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| Greenspan Says SS Is Not The Big Problem.. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 16 2005, 11:50 AM (674 Views) | |
| BuddyIAm | Feb 18 2005, 04:46 PM Post #61 |
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Wolf says: 5. "Saving" Social Security without individual accounts could require a 50% increase in Social Security taxes or a 27% cut in benefits. Buddy says: What a horrible play on words.. This statement makes it sound as if privatization would help save SS. In fact privatization would add a cost of up to 3 trillion dollars or more above and beyond what it would cost to fully fund SS.. AND SS HAS TO BE FUNDED.. IT IS BACKED BY THE FULL FAITH AND CREDIT OF THE USA.. The cost of Fully funding SS. Is less than just starting the Privatized plan. That's what Greenspan says; This statement #5. Makes the whole list suspect. |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| wolfe59 | Feb 18 2005, 06:06 PM Post #62 |
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Buddy I should have given credit where credit was due, the information was not from me but from the Cato Institute. I had found the information while helping my son with a paper on SS. |
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| BuddyIAm | Feb 18 2005, 06:45 PM Post #63 |
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I didn’t mean to lay blame on you, for CATO’s liberal interpretations of truth....
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| wolfe59 | Feb 18 2005, 07:00 PM Post #64 |
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2. The average worker can expect a rate-of-return of less than 2% on his or her Social Security taxes. Source: Actuarial Note 144, Social Security Administration Office of the Chief Actuary, Table 4 Why would you want to keep something that only has a 2% rate-of-return. Would you keep your money invested if it only had a 2% rate-of-return? My kids make more in their local savings acct. at the bank. The whole system is a waste, GIVE ME FREEDOM TO PUT MY MONEY WHERE IT WILL ACTUALLY EARN A DECENT RATE OF RETURN. I guess if we leave it alone I could alway purchase that nice refrigerator box and live on the corner. |
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| cmoehle | Feb 18 2005, 07:03 PM Post #65 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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The exact reference is Quick Facts. Gary, The Cato Institute is basically libertarian, what people nowadays call conservative, derived from Ayn Rand's Objectivism, and thereby Classical Liberalism, not today's liberalism espoused by Reps and Dems alike. Remember Joel posted their The 6.2 Percent Solution: A Plan for Reforming Social Security. A sound plan as we discussed then. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| BuddyIAm | Feb 18 2005, 08:29 PM Post #66 |
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Wolf says: Why would you want to keep something that only has a 2% rate-of-return. Buddy says: Because is the corner stone of your retirement. It is guaranteed.. It’s like putting more concrete in the footing of the building, than in the building itself.. SECURITY SOCIAL SECURITY What do you expect for Your rate of return for a, ‘regulated forced savings plan‘.. (Bush’s plan) Minus annuity fees Minus brokerage fees Minus life insurance fees, for survivors benefits, for your dependants minus fees for disability insurance minus inflation Minus losses in the normal course of business. Such as bankruptcy of firms.. minus some sort of risk guarantee.. Such as theft, embezzlement and fraud.. Greenspan describes This forced savings plan as having no net gain in national savings.. It only transfer money from one system of accounting to another.. |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| BuddyIAm | Feb 18 2005, 08:31 PM Post #67 |
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Chris: CATO has become a propaganda machine.. Well it always was.. I just was misinformed. And gave them undue respect.. |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| jrf | Feb 18 2005, 08:43 PM Post #68 |
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Just because the info was found at Cato doesn't mean Cato was much involved. Look at the sources on the list again. SS, SS, SS, etc. Only one reference to Cato, and that was about a document produced by SS. Check all those sources. Most items on the list were statements of fact. They were not interpretations they were things that get interpreted. Other items were conclusions reached by interpretation of fact or conclusions stated in studies (yes some having projections) by SS. I found much the same as what was in the list and had never even heard of CATO, or at least had never thought of them or remembered them. |
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| BuddyIAm | Feb 18 2005, 08:46 PM Post #69 |
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CATO selected the items presented and truncated comments to fit their needs.. |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| jrf | Feb 18 2005, 08:54 PM Post #70 |
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If the retirement age is pushed up, then one stands more of a chance of not even getting the 2%. If the benefit is cut, then one stands more of a chance of not getting the 2%. And same if the SS tax is increased. I don't see any guarantees other than a promise that if I live long enough I will get something. How long, how much, and how much I have to contribute is always in the air. SS does not have the necessary characteristics of a cornerstone. |
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| BuddyIAm | Feb 18 2005, 09:07 PM Post #71 |
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Per Greenspan The full faith and Credit of the USA |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| pulsar | Feb 19 2005, 06:49 AM Post #72 |
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And you don't? Sorry. That was too tempting. Tom |
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| DanHouck | Feb 19 2005, 07:01 AM Post #73 |
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Land of Enchantment NM
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Where/why is it cast in stone that the current system only has a two percent return? Everyone is missing the point about what is really broke--it is not the rate of return, it is the fact that THERE IS NO REAL TRUST FUND. Make it impossible for the politicians to use SS to mask the real size of the deficit by putting the money into a REAL trust fund. Then invest in nothing but A+ bonds and you would double the rate of return. All this shucking and jiving by the politicians is because they don't want to let loose of spending everyone's future pension now. Dan |
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| cmoehle | Feb 19 2005, 07:57 AM Post #74 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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That's what I don't get, we've been over and over this to cut through the political crap. No, there is no trust fund, hasn't been for years, all IOUs, government owing the government, all borrowed to build bigger government. No, there is no immediate crisis as one side insists, but there is a problem as the other side denies. No, Bush's plan does not fix SS, but it or some variation on it involving private/personal ownership is needed to fix lower-case social security--so government can no longer touch it. No, it does not need to be implemented all at once but can be done gradually, cautiously. No, our children do not and should not have to pay for the cost of starting it up. Any plan must include this--the Cato 6.2% solution, as I understand it, does. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| Banandangees | Feb 19 2005, 08:20 AM Post #75 |
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Isn't the most simple truth, the demographics reality? Whether through "pay as you go" or "forced savings," aren't the feet of any "guarenteed" retirement program held to the demographic reality fire? Can (and should) every "ABLE" man and woman have a guarenteed retirement? Wasn't the original SS system supposed to be TEMPORARY? Should one ABLE person be guarenteed the same as another ABLE person considering the effortful contribution of each over their pre-retirement age (65) to the "community?" |
| Banan | |
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8:21 AM Jul 11