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| Time To Put Heads On The Block; Iraq goal setting? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 2 2005, 09:05 PM (492 Views) | |
| brewster | Oct 3 2005, 04:49 PM Post #16 |
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
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Stick with wining... I always do.... |
My Favourite CampsiteBow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta | |
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| corky52 | Oct 3 2005, 04:50 PM Post #17 |
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Caught me before I could edit it. Doesn't make much difference, situation isn't going anywhere! |
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| cmoehle | Oct 3 2005, 04:58 PM Post #18 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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I can agree with that, but it's not a good reason to pull out. That would be an act of irresponsibility. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| corky52 | Oct 3 2005, 05:13 PM Post #19 |
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Where did I say pull out????? Job is not getting done, just want to see good management used and an end to this "feel good" war for the brass and administration. |
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| cmoehle | Oct 3 2005, 05:29 PM Post #20 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Didn't. Just staing my position. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| jackd | Oct 3 2005, 05:47 PM Post #21 |
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Sorry, it might be a bad joke, but I had to post it
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Walk in front of me, you lead me, Walk behind me, I lead you Walk beside me, you are a friend. | |
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| brewster | Oct 3 2005, 06:01 PM Post #22 |
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
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Jack, I didn't know you had a Death Wish....
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My Favourite CampsiteBow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta | |
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| Banandangees | Oct 3 2005, 06:40 PM Post #23 |
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And, some would call those "killing your own" (like McVeigh and the North Carolina abortionist killer), terrorists. So, in Iraq, we are fighting terrorists.....lots of terrorists, who would love to fly planes into more of our buildings, if they could. Of course, that is not why we are in Iraq .. to keep them there so as not to come here and cause trouble. We are there to find those WMD. and we ain't leaving till we find them (and set up a secular democratic government in the meantime) .... right after we get them to agree on their religious diffenences.Von der Sunnis, the Shiites and the Kurds of the world unite, then what have we? Iraqiland uber all us. |
| Banan | |
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| cmoehle | Oct 3 2005, 06:57 PM Post #24 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Yes, they use terrorism. We went to war against global terrorism. You want to blur the line let's go down to Decator, AL, and haul off those cultist who vandalized a church during service, haul them off to Guantanimo. Therefore, I say: Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated. When you are ignorant of the enemy but know yourself, your chances of winning or losing are equal. If ignorant both of your enemy and of yourself, you are sure to be defeated in every battle. --Sun Tzu, The Art of War |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Banandangees | Oct 4 2005, 07:31 AM Post #25 |
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All I am saying is: all the terrorists in Iraq (those who kill us and their own) are our enemy... just as much as OBL, those terrorists born in Iraq, those who cross the borders, those (individuals and nations) who harbor terrorists, those who flew the planes into the twin towers, those who preach hate and destruction toward the west whether in Spain, GB or the U.S.. They are all our enemy. They aren't always easily identified, but nevertheless, they our our enemy what ever soil they stand on. Fight them where you find them. |
| Banan | |
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| cmoehle | Oct 4 2005, 10:38 AM Post #26 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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I understand that. But I disagree that local terrorists are who we need to fight as it sidetracks us from fighting those who do threaten us, global terrorists. The two are different and were distinguished until we invaded Iraq, then that distinction was blurred. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| DocInBird | Oct 4 2005, 05:44 PM Post #27 |
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The problem is that this is W's private war. He did it because he wanted to. At no time was the US under threat from Iraq, despite his posturing. It was an ego trip for him, and a way to boost his ratings. Did you notice how his ratings rose after he strutted accross that air craft carrier with his padded codspiece? There can be no sensible solution to this war, because there was no sensible reason for it to begin with. For the amount of money spent on this war, thus far, we could have simply bought all of their oil rights. There was no reason to bomb their water and electrical processing facilities as "strategic targets", unless we wanted the country to collapse into chaos. As I said, this is W's private war. |
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--doc Just Doc and Orson (German Shepherd) wandering around North America. | |
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| cmoehle | Oct 4 2005, 06:29 PM Post #28 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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I just don't see anything to support that. We've been interfering in Iraq a long time, friend, then foe, and, pushed by neocons himself, Clinton set policy Bush carried out. I believe he believed and still believes it was the right thing to do. I disagree, think he was wrong, but believe that about him. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Banandangees | Oct 4 2005, 06:57 PM Post #29 |
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" I just don't see anything to support that." Me either. It may have been a mistake to go to war in Iraq; but, for Bush to go there as his own private war just to boost ratings or for some ego trip reason ..... you'd have to be a real sicko to do that. I really believed he thought (as well as a large percent of the national politicos and European nations) that there were WMD there. The facts that Saddam used chemical agents that killed thousands of Kurds and that he did have a nuclear plant in the 80s that Israel destroyed strongly suggested that WMD that he might use or lend to international terrorists, were a possibility. And who is to say that the war on international terror would not have taken us to Iraq eventually anyway as those who are anti-Iraq war would say that we should be going to Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia ... the more terroristically breeding countries. But you are right, it seems as though the Iraq war has bogged us down when it comes to the war against international terror. But I think Bush did what he thought (and was told) was the course to take. The fear for our country wasn't for what Iraq could have done by itself. Israel, I am sure, was a factor. Some would say, "the hell with Israel." But to turn our backs on our allies, any allies, because we don't want to get involved....well, what goes around, comes around. |
| Banan | |
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| passinthru | Oct 4 2005, 07:18 PM Post #30 |
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John - Gainesville, FL
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While I don't agree with Doc's reasoning, I do think that we got there because Bush wanted to be there. Many years ago I was asked to come up with an economic promotion for a gold mine. I came up with an answer that didn't please the owner; he said I trying to sell this thing not buy it. I told him the work was accurate based on what he told me. He wanted to know what facts needed to change to make it profitable. I was finished at that point, he had to go elsewhere to get his facts straight. Later, I found out from a friend a DuPont that they had come to the same conclusion that I had reached. The point is that if you want to take a certain action, you find the facts to support it and ignore the ones that don't support it. As I remember, the sales job didn't go well around the world with our allies except for Britain. Like you say Banan, you don't turn your back on your allies; that may be why the coalition has so many allied countries that contributed a few hundred troops each to our 130,000. They didin't turn their backs, but they weren't there shoulder to shoulder either. |
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and we ain't leaving till we find them (and set up a secular democratic government in the meantime) .... right after we get them to agree on their religious diffenences.

1:04 PM Jul 11