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Edict From The Pope; No gays allowed in Cath. Seminary
Topic Started: Sep 27 2005, 09:18 PM (1,914 Views)
Jelly Bean
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cmoehle
Sep 29 2005, 04:44 PM



But why praise someone who distorts the facts and ignores the conclusions of the studies he bases his opinion on? Why do you praise someone like that?



Chris I did not "praise", I acknowledged both articles which contained opinions and conclusions similar to the Catholic Church's stance. Which is to say, there is a VERY SERIOUS problem here that has been being ignored. One priest actually laid his Life on it.

I don't think for you, you are the one who called someone a homophobe label, not me.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Jelly "the second article is from the Washington Post, and quotes priests themselves up close to the matter at hand."

Perhaps you should read it again. The article, from the Washington Times btw, quotes almost exclusively a Father Haley. Singular, not plural. Major difference.

It paraphrases a Bishop who has leveled charges of sexual misconduct on Father Haley.

Get the facts straight. The value of an opinion depends on them.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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Jelly Bean
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cmoehle
Sep 29 2005, 04:50 PM
Jelly "roscoe here is the info you seek on the first article from the "eccentric" as chris called him"

Recall that I pointed out how he had distorted the facts and ignored the conclusions of the studies he based his opinion on. From that I concluded he was an eccentric.

I wonder why you are disputing everything else I said but that??

Chris, I do not agree that the writer, or the priests in the washington post article distorted. I do not agree with you.
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Jelly Bean
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cmoehle
Sep 29 2005, 04:58 PM
Jelly "the second article is from the Washington Post, and quotes priests themselves up close to the matter at hand."

Perhaps you should read it again. The article, from the Washington Times btw, quotes almost exclusively a Father Haley. Singular, not plural. Major difference.

It paraphrases a Bishop who has leveled charges of sexual misconduct on Father Haley.

Get the facts straight. The value of an opinion depends on them.

oops sorry times,
It mentioned the other priest who wrote the first book chris, didn't it?
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Jelly Bean
Sep 29 2005, 05:56 PM
cmoehle
Sep 29 2005, 04:44 PM



But why praise someone who distorts the facts and ignores the conclusions of the studies he bases his opinion on? Why do you praise someone like that?



Chris I did not "praise", I acknowledged both articles which contained opinions and conclusions similar to the Catholic Church's stance. Which is to say, there is a VERY SERIOUS problem here that has been being ignored. One priest actually laid his Life on it.

I don't think for you, you are the one who called someone a homophobe label, not me.

Semantic games. Posting and defending distorted views is more than mere acknowledgement.

The opinions in those papers are not close at all to what the Church is saying.

"I don't think for you, you are the one who called someone a homophobe label, not me."

Oh, but you most certainly did. You told me what my reason for calling him a homophobe: "because they just think differently".


Jelly, a strong personal request: When you quote what I say, quote the entire post, please. By cherry picking what I say you tend to distort it.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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Jelly Bean
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Here chris:
x 2 other priests, although, one is now an ex priests. as far as the guy having accusations against him, he says he has done nothing wrong except blow the whistle on what is really happening, and that they are attempting to silence him. From the article in question, two other priests besides the one we talked of:

Root of the problem
The Rev. Donald Cozzens, author of the 2000 book "The Changing Face of the Priesthood," estimates 50 percent of all Catholic priests are homosexual.
Psychotherapist Richard Sipe, a former Catholic priest who has written and spoken widely on the priesthood, says 15 percent of homosexual priests are sexually active.
If all homosexual clergy were to leave the U.S. Catholic Church now, the church would lose one-third of its bishops as well, added Mr. Sipe, whose new book on priestly sexual abuse dating back to the fourth century, comes out Nov. 15
.
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Jelly Bean
Sep 29 2005, 05:58 PM
cmoehle
Sep 29 2005, 04:50 PM
Jelly "roscoe here is the info you seek on the first article from the "eccentric" as chris called him"

Recall that I pointed out how he had distorted the facts and ignored the conclusions of the studies he based his opinion on. From that I concluded he was an eccentric.

I wonder why you are disputing everything else I said but that??

Chris, I do not agree that the writer, or the priests in the washington post article distorted. I do not agree with you.

What do you base that on? Did you read the studies the author referred to? Believe me, I do not make such accusations lightly, do not make them without doing the research. I ask, did you?
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Jelly Bean
Sep 29 2005, 05:59 PM
cmoehle
Sep 29 2005, 04:58 PM
Jelly "the second article is from the Washington Post, and quotes priests themselves up close to the matter at hand."

Perhaps you should read it again. The article, from the Washington Times btw, quotes almost exclusively a Father Haley. Singular, not plural. Major difference.

It paraphrases a Bishop who has leveled charges of sexual misconduct on Father Haley.

Get the facts straight. The value of an opinion depends on them.

oops sorry times,
It mentioned the other priest who wrote the first book chris, didn't it?

Quibbling, Jelly.

99% of the article is based on the opinion of a priest charge with sexual misconduct. Don't think I'd want to associate my opinions with that.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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cmoehle
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Chris - San Antonio TX
Jelly Bean
Sep 29 2005, 06:08 PM
Here chris:
x 2 other priests, although, one is now an ex priests. as far as the guy having accusations against him, he says he has done nothing wrong except blow the whistle on what is really happening, and that they are attempting to silence him. From the article in question, two other priests besides the one we talked of:

Root of the problem
The Rev. Donald Cozzens, author of the 2000 book "The Changing Face of the Priesthood," estimates 50 percent of all Catholic priests are homosexual.
Psychotherapist Richard Sipe, a former Catholic priest who has written and spoken widely on the priesthood, says 15 percent of homosexual priests are sexually active.
If all homosexual clergy were to leave the U.S. Catholic Church now, the church would lose one-third of its bishops as well, added Mr. Sipe, whose new book on priestly sexual abuse dating back to the fourth century, comes out Nov. 15
.

More quibbling, Jelly. Grasping for straws.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
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passinthru
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John - Gainesville, FL
What I find most disturbing about this is that it suggests that my nephew, simply because he is homosexual, whether "practicing" or not, is unfit to be a priest because of the way he views men and women, and further that because of his homosexuality, he will molest children. That somehow his ability to minister to others makes no difference, and that he is inately immoral, in spite of his courage to face his sexuality, accept it, and move forward with his life of service in the name of Jesus.
Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money...
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corky52
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Born irredeemable? So much for the bother of try to do good and right things, it's now all a matter of who and how you were born.
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Jelly Bean
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cmoehle
Sep 29 2005, 05:11 PM
Jelly Bean
Sep 29 2005, 05:59 PM
cmoehle
Sep 29 2005, 04:58 PM
Jelly "the second article is from the Washington Post, and quotes priests themselves up close to the matter at hand."

Perhaps you should read it again. The article, from the Washington Times btw, quotes almost exclusively a Father Haley. Singular, not plural. Major difference.

It paraphrases a Bishop who has leveled charges of sexual misconduct on Father Haley.

Get the facts straight. The value of an opinion depends on them.

oops sorry times,
It mentioned the other priest who wrote the first book chris, didn't it?

Quibbling, Jelly.

99% of the article is based on the opinion of a priest charge with sexual misconduct. Don't think I'd want to associate my opinions with that.

He says he has done nothing wrong.
The way the church covered up the molestations in the first place, I would almost be more apt to believe the priest is being set up to be silenced....that is basically what he is alluding to, he is saying they are trying to keep him from speaking.
On the other hand, even if he has done something wrong himself, can he not speak to the wrongs of the church? His testimony may certainly be MORE true in a first hand sort of way. I don't know, but I wouldn't just through his testimony out because he has an accusation against him. In light of what has happened, and what OTHERS are also saying, I will hear him out.
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Jelly Bean
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cmoehle
Sep 29 2005, 05:11 PM
Jelly Bean
Sep 29 2005, 06:08 PM
Here chris:
x 2 other priests, although, one is now an ex priests. as far as the guy having accusations against him, he says he has done nothing wrong except blow the whistle on what is really happening, and that they are attempting to silence him. From the article in question, two other priests besides the one we talked of:

Root of the problem
    The Rev. Donald Cozzens, author of the 2000 book "The Changing Face of the Priesthood," estimates 50 percent of all Catholic priests are homosexual.
    Psychotherapist Richard Sipe, a former Catholic priest who has written and spoken widely on the priesthood, says 15 percent of homosexual priests are sexually active.
    If all homosexual clergy were to leave the U.S. Catholic Church now, the church would lose one-third of its bishops as well, added Mr. Sipe, whose new book on priestly sexual abuse dating back to the fourth century, comes out Nov. 15
.

More quibbling, Jelly. Grasping for straws.

A book doesn't sound like a straw.
I think I will try to get it.
I certainly will try and get the other one by the other priest that is written already.
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Jelly Bean
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cmoehle
Sep 29 2005, 05:08 PM
Jelly Bean
Sep 29 2005, 05:58 PM
cmoehle
Sep 29 2005, 04:50 PM
Jelly "roscoe here is the info you seek on the first article from the "eccentric" as chris called him"

Recall that I pointed out how he had distorted the facts and ignored the conclusions of the studies he based his opinion on. From that I concluded he was an eccentric.

I wonder why you are disputing everything else I said but that??

Chris, I do not agree that the writer, or the priests in the washington post article distorted. I do not agree with you.

What do you base that on? Did you read the studies the author referred to? Believe me, I do not make such accusations lightly, do not make them without doing the research. I ask, did you?

huh? You lost me. You said it was distorted, I just asked how?
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PRT
Member
Are we still on Fr. Haley? He never got a parish and he complained. Apparently he said the bishops in one diocese favored the homosexual priests. After he squealed on a pastor who got a parishioner pregnant - guess he wasn't a homosexual. This was all in the article. (Pastor and parishioner now married and he's working as an administrator in another parish.)

This is all he said, she said. Even the words "estimates," "says" smack of no proof.

Homosexuals are people. Leave them alone and let them do their work.

Nobody's perfect.
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