entitled to free health care. If I can prove that I am a citizen of this state and have a qualifying income, it doesn't matter to the law what the heck is wrong with me. I get health care and it's free. I could have AIDS or muscular dystrophy. My disease is not the qualifier. On edit. I have absolutely no idea what NY law reads about free health care. Strictly an explanatory scenario here. |
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| Jelly Bean | Oct 4 2005, 01:30 PM Post #19 |
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doesn't really matter anymore anyway, Christian or otherwise, moral or not,...people will do what they want, and where their hearts are their mouths will speak... even if it was to be illegal, if folks want to act evilly, they will. Killing the unborn, the most defenseless of all human beings in the world...has got to be the most atrocious thing we do on the planet. God help us all. |
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| PRT | Oct 4 2005, 01:48 PM Post #20 |
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But, you can't legislate morality. It won't work as you say. We have free will. We make choices. There's really only one judge that matters. No one appointed Him. |
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| cmoehle | Oct 4 2005, 04:21 PM Post #21 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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"This is not about morality or religion." It shouldn't be. "It's about the law and the Constitution." It should be. "you can't legislate morality" Happens everyday. And adjudicate it, and administer it. We protect life, protect rights, and privileges, like health care, because it is moral, because we decide it is so. It will be short-lived if it's not truly of, by and for the people. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| PRT | Oct 4 2005, 05:06 PM Post #22 |
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That's not exactly what I meant. I was really referring to JB's post about people doing evil if they want to. I probably should have said you can't really prevent immorality just because laws are in place. Laws are moral in nature, as you note, but people have free will and choose whichever path they want. |
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| cmoehle | Oct 4 2005, 05:32 PM Post #23 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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I was wondering that, too, but went the other way with it. Yes, you're right too. Society cannot completely prevent immoral actions, can try, through family, schools, community, even punishment, but not prevent it. It's man's basic nature some say. What I was getting at was more the question of what is moral, and who is to decide. To me the decision-making needs to be systemic, constrained by small, careful changes, and attempts by individuals to solve moral issues, usually with sweeping, unconstrained changes, usually lead to worse problems. Both points fit here. Mine that such a drastic swing from left to right would leave the nation split and unstable when it needs at this time unity and stability. Yours that even if some activist judge declares some action immoral it won't stop people from doing it, and in worse and more dangerous ways. History tells us both stories. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| DocInBird | Oct 4 2005, 05:35 PM Post #24 |
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Pat, you make a good point, in that morality has nothing to do with religion - it has to do with societal norms and customs. Those that tout piety in religion often have a poor grasp of morality. Witness Tom DeLay, W, et. al. They spout the Ten Commandments, yet want to choose which ones to follow, at any given time. I believe that you CAN legislate morality. mo·ral·i·ty Audio pronunciation of "morality" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-rl-t, mô-) n. pl. mo·ral·i·ties 1. The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct. 2. A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct: religious morality; Christian morality. 3. Virtuous conduct. 4. A rule or lesson in moral conduct. Killing people is wrong. Is that not an accepted concept of morality? Stealing is wrong. Is that not also accepted? If you look at the things done in the name of God, around the world, you will be shocked. Female genital mutilation, the Taliban (and like sects) regulation of women, the legalized murder of women in Pakistan for "family honor", and the list is very long. All claim that they were within their moral code and all were right. What is the moral code that Tom DeLay adheres to? What is the moral code that W adheres to? Even Hitler adhered to a moral code, but what was it? So, what is the moral code of the new nominee? We are not allowed to know until she is confirmed. She is now going through the same training process that allowed Roberts to avoid all questions until confirmed. |
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--doc Just Doc and Orson (German Shepherd) wandering around North America. | |
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| cmoehle | Oct 5 2005, 04:55 AM Post #25 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Indeed, morals are a social matter. It's almost ironic if you think back to the 2000 election debates where Bush promised conservative constructionist nominees along the lines of Scalia and Thomas and Gore warned that social conservatives saw that as a code for judicial activism on their agendas re abortion, gay marriage and the like. How true that was, apparently, from the reactions of Rush, Brownbeck, Dobson, Perkins and others. The irony being it took one who sought liberal judicial activisim to see the same liberal desires in social cons who somehow have managed to confuse their radical agendas as based on any sort of conservative principles or construction on the Constitution. Bush may well have delivered--a rarity--on a promise. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| cmoehle | Oct 5 2005, 05:27 AM Post #26 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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John Cornyn seems to get it: Harriet Miers
Well, he hits a foul on whether we have a democratic or republican form of government, but he's in the ballpark. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Colo_Crawdad | Oct 5 2005, 07:49 AM Post #27 |
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Lowell
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From those Presidential debates:
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| "WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US." --- Pogo | |
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| Fr. Mike | Oct 5 2005, 08:58 AM Post #28 |
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Can being a strict constitutional constructionist be viewed as activism if the result is to reverse previous decisions deemed "judicial activism"? Many believe that past decisions did in fact legislate from the bench. Reeling in this past activism may in itself be viewed as a new form of activism. |
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A humble servant of the Lord Jesus Christ Don't forget to say your prayers! The unborn have rights too. | |
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| cmoehle | Oct 5 2005, 10:47 AM Post #29 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Mike, I wouldn't consider undoing activist decisions activism if it centers on the Law (precedent, including dissents) and the Constitution (construction). Undoing Roe v Wade would likly return it to the states where the Roe v Wade opinion was already being adopted by most states. But if it swings to an oppositely radical position, as some social cons desire, then it would also be activism. In my thinking as well the legislative and executive branches can be considered activist if they enact laws or exact policies outside a strict construction on the Constitution. The judicial check on that is not activism. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Fr. Mike | Oct 5 2005, 08:19 PM Post #30 |
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Well I certainly agree that it should be a matter left with the States. I was thinking just yesterday about the problem we have with a Supreme Court or 9th Circuit deciding issues that concern the people of Arizona. Each state and region has its own mores and social order. Even though Justice O'Connor comes from the copper state, she hardly understands the concerns of somebody living in Maine. The State Constituiton of Maine should be what the maine citizens use and have agreed to. Justice Stevens Ginburg, Thomas, Scalia, Souter and the others have no business deciding Arizona issues. They don't live here. The US Constitution should concern itself with Federal issues. We need to use the Bill of Rights as a basis for all State Constituions, but not allow it or the overall Federal Constituion legislate matters that interfer with a states mores. Anyway--that is my humble opinion. |
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A humble servant of the Lord Jesus Christ Don't forget to say your prayers! The unborn have rights too. | |
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