Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Campfire Soapbox. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
A Ten Minute Read That May Enlighten You; Only 3 members will read this,a shame.
Topic Started: Feb 17 2005, 02:55 PM (349 Views)
abradf2519
Member
Chris, you said:
Quote:
 
We have a republican not democratic form of government


Democracy means "people rule". The people do indeed rule here in the US. Our form of democracy is a Republic.

Your list contains conficts that would not be considered wars by anyone. (I did use the term "war")
Alan
Milan, New York, USA
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
Democracy include socialism where indeed the majority rules.

Here, people rule within constitutional limits and protections, by definition a republic.


War as you define for the convience of your argument? Then those between tribes must be considered conflicts and not wars. Wars as you define are only between nations.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
abradf2519
Member
Chris:
You said: "War as you define for the convience of your argument? Then those between tribes must be considered conflicts and not wars. Wars as you define are only between nations. "

I knew you would say that! I should have answered it in my previous post!

Battles between tribes is called "Tribal warfare" because it affects the whole comunity. National warfare also affects the entire country.

Conficts only affect a few people in a tribe or in a nation.
Alan
Milan, New York, USA
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
Dictionary.com: "A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties."

Meaning cannot be individual, there'd be no communication.

Let's agree on your new definition: "Conficts only affect a few people...." How many of the wars I listed affected only a few? Any? Police making a drug bust might fit conflict.

Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MrsS
Member Avatar
Hessia/Germany
Patriotism has a wide spectrum...and if you feed it well enough, sooner or later you
get the impression that your country is more valuable than other countries are.

What are we in first place? Part of one species called human beeings or citizens
of a particular country?


Anneliese
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
abradf2519
Member
MrsS
Feb 18 2005, 12:39 PM
Patriotism has a wide spectrum...and if you feed it well enough, sooner or later you
get the impression that your country is more valuable than other countries are.

What are we in first place? Part of one species called human beeings or citizens
of a particular country?

I believe you are talking about "jingoism" (extreme chauvinism or nationalism marked especially by a belligerent foreign policy - http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary)

Patriotism (love for or devotion to one's country) is not going to cause a war, but will inspire support for a war of protection. I believe America's "war on terror" is a war of protection.

There is nothing wrong with Patriotism, but Jingosim should be avoided.
Alan
Milan, New York, USA
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MrsS
Member Avatar
Hessia/Germany
Can we always draw the line?


Anneliese
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
abradf2519
Member
cmoehle
Feb 18 2005, 12:30 PM
Dictionary.com: "A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties."

Meaning cannot be individual, there'd be no communication.

Let's agree on your new definition: "Conficts only affect a few people...." How many of the wars I listed affected only a few? Any? Police making a drug bust might fit conflict.

Maybe the line between confict and war is grey, meaning the line can be drawn where the speaker wants, making the line where it is most convienent to his argument.

Your line or my line, you still have to admit that warfare affects the common person much more in a tribal situation.
Alan
Milan, New York, USA
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
Don't think so. War today between nations affect so many more people.

Listen, I think your basic argument is correct, that man has always been a warring animal. All animals fight over territory. Just don't buy the conclusion that things have changed that much and are getting better instead of worse.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MrsS
Member Avatar
Hessia/Germany
Europe has a long, long history of warfare. Wars were fought for any reason
you can think of, among it was patriotism and racism...even God was often involved...
and in the outcome there always the loss of many lives was to deplore.

Of course the attackers wrapped their intentions into high and just moral standards...
and the common people joyfully followed.
That method still seems to work...

BTW, this history may help you to understand Europe`s dislike of wars. :nono:


Anneliese
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
Jingoism, Nationalism, Populism

"Jingoism is a more pejorative term for a nationalism that emphasizes the superiority of one nation over another."

"Some varieties of populism may incorporate nationalism, jingoisms, and occasionally racism, while other varieties of populism do not."


(From Wikipedia.)
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MrsS
Member Avatar
Hessia/Germany
Do we need these -isms?


Anneliese
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
cmoehle
Member Avatar
Chris - San Antonio TX
If all we're doing is lumping, they're quite useless; but if defined, they are useful labels for what we mean.
Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order.
--Barry Goldwater
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MrsS
Member Avatar
Hessia/Germany
:P


Anneliese
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
« Previous Topic · Soapbox · Next Topic »
Add Reply