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Bennett
Topic Started: Oct 1 2005, 07:07 AM (774 Views)
cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
feddoc to Kate: "It will be interesting to see if you hold those same values to those with which you agree with politically."

In Kate's defense, she is probably more conservative than you. Her criticism is as genuine as the President's was. What Bennett said was, to be PC, inappropriate.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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Kate and Ed
Raleigh NC
Feddoc, what Chris said.

JMO but not Bennett's most articulate moment.

Kate
of Kate and Ed Posted Image

"Patriotism is easy to understand in America; it means looking out for yourself by looking out for your country."

Calvin Coolidge, 30th President of the US
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
This might give some better perspective for those who think this is an attack on what Bennett used to stand for, for those who think everything is about partisan politics. It goes back to revelations about his gambling habit, but fits as well here.

Bill Bennet, Virtue, Hypocrisy, and Vice
Quote:
 
One of the things I don't do a good job of as a "blogger" is to jump all over the story of the day and quickly add my witty and insightful take. I used to do this sort of thing but I seem to have run out of energy once I realized that there were like half-a-million people doing it and most better than me. But once in a while I like to weigh in on issues of the day (usually a day late and a dollar short) and offer my opinion.

As Bill Bennet's gambling seems to be getting a rise out of everybody lately I thought I would offer my two cents (or nickel's worth as it were):

I am not a huge fan of Bill Bennet. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against him personally and by all accounts he is a decent guy. No, my thoughts on Bill Bennet stem more from the fact that he seems to have become a media personality more than anything else. The more his career advanced the less substance seemed to be involved. It seemed clear to me that he was not really a thinker or a scholar so much as a packager and a talking head (with assistants to write and prepare much of what he said and wrote.) in a world already overflowing with talking heads. Sure most of what he said and wrote was conservative and vaguely helpful but it didn't strike me as earth shattering or particularly insightful. I must admit I was also disappointed when he declined to accept the VP slot. Obviously he needed to decide what was best for him and his family but it always struck me as somewhat cowardly. Here was a guy who was always criticizing and advising the GOP on what to do; a guy clearly comfortable lecturing the rest of the world. And yet when given the opportunity to take one for the team, he declined.

Now along comes his gambling. I am somewhere in the middle on this one. I don't see it as akin to being caught with a prostitute or something. I mean the guy has a lot of money and he apparently enjoyed wagering it as a way to blow off steam. He didn't put his family finances at risk nor did he get involved with any unseemly characters during the process. That said, I find it a glaring weakness in his temperament. How a person could in good conscience waste so much money is beyond me. I mean it is one thing to make a game of golf "really mean something" between a bunch of wealthy friends or even to spend a lot of money on cars or boats or vacation homes. These are the type of things rich people do. They have enough money that they can spend a much higher percentage of their income on luxury items or they can risk a lot more on friendly wagers. But to blow 8 million dollars over ten years is to lack all perspective - to take high risk entertainment to an asinine level. Bennet might not have loose morals but he is certainly unstable. One would think that just knowing the potential loss of credibility (fair or not) that such a revelation might engender would have given Bennet pause before continuing such activities. Again, that he didn't seem to care about or see the risk to his credibility implies a lack of clarity or stability.

From a Christian perspective this is even worse. It seems impossible to reconcile scripture with the waste of billions of dollars on games of chance. Christians live under a higher standard than mere legality. Jesus' message on the Sermon on the Mount or Paul's discussion of the fruits of the spirit lead one towards an ethic of humility, stewardship, charity, and selflessness. A constant pattern of gambling large sums of money should raise a red flag.

This does not mean that everything Bennet said or wrote is suspect. Belief in right and wrong; building character through the practice of virtue; and the upholding of moral standards in public life do not lose their validity or power simply because one man has a weakness.

To me there is a great deal more irony than hypocrisy involved. Legally risking millions in high stake games of chance might not be illegal or immoral but it certainly isn't virtuous. Bennet's work seemed to say to young Americans: choose to do what is right and what is good rather than what is possible or easy. It is good advice. It is unfortunate that Bennet didn't think more deeply about how that might apply in his own life.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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feddoc
Member
cmoehle
Oct 2 2005, 01:30 PM


In Kate's defense, she is probably more conservative than you.

Not likely.


Also not likely that she needs someone to defend her.


Additionally, not much was said in the press when these comments were made. They didn't seem interested.


Rep. Rangel said, "George Bush is our Bull Connor," referring to the former Birmingham, Ala., police commissioner who, in 1963, turned fire hoses and attack dogs on civil rights activists, including Martin Luther King Jr. REP. Major Owens, D-N.Y., elaborated, "Bull Connor didn't even pretend that he cared about African-Americans. You have to give it to George Bush for being even more diabolical. . . . This is worse than Bull Connor." Rev. Al Sharpton chimed in, "We've gone from fire hoses to levees." New York City Councilman Charles Barron said Rangel's statement was " . . . an insult to Connor. George Bush is worse, because he has more power and he's more destructive to our people. . . . A KKK without power is not as bad as a George Bush with power."



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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Likely.

Not likely.

Why didn't you say something? Besides, two wrongs don't make a right.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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feddoc
Member
cmoehle
Oct 6 2005, 04:37 PM
Likely.

Not likely.

Why didn't you say something? Besides, two wrongs don't make a right.

Not likely, not even close.
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tomdrobin
Member
What if he said, If we abort every caucasion baby the crime rate will go down. This is true also, but probably wouldn't have raised a such a PC fuss as his remark using blacks as an example. He was responding to a comment linking an increase in abortion rates to a decrease in crime.
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feddoc
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tomrobin, that was sorta my point.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Tom "What if he said, If we abort every caucasion baby the crime rate will go down. This is true also, but probably wouldn't have raised a such a PC fuss as his remark using blacks as an example."

feddoc "tomrobin, that was sorta my point."

It would be as racist and immoral a remark to make. What if he had said Jews?

That was sort of my point.

I have already addressed the PC aspect of this as well.


"He was responding to a comment linking an increase in abortion rates to a decrease in crime."

That is simply not accurate. Bennet made that comment, and he based it, as I pointed out earlier, on his own biased misreading of Freakonomics. He had been asked--baited is likely--about news articles linking abortion and loss of revenue to fund SS--and bit it hook line and sinker.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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feddoc
Member
Gotta have the last word, huh?? :tiphat:
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
What a lame response. Did you get caught being PC?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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feddoc
Member
Meant to be a joke...lighten up. I care not about being PC.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
OK, great.

But now you've got me interested in this PC thing. I mean the charge that someone is PC, which we hear all too often, is in itself often PC. It as if, in this case, the line of argument presented is a PC way of saying to question Bill Bennett is taboo, it's somehow sacred ground.

Perhaps you too could lighten up.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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Colo_Crawdad
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Lowell
tomdrobin
Oct 6 2005, 09:59 PM
What if he said, If we abort every caucasion baby the crime rate will go down. This is true also, but probably wouldn't have raised a such a PC fuss as his remark using blacks as an example. He was responding to a comment linking an increase in abortion rates to a decrease in crime.

Let me suggest that had he said that and had he been black, the right wing press and internet blogs would have been all over him for racism.
"WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US." --- Pogo
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tomdrobin
Member
cmoehle
Oct 7 2005, 10:29 AM
That is simply not accurate. Bennet made that comment, and he based it, as I pointed out earlier, on his own biased misreading of Freakonomics. He had been asked--baited is likely--about news articles linking abortion and loss of revenue to fund SS--and bit it hook line and sinker.

quote from Bennett: "BENNETT: All right, well, I mean, I just don't know. I would not argue for the pro-life position based on this, because you don't know. I mean, it cuts both -- you know, one of the arguments in this book Freakonomics that they make is that the declining crime rate, you know, they deal with this hypothesis, that one of the reasons crime is down is that abortion is up. Well --


I haven't read the book Chris so your ahead of me on that. But, his statement as quoted above says it is a hypothesis presented in the book. He does not say the book reaches this as a conclusion. So although he may be biased on what the book says, he is not entirely wrong when he mentions it. I listened to an interview about this incident on NPR. That's actually where I got the aborting all causcasion babies would have the same effect info. From a PC standpoint he put his foot in his mouth and said something politically damaging and unwise. I don't think it was intended as a racist remark, it was an anti-abortion remark. It is too bad they we have become so hypersensitive about statements concerning race, even ones that are true and statistically verfiable, that one slip of the tounge and an individual is villified and branded as racist.

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