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| Greenspan Says SS Is Not The Big Problem.. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 16 2005, 11:50 AM (675 Views) | |
| BuddyIAm | Feb 18 2005, 12:45 AM Post #46 |
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HEADLINES MORE HEADLINES · Feb 17, 2005 Look Closer: What Alan Greenspan Really Said Washington, D.C. – The White House propaganda machine is seizing on Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan's remarks to the Senate Banking Committee. They claim he is endorsing President Bush's yet-to-be revealed social security plan, but a closer look at Chairman Greenspan's testimony reveals that his "support" is not as enthusiastic as the White House says it is. BUSH'S PRIVATIZATION WON'T STRENGTHEN SOCIAL SECURITY SEN. SCHUMER: What we're trying to get at here is…whether setting up a private account under current conditions…does anything to alleviate the problem. MR. GREENSPAN: In and of itself, it surely doesn't alleviate the current problem. [Transcript, Federal News Service, 02/16/05] BUSH'S PRIVATIZATION WON'T ENCOURAGE PERSONAL SAVINGS "One problem with private accounts, Mr. Greenspan notes, was that they wouldn't improve the low national savings rate. In the past, the Fed chief has said increasing national savings should be a top priority for any such change. The private-account plan, he said, "merely moves savings from the government account to a private account." [Wall Street Journal, 02/17/05] BUSH BORROWING 2 TRILLION MAKES FOR UNCERTAINTIES "But [Greenspan] had no answer to the first question, from Committee Chairman Richard Shelby, an Alabama Republican: How would financial markets react to adding up to $2 trillion in new borrowing that a proposal such as Mr. Bush's would entail in early years? 'We don't know that," he said. 'And if we were to go forward in a large way and we were wrong, it would be creating more difficulties than I would imagine." [Wall Street Journal, 02/17/05] BUSH'S FISCAL IRRESPONSIBILITY HAS WEAKENED SOCIAL SECURITY SEN. SCHUMER: And furthermore, we'd have a(n) easier time fixing Social Security if our debt went down…because one of the great problems is all the debt we have right now. Isn't that fair to say, too? MR. GREENSPAN: I think that's fair to say. [Transcript, Federal News Service, 02/16/05] |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| cmoehle | Feb 18 2005, 06:02 AM Post #47 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Saying there is no crisis is not saying there is no problem. Your solution, rate adjustments, perpetuates the problem. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| cmoehle | Feb 18 2005, 06:14 AM Post #48 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Eventually I'll get lazy and delete instead of merge. Then you'll do a Dean. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| BuddyIAm | Feb 18 2005, 10:07 AM Post #49 |
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Eventually, It will become obvious to all A rate adjustment is the only solution.. Everyone has to pay their bills |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| cmoehle | Feb 18 2005, 10:23 AM Post #50 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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It may be what Congress decides but it will not solve the problem. SS was not intended to be mandatory. When and why did that change? |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| BuddyIAm | Feb 18 2005, 10:41 AM Post #51 |
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SS was intended to be mandatory.. Except for a select few... But again your stepping out onto he path of hypocrisy.. Bush's privatization will exempt NONE. IT WILL BE MANDATORY FOR ALL... |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| DanHouck | Feb 18 2005, 11:04 AM Post #52 |
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Land of Enchantment NM
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SS is probably one of the knottiest problems this country faces. When it was originated, it was not intended to be a national pension plan, rather it was intended to be a safety net. As unions gained clout in the manufacturing sector and the economy boomed after WWII, most jobs had defined benefit pension plans that relegated SS to a supplemental income for most. However, now we are faced with a situation where very few jobs outside of government carry serious pension benefits. Many jobs will have "employer" contribution to retirement accounts, but unless the worker really puts serious money in, they simply will not accumulate the underlying capital value that is inherent in a defined benefit plan. For example, if you had a defined benefit plan that paid you $20K per year, the underlying asset value would be about $500,000. Not very many people can accumulate that in a 401K. Now here's where I really part company with the President. Given that the lack of pension coverage is rapidly becoming nearly universal, I would convert SS into a true pension and disability insurance plan just as they have in the U.K. As now, the worker and the employer would each contribute. But the money would actually be invested in stocks (index funds) and bonds (both government and private). All the welfare aspects of the current SS would be eliminated--no more giving SS to immigrants who have not paid into the plan, no more SSI to non contributors, etc. Those programs would be moved into general funding and properly labeled as the welfare programs that they are. The current racket of phony disability claims on SS would have to be shut down by using the same monitoring and investigation used by private insurance companies to combat fraud. In fact it might make sense to contract this activity out to these experts in fraud control. Although I would continue to encourage 401Ks and IRAs for those who want to save more, SS would become a real national pension plan with real assets and paying serious pensions. No one would be allowed to opt out of it. Everyone would pay towards it on every dollar they make in earned income. People would be given the option of paying directly into it if they wanted to increase future benefits. That's my radical proposal. I think the Prez is way off base on this one. Trying to deal at the personal level with this sea change in old-age funding caused by the collapse of private pensions is IMO a very bad idea. Continuing the current Ponzi scheme is also a very bad idea. Dan |
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| jackd | Feb 18 2005, 11:18 AM Post #53 |
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Dan:
Congratulations. Looks like you've read the program that was put in place in Quebec some 40 years ago
The only variation to your proposed radical plan is that we don't have the option of paying more directly into the plan. A 401K type of program is available for additional retirement savings. |
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Walk in front of me, you lead me, Walk behind me, I lead you Walk beside me, you are a friend. | |
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| DanHouck | Feb 18 2005, 11:21 AM Post #54 |
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Land of Enchantment NM
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I think the English have a similar plan. You'll be in great shape in Quebec if you don't let the government and the unions keep on driving employers out. All those unemployed folks up there aren't paying towards their retirement. |
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| cmoehle | Feb 18 2005, 01:04 PM Post #55 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Gary, "hypocrisy" means saying one thing and doing another. Or are you inventing meanings to suit your agenda? Brit Hume Lies About Social Security: "So, FDR was proposing three things: a temporary “old-age pension,” for seniors who wouldn’t have time to pay into the Social Security system; a compulsory-contribution annuity--meaning, Social Security as we know it today--which would become a “self-supporting system,” and, third, voluntary individual accounts. Ultimately, the old-age pensions would be supplanted by the self-supporting annuity system (meaning, Social Security.)" Something obviously written by a Democrat. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| BuddyIAm | Feb 18 2005, 01:18 PM Post #56 |
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Chris: I watch Fox. But I don’t believe anything said on it. That’s good advice for you Chris.. The Grandson of Roosevelt. James Roosevelt Jr. Has called for the resignation of Hume. He has said that Hume characterization was totally taken out of context. Bits and peace taken from one item placed with pieces from another in an attempt to create a new meaning to what Roosevelt meant. Still No Word from Fox's Brit Hume On February 9, 2005 I posted: "http://www.newshounds.us/2005/02/09/brit_hume_resign.php". The post explains that on the air (on February 3, 2005), and without a disclaimer or explanation, Brit Hume, Fox News's most senior anchor, "quoted" from a paper President Franklin Delano Roosevelt delivered to Congress in l935. Hume's "quote" was a series of sentences taken from Roosevelt's paper and rearranged to falsely imply that Roosevelt favored private Social Security accounts. Last night, President Roosevelt's grandson, James Roosevelt, Jr., was a guest on Countdown w/Keith Olberman on MSNBC. During the program, Roosevelt said this about Hume: "He rearranged those sentences in an outrageous distortion, one that really calls for a retraction, an apology, maybe even a resignation." Here is a transcript and a video clip of Roosevelt on Olberman's show from the website of "http://mediamatters.org/items/200502160003". We reiterate our support for "http://www.airamericaradio.com/weblogs/alfrankenshow/", and now James Roosevelt, Jr., in their call for "a retraction, an apology, maybe even a resignation." In his capacity as Fox News's most senior newsman, Brit Hume is charged with delivering true and accurate information to the American public. Rearranging sentences written by a former president of the United States in order to falsely imply that he would favor the Bush administration's efforts to "privatize Social Security" is inexcusable. Contact "mailto:comments@foxnews.com" to express your outrage at their hypocrisy. Fox News delights in attacking CBS's Dan Rather or CNN's Eason Jordan for what they say or do. Urge Fox to hold its own employees to the standards it sets for everyone else. http://www.newshounds.us/2005/02/16/still_...s_brit_hume.php Condemning SS for the same actions taken by privatization. Meets my definition of hypocrisy.. Dan says: no more SSI to non contributors, etc. Those programs would be moved into general funding and properly labeled as the welfare programs that they are. Buddy says: Those items are already coming from the general tax fund.. They are labeled welfare. And certain maximum income and assets levels must be met. Those maximums are desperately low. Impossible to live on without support from other programs such as Medicaid, housing assistance and food stamps THEY ALWAYS HAVE.. www.ssa.gov ..I support any pension program that is in addition to SS. The pension plans are guaranteed by the pension guarantee corporation. But SS. Is guaranteed by the ‘FULL FAITH AND CREDIT OF THE USA |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| cmoehle | Feb 18 2005, 02:04 PM Post #57 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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"So, FDR was proposing three things: a temporary “old-age pension,” for seniors who wouldn’t have time to pay into the Social Security system; a compulsory-contribution annuity--meaning, Social Security as we know it today--which would become a “self-supporting system,” and, third, voluntary individual accounts. Ultimately, the old-age pensions would be supplanted by the self-supporting annuity system (meaning, Social Security.)" That's the interp of an Air American Democrat, not Hume. "...voluntary individual accounts." |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| BuddyIAm | Feb 18 2005, 02:46 PM Post #58 |
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ROOSEVELT: I think I can. And it's really quite an amazing distortion. What they did was that they took a very simple statement that my grandfather made, which said that Social Security, when it was enacted almost 70 years ago, ought to first of all have a part that took care of people who didn't have time to build up a Social Security account. And the government should fund that out of general revenues. Secondly, Social Security should have a self-sustaining portion that was funded by contributions from both employers and employees. That's what we know and have known for 70 successful years as Social Security. And thirdly, those who wanted and who needed to, as many -- almost everybody -- did, to have a higher income and retirement, should have accounts where they could pay in voluntarily, in addition to the guaranteed Social Security benefit. |
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"The truth lies in a man's dreams... perhaps in this unhappy world of ours whose madness is better than a foolish sanity." "Facts are stupid things." - Ronald Regan "Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We don't let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas?" --Josef Stalin | |
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| wolfe59 | Feb 18 2005, 04:25 PM Post #59 |
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Social Security is not an insurance program at all. It is simply a payroll tax on one side and a welfare program on the other. Your Social Security benefits are always subject to the whim of 535 politicians in Washington. |
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| wolfe59 | Feb 18 2005, 04:28 PM Post #60 |
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Found this while surfing, thought you might enjoy. Quick Fact Archive 1. Social Security will begin running a deficit by 2018. Source: 2003 Social Security Board of Trustees Report, Table VI.F2, p.168 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. The average worker can expect a rate-of-return of less than 2% on his or her Social Security taxes. Source: Actuarial Note 144, Social Security Administration Office of the Chief Actuary, Table 4 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3. The Social Security payroll tax rate has grown from just 2 percent in 1949 to 12.4 percent today. Source: Social Security Administration -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4. Social Security faces an unfunded liability of more than $26 trillion. Source: 2003 Social Security Board of Trustees Report. For explanation, see "Social Security Deficit Increases by Trillions," Cato Daily Commentary. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5. "Saving" Social Security without individual accounts could require a 50% increase in Social Security taxes or a 27% cut in benefits. Source: 2003 Social Security Board of Trustees Report -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6. The Supreme Court ruled in Flemming v. Nestor that there is no legal right to Social Security benefits. Source: Flemming V. Nestor, 363 U.S. 603, 610–11 (1960) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7. Social Security taxes have been raised more than 40 times since the program began. Source: See legislation affecting Social Security and Medicare programs available on the Social Security Administration website. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8. The maximum original Social Security tax was just $60. Today it is $11,000. Source: Social Security Administration -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9. In 1950, there were 16 workers paying Social Security taxes for every retired person receiving benefits. Today there are 3.3. By 2030, there will be only 2. Source: 2003 Social Security Board of Trustees Report, Table IV.B2, p. 51 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10. 46 million Americans receive Social Security benefits, including 32 million retirees, 7 million survivors, and 7 million disabled workers. Source: 2003 Social Security Board of Trustees Report, p. 2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11. Social Security pays more than $450 billion in benefits each year. If nothing is done, by 2060, the combination of Social Security and Medicare will account for more than 71 percent of the federal budget. Source: Statement of Thomas R. Saving (PDF), Public Trustee of the Social Security Board of Trustees before the Senate Special Committee on Aging, July 29, 2003. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12. 18-to-34 year olds are more likely to believe in the existence of UFOs than in the future existence of Social Security. Source: “Social Security: The Credibility Gap,” Third Millennium survey, conducted Sept. 1994. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13. According to Gallup, reforming Social Security is a top priority for 33% of investors. Source: The Gallup Organization, “Investor Optimism Increases for the Fourth Consecutive Month,” report released January 28, 2004. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14. Nearly 80% of Americans pay more in Social Security taxes than they do in federal income tax. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15. Every two-year election cycle that we wait to reform Social Security costs an additional $320 billion. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16. The full retirement age today is 65 years and four months. It rises by two months every year, gradually increasing to age 67 for people born after 1959. Source: Social Security Administration -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17. By 2030, there will be 70 million Americans of retirement age--twice as many as today. Source: Social Security Administration -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18. The average monthly retirement benefit in 2003 was $879.70. Source: Social Security Administration |
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