|
Edict From The Pope; No gays allowed in Cath. Seminary
|
|
Topic Started: Sep 27 2005, 09:18 PM (1,916 Views)
|
|
passinthru
|
Sep 28 2005, 11:40 AM
Post #16
|
|
John - Gainesville, FL
- Posts:
- 6,166
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #6
- Joined:
- June 6, 2004
|
- 5thwheeler
- Sep 28 2005, 11:22 AM
Do they ask prospective applicants if they are, or ever were Pedophiles?
A more important question in my opinion as it is not gender specific as to the victim.
|
|
Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money...
|
| |
|
passinthru
|
Sep 28 2005, 02:27 PM
Post #17
|
|
John - Gainesville, FL
- Posts:
- 6,166
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #6
- Joined:
- June 6, 2004
|
I have not seen the edict that is proposed, but heard from my dear nephew who is currently a friar and is also currently in the seminary to become a priest. He is troubled by the edict. He wrote - Quote:
-
In (the edict) the new pope declares that all homosexuals are to leave the seminaries because they are "intrinsically disordered". This is not a statement about attractions, or actions, but about the actual essence of the person being disordered. I find this deeply troubling. ... I also read this as a statement that I have no place in the seminary. I have been talking about all of this with my local superior who understands my feelings and thought. I have even mentioned that as much as I love this Order and the work we are doing, it is still part of a larger Church, that if it should publish this document, is an entity that I have a fundamental problem with, thus I don't know how I could remain in the order, or the Church.
He is asking me for guidance in this matter. I have replied to him and given him my support. I want you all to know that this is not some intellectual exercise to me, and I take it seriously. As you can see, it affects someone that I dearly love, and affects his chosen career to serve the Lord with his life as a friar and all that entails.
|
|
Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money...
|
| |
|
cmoehle
|
Sep 28 2005, 04:11 PM
Post #18
|
|
Chris - San Antonio TX
- Posts:
- 36,959
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #1
- Joined:
- June 6, 2004
|
He sounds like a bright and caring young man, John. Give him all the support you can.
Intrinsically implies the Chrurch sees it not as a lifestyle choice.
But your nephew's words don't seem to indicate that's his concern.
|
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater
|
| |
|
tomdrobin
|
Sep 28 2005, 08:32 PM
Post #19
|
|
Member
- Posts:
- 2,531
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #27
- Joined:
- July 2, 2004
|
I think this edict is the result of the church having to pay big$$$ in lawsuit settlements because of the abuses of the clergy towards mostly pubescient males (gay abuse), even though the victims per statuates would be classified as children (under 16). So, I think the church (and rightly so) doesn't consider this a pedophelia problem, but one of homosexual priests using their position and enfluence to prey on adolescents.
What they have failed to address is the issue of consensual sexual activity between adult clergy (both homo and hetro). I've read this is as high a 50%, in an organization that prescribes to celebacy. IMO they should drop the unrealistic celabacy requirement for priests and nuns. But, it's not my church.
|
|
|
| |
|
Jelly Bean
|
Sep 28 2005, 08:40 PM
Post #20
|
|
Member
- Posts:
- 2,205
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #183
- Joined:
- July 12, 2005
|
- Colo_Crawdad
- Sep 28 2005, 06:36 AM
Jelly seemed to support the action by her comment of "about time." Hopefully she can explain those two questions.
colo, for years on years...it has been rumored about catholic gay priests molesting, long before any law suits or news media breaks
|
|
|
| |
|
PRT
|
Sep 28 2005, 09:07 PM
Post #21
|
|
Member
- Posts:
- 7,737
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #10
- Joined:
- June 21, 2004
|
- Jelly Bean
- Sep 28 2005, 10:40 PM
colo, for years on years...it has been rumored about catholic gay priests molesting, long before any law suits or news media breaks
Well, I'm not about to go there, but I will go here.
A week ago Sunday (9/18) we went to Mass in Maryland with our daughter who had nine day old twins in NICU. Mass was extended a bit since a young curate came in to speak and really hold the congregation in church until the flyers on the cars could all be removed.
Apparently a christian group has been harassing this parish (Immaculate Heart of Mary, Loch Raven Road) with similar tactics since they feel they worship idols and actually abused the priest when he went out and asked them to stop placing these flyers on private property. The flyers described the awful idol abuse practiced by the Catholics within. And apparently other evils - our car had no flyer when we got there so I didn't see one.
That's not a rumor. I was there.
I do not worship idols. That's the truth.
|
|
|
| |
|
Jelly Bean
|
Sep 28 2005, 10:15 PM
Post #22
|
|
Member
- Posts:
- 2,205
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #183
- Joined:
- July 12, 2005
|
- PRT
- Sep 28 2005, 09:07 PM
Well, I'm not about to go there, but I will go here.
Apparently a christian group has been harassing this parish (Immaculate Heart of Mary, Loch Raven Road) with similar tactics since they feel they worship idols and actually abused the priest when he went out and asked them to stop placing these flyers on private property. The flyers described the awful idol abuse practiced by the Catholics within. And apparently other evils - our car had no flyer when we got there so I didn't see one.
That's not a rumor. I was there.
Maybe I am misunderstanding you: Are you equating the rumor of the catholic gay priests the same as the flyer incident? The rumor about the gay priests came out of the Catholic Church, not out of Church's some how protesting against them.
|
|
|
| |
|
Fr. Mike
|
Sep 29 2005, 12:20 AM
Post #23
|
|
Member
- Posts:
- 550
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #82
- Joined:
- July 29, 2004
|
Maybe I can shed some light on this issue involving the purging of seminaries of homosexuals. Let me put my collar on here for a moment.
After much study and research it has been determined that the pressures and temptations are too great for men who are homosexuals to live, work side by side and share dorms with other men. The vow of celebacy requires total intent to refrain from all sexual activity.
The comparisom was made too of the difficulty a hetrosexual man would have remaining celebate if he was to be housed, work side by side with, and be constantly around women.
It was also communicated that a further reason for taking this step was the large numbers of boys who had been victims of homosexual priests.
I first saw the rough draft of this early last winter and it was included in the material being used to start up the new religious in Dallas.
The matter of of a homosexual being any less capable of being celibate than a hetrosexual was not the issue.--the main concern was the temptation that placed such enormous pressure on these young seminarians.
Now to think that hetrosexual priests do not feel temptations that challenge their chastity would be absurd. A priest does not discontinue being a male and leave his biological urges at the seminary doorstep.
Remember too--one does not enter a seminary and pop out the other door in a couple years a priest. Nor does a man enter a religious and pop out with his vocation in a couple years. This is a long formation and develpment process that involves men being around a mostly male environment for many many years.
Of course chastity is required of all human beings until marriage and one could reason then--well why are these guys experiencing so much difficulty remaining chaste after entering the seminary. Well--the chastity/celebacy ideal in practice is a process of deepening ones faith, connection and closeness to the Savior and gaining complete control over the sexual energy and its nature. This energy is then directed towards service and not expressed in a sexual manner.
Every human being is expected to deepen themselves in church doctrine and biblical scripture as a tool for dealing with temptations that arise to sin. We use our faith to keep our conscience pure. Priests and laypeople alike are all subject to the temptations to sin. A priest is a teacher and servant of the Lord Jesus Christ and he is still very much a man.
One final thought.
One other member here [PRT] mentioned the flyer attack at his parish. These attacks and jabs at the Mother Chrurch have been around a long time. You don't have to defend your faith against these attackers. You called the group Christians. A better label would be heretics. PRT, I counsel you to remain steadfast and unwielding to these evildoers. Turn what fear and anquish you feel toward deepening yourself in scripture. Pray for those lost souls who would lash out at our Savior and his church.
Chris,
I apologize to you and the members for bringing religion and my faith into your forum. I promised myself that I would temper my approach to all religious subjects outside my own forum. Another member PM'd me to add input on this topic more than I had already done, and it is at that request that I added the above comments.
|
A humble servant of the Lord Jesus Christ
Don't forget to say your prayers! The unborn have rights too.
|
| |
|
Jelly Bean
|
Sep 29 2005, 01:03 AM
Post #24
|
|
Member
- Posts:
- 2,205
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #183
- Joined:
- July 12, 2005
|
- spacebeing
- Sep 29 2005, 12:20 AM
Chris,
I apologize to you and the members for bringing religion and my faith into your forum. I promised myself that I would temper my approach to all religious subjects outside my own forum. Another member PM'd me to add input on this topic more than I had already done, and it is at that request that I added the above comments.
space, you bring appreciated expert knowledge, no apology necessary here, you have wonderful stuff to share, and you strive to do it in a nice way.
|
|
|
| |
|
pentax
|
Sep 29 2005, 01:10 AM
Post #25
|
|
Kamloops - BC Interior
- Posts:
- 6,649
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #16
- Joined:
- June 21, 2004
|
GOOD GRIEF! Are there really some here who make the connection between Priest molesting boys, and the Gay population in General???
Most (like 99.whatever %) of the Gay community are appalled by these things! Priests that do that stuff are not fussy, and have far easier access to boys - with Choir, Alter-Service and many other activities. Not to mention that, until a few years ago, most parents would never have DREAMED of such things from their trusted Priest....
Someone needs to unscrew the lid on their skull, and let some fresh air in....
|
 (thumbnail)

"Kirk to Enterprise - Very funny, Scotty.... now beam down my clothes!"
|
| |
|
Jelly Bean
|
Sep 29 2005, 02:12 AM
Post #26
|
|
Member
- Posts:
- 2,205
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #183
- Joined:
- July 12, 2005
|
- pentax
- Sep 29 2005, 01:10 AM
GOOD GRIEF! Are there really some here who make the connection between Priest molesting boys, and the Gay population in General???
mur...studies done: here is an article I googled: http://www.jefflindsay.com/snippets/gay-priests.shtml
- Quote:
-
Study of Catholic Priests and Child Abuse: The Boy Scouts Were Right about the Risks of Homosexual Youth Leaders Feb. 28, 2004: With the skill and determination of a modern-day Houdini, the mainstream media has been struggling to escape what appears to be an inescapable conclusion from the national scandal of sexual abuse among Catholic priests. Sadly, those chains just won't come off, but with enough misdirection, maybe we won't notice they are there. Maybe we'll overlook the inescapable conclusion that the Boy Scouts of America were right. They have been vindicated in their cautious policies that make it difficult for gay men to serve as respected leaders of young boys and young men. Based on what we now know about the scandal with priests, the concern that some homosexual men might seek access to young victims has been entirely borne out with tragic experience. My state of Wisconsin and many other states have been rocked by the scandal of child molestation among Catholic priests. The scandal, however, is far larger than most people have imagined or could have imagined. We've been told that the molesting priests represent a few scattered pedophiles--that's the preferred term, one that conjures up an image of rare sickos with no particular relationship to the gay community, mentally ill creatures going for tiny little kids. Some journalists have even claimed that a majority of the victims were girls, and that homosexuality was not an issue in the scandal. When was the last time a major media outlet dared to say that the molesters were homosexual men or that the victims were typically teenage boys? And how often has the press dared to say that large numbers of homosexual men have naturally been drawn to the Catholic clergy, where they can use their positions of authority to gain sexual access to youths?
Two new reports may help the world see the reality behind the media-created illusion. The reports were commissioned by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, who asked the National Review Board, a panel of Catholic lay people, to investigate the abuse crisis. The National Review Board study includes information on molestation claims from 1950 to 2002. There is also a companion study about the nature of the problem, conducted by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York. Recent news stories on the topic are available at AP.org, Reuters, Wavy.com, the Baltimore Sun, the San Antonio Express-News, and other news outlets. For details on the studies, see the information at the Website for the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
While it is well known that sexual molestation is typically highly underreported, the numbers are still shockingly large. Nearly 4% of all priests have been accused of sexual molestation. About 44% of the accused priests have been accused by more than one person. And contrary to the insinuations of the media, the victims have not been little kids, but are typically teenage boys, as shown in the figure to the right from the Associated Press (The Post-Crescent, Feb. 28, 2004, p. A-4). In fact, only 5.8% of victims were under age 7; 16% percent were between ages 8-10; and over 78% were ages 11-17. Of course, there were men ages 18 and older who were also exploited, but that is too old for child molestation and beyond the scope of these studies.
Recent trials of some of these priests have shown that they used their position of trust and influence as adult leaders to exploit their access to boys, particularly teenagers. What can we say about males that sexually abuse young men? Why is the word "homosexual" so rarely heard in media discussions of this crisis? Fortunately, a few voices have dared to say the "h" word. One is Julia Duin of the Washington Times in her article, "Gay Priests Cited in Abuse of Boys," Feb. 28, 2004 (available online):
Eighty-one percent of sex crimes committed against children by Roman Catholic priests during the past 52 years were homosexual men preying on boys, according to a comprehensive study released yesterday on the church's sex abuse crisis. (emphasis mine) Many studies show that homosexuals represent only about 1 to 3% of the population, but if we assume it is 10%, as the gay community would have us believe, and if we assume that gay men are just as likely as heterosexuals to be child molesters, then we might expect about 10% of the victims to be boys. But 81% of the victims are boys, and not just small children, but mostly teenagers. There is no longer any doubt that the problem of sexual abuse among priests has been predominately a problem of homosexual men who have used their positions of authority to gain access to boys and young men. The body of Catholic clergy has become a hot bed for that minority of homosexual men who are also child molesters.
All this leads to an inescapable conclusion: the Boy Scouts are right. Not only should they have a right to choose who the role models are in their private organization, but they should have a right to protect young boys and young men from the type of abuse that has devastated so many Catholic families. Though most homosexuals are not child molesters, those who are may naturally seek to enter into organizations like the Boy Scouts of America or the clergy, where access to potential victims is easier. It's a reality that must be faced. As painful as it is to gay men and women who would never hurt a child, those who share their orientation but not their respect for the young are a danger that must be faced.
Part of the Houdini-like efforts in the media involve the claim that the problem of child molestation not a homosexual problem, and that homosexuals are no more likely to pose a risk than anybody else. That's another assertion that doesn't necessarily fit reality. Again, most homosexuals are not molesters, no question! And many molesters are heterosexual. But if you look at those who are convicted for child molestation, the number of men who abuse boys relative to those who abuse girls is far too high if homosexuality did not increase the likelihood of child molestation. In fact, there are several other types of evidence that point to a much higher that homosexual men will be child molesters. See "Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse" by Timothy J. Dailey, Ph.D., "Homosexuality and Pedophilia," and "How Pedophiles Have Targeted the Boy Scouts of America."
Most child molestation is done by men, and I'm a man. That puts me in the high risk group. I should not be upset if an organization like the Girl Scouts decides to exclude men from leadership roles because I am in a higher risk group. I can understand that. And if parents don't want to hire my boys as babysitters because of the higher risk, I consider that wise, and hope my own boys won't take it personally. We men are more likely to be problems, let's face it--but that doesn't make us all guilty or inherently vile. When it comes to molestation of boys, homosexual men are a much greater problem than heterosexual men. Even if I had homosexual leanings, I hope I would have the understanding to acknowledge that and understand why a private organization might exclude me in order to reduce risks to young boys. The Catholic Church would be wise to exercise great caution regarding priests who consider themselves homosexual. And United Way and others who have opposed the Boy Scouts' policies ought to stop their self-deception and face reality: the Boy Scouts were right.
Jeff Lindsay, Feb. 28, 2004
|
|
|
| |
|
Jelly Bean
|
Sep 29 2005, 02:46 AM
Post #27
|
|
Member
- Posts:
- 2,205
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #183
- Joined:
- July 12, 2005
|
silenced priest warns of gay crisis:
http://washingtontimes.com/national/200411...24042-2061r.htm
- Quote:
-
Silenced priest warns of gay crisis By Julia Duin THE WASHINGTON TIMES Starting today, 290 of the nation's Catholic bishops will meet at the Capitol Hyatt for their yearly business meeting and to tie up loose ends on the massive sexual-abuse crisis that has shaken the U.S. Catholic Church to its core in the past two years. Although it's been less than a year since the church revealed that there were 10,667 cases of abuse committed by 4,392 priests in a 50-year period, the message at the meeting will be that the crisis is under control. But it's far from over, says a local Catholic priest who says the true source of the crisis is a priesthood that is "honeycombed" with homosexual clerics, especially in the Diocese of Arlington. However, attempts by the Rev. James Haley, 48, to persuade his bishop of the problem have backfired. After hearing from the priest about numerous instances of homosexual activity among diocesan clergy, Arlington Bishop Paul Loverde ordered the priest silenced Oct. 23, 2001. This "precept of silence" — usually only employed during church trial proceedings — is rarely used to silence a whistleblower. Thus, in the past three years, Father Haley's case, which also involves accusations of sexual misconduct against him, has become a cause celebre among many Catholics in the Diocese of Arlington. It's also attracted the attention of the Vatican, which summoned him to appear before an ecclesiastical court in March. Church officials held two more hearings on the matter this summer and last week scheduled a fourth hearing in conjunction with the bishops' meeting. Less than 24 hours later, after the priest, now living several states away, had bought nonrefundable plane tickets to Washington, the meeting was canceled suddenly. Father Haley says his only crime is his insistence that homosexual priests, not solely pedophiles, are at the root of the sexual-abuse crisis. The Catholic priesthood is demoralized, he says, by groups of homosexual clerics who control who gets admitted to seminary, which men get nominated for bishop and which priests get the plum parishes. Based on his 17 years in the priesthood, he estimates that 60 percent of the Diocese of Arlington's 127 diocesan priests are homosexuals, which is high compared with national estimates of 30 percent to 50 percent from other authorities on the priesthood. As his prospects of returning to life as a parish priest dwindle, he has amassed reams of tapes, videos, photographs, e-mail messages and 1,200 pages of documents for a tell-all book on homosexuality and the priesthood. "I am astounded the bishops will protect these guys, promote them, even make them bishops," he says. "This is a huge moral issue, and if the bishops aren't clear on this, the pope needs to rule on it. "People will say there's nothing wrong with homosexual priests as long as they are celibate. Well, that is a totally naive statement and totally wrong." Backlash Father Haley, who is living on a $1,700 a month stipend from the Arlington Diocese and relies on his motorcycle for transport, says his troubles began after several confrontations with his bishop over the priest's charges that homosexuals were indulged by the diocese. Bishop Loverde, in turn, has leveled several charges at the priest, ranging from sexual misconduct to talking with the press. He has turned the case over to the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, overseen by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. The cardinal asked Bishop Thomas G. Doran of Rockford, Ill., to preside at an ecclesiastical court, which has met in three closed sessions this year. Once the case is wrapped up, it will be forwarded to the Vatican for judgment. Bishop Doran was "supportive," Father Haley says, but he told the priest, "We cannot discuss the homosexual issue because there are people above us who don't think it's a problem." "He also explained to me: Even if I was to win this hearing, Loverde would appeal this to another [Vatican] congregation. If I lose, I cannot appeal it, but if I win, he can appeal. So three to four years might pass." Although Bishop Doran's office did not respond to several requests for comment, the Rev. Arthur Espelage, executive coordinator of the Canon Law Society, an Alexandria-based group of 1,500 specialists in church law and court procedures, says Bishop Doran's intervention means that the Vatican is concerned. "This is a lot more serious than Bishop Loverde being ticked off at Haley," he says. But Stephen Brady of the watchdog group Roman Catholic Faithful says Father Haley "made Loverde look bad, so they will make him pay a price by dragging this case out as long as they want." "The bishops defend pedophile priests by saying canon law forbids them from removing them without just cause," he says. "But if someone like Father Haley embarrasses a bishop, the church ignores canon law and throws him out." War of words When questioned by The Washington Times on Sept. 8, Bishop Loverde refused to discuss the case and Father Haley's accusations. "The canonical process is undergoing," he said, "and I cannot comment on it." However, he has resurrected some 1995 sexual-misconduct charges against Father Haley made when the Most Rev. John R. Keating was bishop of the diocese. The sexual-misconduct charge, Father Haley says, was from a 1994 conversation with a female friend, who, while describing the effects of her breast cancer, placed the priest's hand on where the surgery had taken place. Although the woman and her attorney both refused comment when contacted by The Washington Times, the priest says, "There was no sexual misconduct." "I've never had sex in my entire life," he says. Bishop Keating found Father Haley not guilty of impropriety and assigned him a post as assistant pastor at All Saints Catholic Church in Manassas, the largest church in the Washington area with 20,000 members. He was planning to promote the priest into a church pastorship in Sterling, when he died suddenly in Rome in 1998, says the Rev. James R. Gould, former vocations director for the diocese. Father Haley is "a good man and a good priest," Father Gould said. "I am very concerned for him. It is still my hope to have him back in the priesthood, and he is always welcome with me." Father Haley never got his promotion. According to a 233-page deposition filed July 24, 2002, in Arlington County Circuit Court, the priest became aware of an affair between a married parishioner, Nancy Lambert, and the Rev. James Verrecchia, then pastor of All Saints and Father Haley's boss. Mrs. Lambert became pregnant with Father Verrecchia's child, divorced her husband, then married the priest in the spring of 2000. Mr. Verrecchia is now parish administrator at Holy Innocents Episcopal Church in Atlanta. Jim Lambert, the divorced husband of Nancy Lambert, then filed a $5 million suit against the diocese on the grounds that Bishop Loverde knew of the affair months before the priest was ordered to stop seeing Mrs. Lambert. The person who informed the bishop about the affair in June 1999 was Father Haley. In the 2002 deposition, which Roman Catholic Faithful has posted at www.rcf.org, Father Haley also revealed sexually graphic details about other priests in the diocese. "The bishop said there is nothing wrong with these guys," he recalled. "I said, 'You haven't lived with them.' " The Arlington Diocese is one of a few in the country that refuses — at least on paper — to sponsor homosexual applicants for seminary. Most dioceses admit such applicants with a variety of sexual histories, although the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) will reconsider this policy at its June meeting in Chicago. Father Haley contends that Bishop Loverde is loath to enforce diocesan policy, which was installed by his predecessor, Bishop Keating. "I was never asked by my bishop if I was gay," Father Haley said. Bishop Loverde "told me he had no right to ask that question, but I said you have a right to ask that question if you are putting men together [in parish rectories] who are sexually attracted to each other." Root of the problem The Rev. Donald Cozzens, author of the 2000 book "The Changing Face of the Priesthood," estimates 50 percent of all Catholic priests are homosexual. Psychotherapist Richard Sipe, a former Catholic priest who has written and spoken widely on the priesthood, says 15 percent of homosexual priests are sexually active. If all homosexual clergy were to leave the U.S. Catholic Church now, the church would lose one-third of its bishops as well, added Mr. Sipe, whose new book on priestly sexual abuse dating back to the fourth century, comes out Nov. 15. Father Haley says homosexuality is at the root of the huge priestly sex-abuse crisis in which 81 percent of the cases involved victims who were males younger than 18, according to a USCCB investigation. "Isn't the huge amounts of AIDS among the clergy a symptom of the problem?" he asked, citing a 2000 Kansas City Star estimate of the rate of AIDS deaths among priests that is at least four times that of the general population. "These are guys who are supposed to be celibate, virtually chaste and modest. "But I've seen priests put on cologne, dress up and go on dates with guys." He wonders whether Pope John Paul II understands this. "I would ask him, 'Your Holiness, is it proper to hire these men or not?' " Father Haley said. "You have to question whether or not these guys even have the rudiments of the faith." The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuality is an "intrinsically disordered" condition and, on Oct. 25, released a document saying such behavior "is not consistent with moral law." But it has no formal prohibition against homosexual priests. A Feb. 2, 1961, Vatican directive does say that "advancement to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty." In March 2002, as the clergy sex-abuse scandal in Boston assumed national proportions, Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls told the New York Times that, "People with these inclinations just cannot be ordained." He added, "That does not imply a final judgment on people with homosexuality ... but you just cannot be in this field." That same year, Pope John Paul II told Brazilian bishops to be extremely careful when screening men for the priesthood so as to avoid "deviations in their affections." "It is an ongoing struggle to make sure the Catholic priesthood is not dominated by homosexual men," Bishop Wilton Gregory, president of the USCCB, told the Associated Press. Father Haley says the problem goes straight to the top. "Loverde had said to me there's nothing wrong [with homosexuality] as long as you're celibate," he said. "So I said there would be nothing wrong with me living with nuns the rest of my life as long as I am celibate. He just looked at me." Support from home Northern Virginia Catholics have demonstrated outside Bishop Loverde's chancery, sent Father Haley 600 letters of support, contributed money to help defer his legal costs and set up a supportive Web site: www.truthinarlington.com. "I know Father Haley to be a dedicated, holy priest," said a former member of St. Mark Catholic Church in Vienna, Va., where the priest served from 1987 to 1991. "He impressed me with his reverence during Mass and excellent homilies, which have been always true to the Gospel. He was well-liked and well-respected in our parish," she said in an interview on the condition of anonymity. She attributed his current troubles to "his zeal for the church," adding, "He wants it pure and holy." Michael Gray, a parishioner at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Fredericksburg, Father Haley's last parish, said he was "a very good priest." "He's a brilliant speaker. He's the best. There wasn't anything wrong with him. He just told the truth. He just stood up, and look where it's gotten him. He's been sent to limbo." Charles Molineaux, a Catholic lawyer from McLean, buttonholed Bishop Loverde about Father Haley when he spotted the prelate at a funeral this spring. "Loverde told me I needed to have patience," he said. "I said, 'Well, you know, bishop, justice delayed is justice denied.' " "At that point, he blew his stack. He said I was being judgmental. I said, 'Well, I am a lawyer, and we make judgment calls, and you are being unjust.' " Many local Catholics were shocked to read about two priests exposed in the deposition Father Haley gave in the Lambert divorce lawsuit, which the diocese unsuccessfully tried to seal. The Rev. William J. Erbacher of St. Lawrence Catholic Church in Franconia resigned soon after the deposition revealed that he embezzled church funds and collected homosexual pornography featuring young boys. The diocese has never revealed the results of two audits of Father Erbacher, one conducted by the diocese and the other by the Internal Revenue Service. St. Stephen the Martyr Church in Middleburg, Va., takes phone messages and mail for him. The Rev. Daniel Hamilton, pastor of St. Mary's Church, resigned after the deposition claimed he kept a collection of sadomasochistic and homosexual pornography in his rectory bedroom. After a psychiatric evaluation for what the bishop termed his "improper activity," he went to live at St. Francis de Sales Church in Kilmarnock, Va. The diocese lists both men as on leaves of absence. Father Haley said he provided Bishop Loverde incriminating material about six other priests in the diocese, plus additional names culled from e-mails in Father Erbacher's files. "There were homosexual jokes being sent not only to men around the diocese, but to priests around the country," he said. Which is why, Father Haley said, he was summoned to the diocesan chancery on that October afternoon in 2001, given four hours to vacate his rectory and ordered by the bishop to remain silent. The bishop's only public response to Father Haley's charges came a year later — in Sept. 14, 2002, and Dec. 3, 2002, letters defending his actions after the story hit the newspapers and TV. "I want every parishioner in this diocese to know that allegations by some in the media stating that I have ignored priestly misconduct are absolutely false," he wrote. "While Father Haley was always free to 'go over my head' and bring his accusations and criticisms to other ecclesiastical authorities, he chose instead to resort to the media." Several of Father Haley's advocates suggest that Bishop Loverde got advice on priestly silencing from Altoona-Johnstown, Pa., Bishop Joseph Adamec. Bishop Adamec's diocesan newspaper, the Catholic Register, ran a front-page photo of the two bishops on May 5, 2003, and informed readers that Bishop Loverde had been invited to speak in the diocese. On Sept. 9, 1999, Bishop Adamec forbade a local priest, the Rev. Philip Saylor, from talking about the diocese's track record on sexual-abuse cases. Father Saylor was given a canonical "precept of silence," the same as was given to Father Haley, and threatened with excommunication if he disobeyed. The bishop posted the order on his Web site, www.diocesealtjtn.org/news, and wrote a March 17, 2003, letter to the Wall Street Journal defending his decision. The bishop was under some pressure, because the Tribune-Democrat in Johnstown had published in June 2002 an investigation saying the diocese had allowed at least 10 pedophile priests to continue working while abusing hundreds of boys. "There's a point where you have to put your faith on the line," Father Haley said. "You have to put your life at risk. I am willing to die for this. I am willing to stand up for the truth. Someday, this will all come out. The abuse scandal will seem small compared to this."
|
|
|
| |
|
passinthru
|
Sep 29 2005, 03:39 AM
Post #28
|
|
John - Gainesville, FL
- Posts:
- 6,166
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #6
- Joined:
- June 6, 2004
|
What is at issue here for my nephew is a edict that does accept homosexuality as not being a choice, but implies that the fact that someone is homosexual makes them "unfit" for service to Christ. After seven years living as a Friar and taking his final vows and deciding to also become a priest while serving the Lord, his chosen Church is shuffling him out the door as incapable of service. This is what is weighing so heavily upon him. While in the friary he has run inner city soup kitchens, taught classes at inner city schools, worked with the aids infected poor in Puerto Rico, and managed to graduate summa cum laude with a degree in philosophy and religion from a catholic college. He has become either conversant or fluent in Spanish, German, Russian and Arabic. While he has already taken a vow of chastity, he also cannot lie and say he is not homosexual, so he is currently waiting to see if the Church he has chosen will evict him from his chosen career path for simply being born homosexual.
|
|
Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money...
|
| |
|
cmoehle
|
Sep 29 2005, 04:33 AM
Post #29
|
|
Chris - San Antonio TX
- Posts:
- 36,959
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #1
- Joined:
- June 6, 2004
|
Jelly, you really ought to check out your sources before you post it. The first comes from a Web site called Cracked Planet and is written by an excentric. He is playing fast and furious with statistics and the conclusion he draws is not that of the studies he cites in support. He discredits himself with his open bigotry. The second is based on the opinions of another homophobic crackpot. I guess people believe what they want to believe.
It is interesting that you posted those after praising Mike for his expert knowledge when what he says exhibits a completely different attitude.
I also agree with Mike's assessment of so-called Christians who would attack other Christians. Well, actually I'd go further, but will leave that to your imagination.
The point being something like stones and glass houses. Pedophilia is not unique to Catholics but exists in each Christian denomination.
|
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater
|
| |
|
roscoe
|
Sep 29 2005, 07:45 AM
Post #30
|
|
Member
- Posts:
- 1,142
- Group:
- Members
- Member
- #53
- Joined:
- July 17, 2004
|
I went to cracked planet.com and it's a sor tof porno swinger type site. Whats up with that.
Is that the one with the info on bad priests ?
|
|
|
| |