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| Catch 22; Our dilemma | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 30 2005, 09:38 AM (339 Views) | |
| 5thwheeler | Sep 30 2005, 09:38 AM Post #1 |
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Get the message?
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Bombs Kill 105; U.S. Toll Grows In Washington, generals say only one Iraqi unit is ready to work on its own, down from three. By Louise Roug and Mark Mazzetti, Times Staff Writers BAGHDAD — A series of coordinated bombings killed 95 people in the Iraqi city of Balad on Thursday as U.S. military leaders in Washington downgraded their estimate of the number of Iraqi troops at the highest state of readiness. Commanders who visited Capitol Hill told lawmakers that U.S. troop reductions were needed in part to break an Iraqi "dependency" on American forces. But, underscoring the difficulty of disengaging, Army Gen. George W. Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, said the number of Iraqi units at the highest level of readiness had fallen from three battalions in June to one. U.S. officials also reported that five American soldiers had been killed by a roadside bomb the previous day, the deadliest single attack on U.S. forces in nearly two months. The five were attached to the 2nd Marine Division, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force. At least 13 members of the U.S. military have been killed in Iraq since Monday. Early today, a car bomb exploded at a market in the southern town of Hilla, killing five people and wounding 30, Iraqi authorities said. The attacks in Balad began just after dusk as shoppers wandered around a central marketplace. Two car bombs exploded minutes apart, transforming the tranquil square and surrounding areas into a scene of bloodshed and horror. A third blast elsewhere in the city followed a short time later. A pickup truck exploded near a bank, trapping families inside their burning cars. Firemen tried unsuccessfully to extinguish the flames engulfing a minibus packed with children. The firefighters eventually ran out of water as they battled several blazes, said Nadheer Sami Abdul Waheed, who was standing outside his appliance store when the bomb went off across the street. "I saw children burning with my own eyes," he said in a telephone interview. Police tried to evacuate the area, bringing people to a nearby square. The second bomb went off in the crowd of evacuees, witnesses said. The third bomb exploded near a Shiite shrine at a market popular with merchants and laborers. Local authorities originally reported that 70 people had died in the Balad bombings, but hospital director Qassum Aboud said today that the toll had climbed to 95. "We cannot cope with the number of casualties, so the number of deaths is increasing," he said. Dozens of children were among the more than 100 people injured, Iraqi authorities and hospital officials said. Balad Police Chief Col. Kadim Abdul Razzaq and four of his men were among those hurt. Several of the wounded were evacuated to a nearby American military base. Iraqis waited in line outside a local hospital during the evening to donate blood. Balad, about 50 miles north of Baghdad, is predominantly Shiite Muslim but is surrounded by Sunni villages. The Iraqi insurgency is dominated by Sunnis. Despite a recent escalation in attacks against the majority Shiites, influential clerics have urged restraint and have so far managed to prevent large-scale revenge killings. But Thursday's bombings further strained relations between the sects. "Over the past 18 months, we have built enough Iraqi capacity where we can begin talking seriously about transitioning this counterinsurgency mission to them," Casey told the Senate committee. But the commanders acknowledged under questioning that the number of Iraqi battalions considered to be at the highest level of readiness had fallen. Under a U.S. grading system, Iraqi battalions are designated Level 1 when they are capable of planning and executing counterinsurgency missions independent of U.S. troops. "We here, the Balad people, are whispering among ourselves," said Waheed, talking about the Shiite response. "We have noticed that the Sunnis haven't entered the city in the last five days. Why? This is my question." And that folks is our dilemma, the minority Sunnis know that when the US troops are withdrawn the majority Shiites are going to take retribution for the mass slaughtering of their people by the Sunni's. Also, the Sunnis are in the minority and will have little or no say in the future Iraqi government. What assurances can the US give to the Sunnis that the Shiites won't take retribution against them when we leave and to whom will the new security force show their allegiance? Bush says our troops will remain in Iraq as long as there are attacks by the Sunni insurgence, and the Sunni's know they must continue the attacks to keep US troops in Iraq to keep the Shiites at bay. Now if that ain't a Catch 22, then what is? |
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History 101: When a popular myth is believed to be factual, teach the myth. Its not possible to underestimate the intelligence of the voting populous. Hummm, after seeing the results of the 06 election, I may have to modify my perception of the voting populous and refer to them as "Late Bloomers".
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| cmoehle | Sep 30 2005, 11:03 AM Post #2 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Interesting take on the situation, that we may well have to stay there to protect the ones we are fighting. Hey. I just heard, iirc, Rumsfeld say there were something like 175,000 Iraqi troops trained. Something fishy there, maybe he should talk to the generals. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Mike327 | Sep 30 2005, 12:45 PM Post #3 |
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Delimma solved pull our troops out and push the damn button. |
| Mike, Susan, Brandon and toy Schnauser | |
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| corky52 | Sep 30 2005, 01:44 PM Post #4 |
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The enmity between the Sunni and the Shiite has been going on for how many thousand years? |
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| Jelly Bean | Sep 30 2005, 02:40 PM Post #5 |
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| 5thwheeler | Sep 30 2005, 03:22 PM Post #6 |
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Get the message?
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Well since the Prophet Muhammad was born in Makkah, present-day Saudi Arabia around 570 C.E. i'd say they've been killing each other for a little less then one thousand years, but that's not quite as long as Christians have been killing Christians. The Hebrews got both of them beat on that score. |
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History 101: When a popular myth is believed to be factual, teach the myth. Its not possible to underestimate the intelligence of the voting populous. Hummm, after seeing the results of the 06 election, I may have to modify my perception of the voting populous and refer to them as "Late Bloomers".
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| corky52 | Sep 30 2005, 03:27 PM Post #7 |
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5th, I do believe that the Sunni/Shiite enmity is as much ethnic as it is religious and predates even the Islamic religion. Arab Persian interface comes to mind. |
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| 5thwheeler | Sep 30 2005, 03:30 PM Post #8 |
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Get the message?
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Rumsfeld say there were something like 175,000 Iraqi troops trained to do what, attack Iran? Oh whats an exaggeration or two compared to the out and out deceit perpetrated on the American public. |
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History 101: When a popular myth is believed to be factual, teach the myth. Its not possible to underestimate the intelligence of the voting populous. Hummm, after seeing the results of the 06 election, I may have to modify my perception of the voting populous and refer to them as "Late Bloomers".
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| kajtek1 | Sep 30 2005, 03:34 PM Post #9 |
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Kris, CA
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I know, that history is not very good when it comes to Arab World, especially that far back, but to my knowledge those regional fights go for like 3000 years. How long Bush is going to be in the office? You guys translate it for me. What is Catch 22? |
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| 5thwheeler | Sep 30 2005, 03:47 PM Post #10 |
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Get the message?
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Pull out our troops is good... toasting everyone else is not good for the body bag industry. Beside, Halliburtan will loose a bundle of our tax money since there won't be a need for outhouses. What's a mother to do?
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History 101: When a popular myth is believed to be factual, teach the myth. Its not possible to underestimate the intelligence of the voting populous. Hummm, after seeing the results of the 06 election, I may have to modify my perception of the voting populous and refer to them as "Late Bloomers".
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| 5thwheeler | Sep 30 2005, 04:06 PM Post #11 |
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Get the message?
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To understand Catch 22 you should click on this link, read everything and you will understand everything about Catch 22. But keep this in mind, if you understand everything about Catch 22. then you really don't understand anything at all. Catch-22 Joseph Heller excerpt: Catch-22 is a military term that is confusing and difficult to describe. In short, its basic meaning is that if there was a rule, no matter what the rule is, there is always an exception to it. It is a mysterious regulation that is in essence a circular argument. This catch keeps Yossarian in the war because a concern for one's own life proved that he is not really crazy, and to get out of combat you have to be crazy. The catch is used by the superior powers to uphold and increase their power, and yet it is harmful to those who do not have power in the first place. It creates situations where, when you think everything is perfect, Catch-22 pops up and makes your plans impossible. |
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History 101: When a popular myth is believed to be factual, teach the myth. Its not possible to underestimate the intelligence of the voting populous. Hummm, after seeing the results of the 06 election, I may have to modify my perception of the voting populous and refer to them as "Late Bloomers".
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| corky52 | Sep 30 2005, 04:07 PM Post #12 |
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Only way to win the game is not to play! |
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| 5thwheeler | Sep 30 2005, 04:09 PM Post #13 |
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Get the message?
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But if you don't play the game, you can't win. Catch-22 |
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History 101: When a popular myth is believed to be factual, teach the myth. Its not possible to underestimate the intelligence of the voting populous. Hummm, after seeing the results of the 06 election, I may have to modify my perception of the voting populous and refer to them as "Late Bloomers".
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| corky52 | Sep 30 2005, 04:13 PM Post #14 |
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Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| 5thwheeler | Sep 30 2005, 04:31 PM Post #15 |
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Why you... if I had half your brains, we both would be half wits.
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History 101: When a popular myth is believed to be factual, teach the myth. Its not possible to underestimate the intelligence of the voting populous. Hummm, after seeing the results of the 06 election, I may have to modify my perception of the voting populous and refer to them as "Late Bloomers".
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