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| Bush’s Faux Ownership Society. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 16 2005, 01:18 PM (193 Views) | |
| BuddyIAm | Feb 16 2005, 01:18 PM Post #1 |
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Bush’s faux ownership Society. If you rent a car. You have the right to move that car around. If you stay within the limits of the Rental company. Ownership is more than the right to temporarily Affect the future of a asset. It is the ability to sell, it is the ability to immediately place a value on a object and use that object as collateral.. Neither of which are available in Bush’s forced savings plan.. Ownership infers a positive value.. Which also suggests that there is a value that can be used for collateral.. No Bank will offer you consideration in exchange for your forced savings plan. Indeed consideration of this fund by lending institutions. WOULD BE ILLEGAL.. Bush’s Forced savings plan. CAN RESULT IN A 100% loss.... That is the only guaranty.. To accept Bush’s forced savings plan as a spoke in the wheel of a ownership society. Would first require a redefining of the word OWNERSHIP.... |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| cmoehle | Feb 16 2005, 01:26 PM Post #2 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Let's redefine. I see it as taking responsibility, self-respnsibility for your actions and choices instead of always depending on and blaming others. Like what I posted last night about taking care of your health preventatively. That's taking ownership to me. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| BuddyIAm | Feb 16 2005, 01:43 PM Post #3 |
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CHRIS SAYS: always depending on and blaming others. Buddy says: Explain to me how investment in securities. Is not depending on the actions of others.. In fact Chris. Without the input and action of others. Securities have absolutely NO VALUE.. They are just paper with numbers assigned to them. The truth about Capitalism and the investment in securities.. IS THAT THEY ARE TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON THE INPUT AND ACTIONS OF OTHERS. They would not exist without society. Any action by Capitalism to diminish Society and societal ideals. Diminishes Capitalism.. |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| cmoehle | Feb 16 2005, 02:04 PM Post #4 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Different kind of dependency and you know it. Me investing my money is different than me sitting on the couch taking handouts. Me investing my money as I choose is different than the government taking it and doing as it decides, like borrowing it to build even bigger government. We've had this discussion before. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| BuddyIAm | Feb 16 2005, 02:26 PM Post #5 |
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Chris No, I don’t know it.. I know differently.. Increasing your ante on a equity. Because you know tomorrow, someone will reach the age where they MUST ENTER. Bush’s ‘Forced saving plan’. AND BY DEFAULT.. They must increase the ante for the faux value already applied to the equity.. Is sitting on the couch investing in a pyramid scheme.. ALL PYRAMID SCHEME ARE DOOMED TO FAILURE. It is irresponsible for societies Governor. To legitimize Pyramid Schemes. From a Bully Pulpit.. |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| jackd | Feb 16 2005, 03:15 PM Post #6 |
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If I am not mistaken, full ownership of an individual retirement funds has always existed in the U.S. From what I read, individual ownership has not given the intended results as many people fall onto SS as their sole income revenue , particularly when they getting close to or at retirement age. If the U.S. govern. ever goes with the 'forced investment' scenario, it would change very little for those investing on a regular basis and would hopefully get a better return on their investment as these would be handled by professional investors instead or the hit-and-miss part time pseudo experts (theoretically). For those who have an interest at looking at who things are done in our neck of the wood, we have had a "forced retirement plan" in effect since 1965 which is run by a separate government agency. Over the years, this scheme has become Canada's biggest pool of investment capital and has generated a net return (after enpenses) of 12.2% in 2004.
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Walk in front of me, you lead me, Walk behind me, I lead you Walk beside me, you are a friend. | |
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| Banandangees | Feb 16 2005, 03:33 PM Post #7 |
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Buddy says, .... "It is the ability to sell, it is the ability to immediately place a value on a object and use that object as collateral.. Neither of which are available in Bush’s forced savings plan.." But how does the present "pay as you go" system differ from what you say above if you want to sell or put a value on your tax contributions to the SS program of today? --------
I think the difference would come from the "funding" of the $ benefit you recieve when retired as you suggest in the "private account" program; and, has to do with the "contribution" to the "total national savings" concept that Greenspan mentioned in his talk today. |
| Banan | |
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| wolfe59 | Feb 16 2005, 03:44 PM Post #8 |
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Let me invest my money in a mutual fund, same amt. during good economic times as well as bad. When I retire at age 65, I will have well over a million dollars in my little nest egg. Mutual funds provide a much higher rate than putting the money in a mattress (basically what the gov't does now). |
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| BuddyIAm | Feb 16 2005, 04:10 PM Post #9 |
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Although I would not agree with a position that opposed both privatization and SS. I could honor that position.. But to honor privatization. And deny the benefits in the past and future provided by SS. To honor privatization over SS.. Is hypocritical.. |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| cmoehle | Feb 16 2005, 04:15 PM Post #10 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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We should have that choice. Hell, it was created as an option. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| BuddyIAm | Feb 16 2005, 04:23 PM Post #11 |
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401K'S AND IRA'S ARE ALREADY A OPTION........................... |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| wolfe59 | Feb 16 2005, 04:52 PM Post #12 |
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Yes and I already contribute to each of them, so hopefully in a couple of years I will have another avenue called Privatized SS to put additional money into!!
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| BuddyIAm | Feb 16 2005, 06:01 PM Post #13 |
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I would welcome privatized SS, as a addition to, the current SS plan.. |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| wolfe59 | Feb 16 2005, 06:52 PM Post #14 |
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I'll bet you are one of those that has every car they have ever own sitting under a oak tree in your backyard. Its doesn't matter that they are broke, its yours and you are going to keep them. You won't trade them in an get something nice and new even tho you could use them all as trade and not have to pay a dime more. |
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| jrf | Feb 16 2005, 06:56 PM Post #15 |
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If like the TSP one had a choice to put money into an S&P500 index fund and a Wilshire4500 index fund one, then one could be invested pretty much in the entire US stock market. Even if one invested 100% of the savings into those two funds it would be impossible to lose 100% of the investment due to legal activity. To lose 100% then both funds would have to zero out. That would mean that every US public company would have to go belly up. |
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8:22 AM Jul 11