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| Intelligent Design | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 14 2005, 05:46 AM (360 Views) | |
| cmoehle | Feb 14 2005, 05:46 AM Post #1 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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I would like to engage in a a discussion on ID (Intelligent Design), what it is, what it isn't. In the last weeks much has been said about it that needs clarification in order to intelligently discuss it and make decisions regarding it. I would like to avoid discussion of the two supposedly opposing views, creationism and evolution, except where distinguishing ID from them is necessary--if possible. I would like to wager that will be impossible, but will persue it anyhow. I would like to start with a recent piece by Michael J. Behe, a professor of biological sciences at Lehigh University and a senior fellow with the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture, author of "Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution." Design for Living? (For the sake of brevity I have elided some material which you may read at the end of the link.)
To me the key concept here is "the contemporary argument for intelligent design is based on physical evidence and a straightforward application of logic" which is not based on physical evidence. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| cruiser | Feb 14 2005, 07:11 AM Post #2 |
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I do not believe that the proponents of ID give enough credence to space/time. They want to get from point A to point B with a very short time frame and a misconception on how many trillions of systems there are in the cosmos. This is somewhat analogous to having ten thousand monkeys sitting at keyboards and randomly pounding away for millions of years and finally one of them comes up with the lords prayer. I happen to believe in the monkey theorem. |
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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. Blaise Pascal (1623 - 1662) | |
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| irongoat | Feb 14 2005, 07:17 AM Post #3 |
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I have been restoring my 1957 MGA Roadster and have derived a theory of how it came into being. At first I thought it was created by intelligent design but now as I have arrived into an enlightened period I can now see that it was a result of evolution. Here is how I theorize how it evolved. First it was a single bolt, then from the simple bolt sprang a washer and nut. After a few million years it slowley developed pistons, wheels and even a radio untill it was a sedan. After another few million years that bloated sedan evolved into the thing of beauty, a roadster. I'm sure there are many archaic skeptics out there who in there little backward mind who will simply not accept this theory. We will deal with them by acting like they aren't as smart as us or just havn't advanced as far as the rest of us. I'm calling on the ACLU to get on board in this as some garages may attempt to put Intelligent Design stickers in the shop manuals creating the illusion that there are other theories as to how my 1957 MGA Roadster came into being. |
| "In matters of style, swim with the current, In matters of principal, stand like a rock". Thomas jefferson | |
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| cruiser | Feb 14 2005, 07:25 AM Post #4 |
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IG you are absolutely correct on evolution, and as evolution went on I now own a mercedes with a small engine that puts out over three 350 HP and rides like a cadillac. |
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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. Blaise Pascal (1623 - 1662) | |
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| irongoat | Feb 14 2005, 07:32 AM Post #5 |
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cruiser, It appears we are in an advancing evolutionary period. My '57 MGA rides rough, accelerates slowley and is a wonderful nuisance. |
| "In matters of style, swim with the current, In matters of principal, stand like a rock". Thomas jefferson | |
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| cruiser | Feb 14 2005, 07:44 AM Post #6 |
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IG, you have a great sense of humor and I imagine a car buff like myself. |
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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. Blaise Pascal (1623 - 1662) | |
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| cmoehle | Feb 14 2005, 11:57 AM Post #7 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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So you would cut off your nose to spite your face? Is one of the originators of ID not a good source to learn about ID? |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| wolfe59 | Feb 14 2005, 12:24 PM Post #8 |
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Well mine is still in the early stages and I wish time would hurry up and go by, this bolt is really rough on the ole rear-end. How many years do I have to go before the spring shows up? |
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| cruiser | Feb 14 2005, 12:36 PM Post #9 |
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I can not distinguish ID from creationism. They both have some sort of creator. |
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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. Blaise Pascal (1623 - 1662) | |
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| brewster | Feb 14 2005, 12:41 PM Post #10 |
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Winemaker Extraordinaire
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Oh, come now, Cruiser - you can't tell them apart???
There's far more letters in creationism....
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My Favourite CampsiteBow Valley Provincial Park, Kananaskis Country, Alberta | |
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| cmoehle | Feb 14 2005, 12:41 PM Post #11 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Behe would say "And intelligent design itself says nothing about the religious concept of a creator." And while a creationist denies evolution, Behe says "Intelligent design proponents....do not doubt that evolution occurred." So creationism and ID share some similarities and ID and evolutionary theory share some similarities but creationism and evolutionary theory share nothing in common. Does that help define ID? |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| cruiser | Feb 14 2005, 02:37 PM Post #12 |
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Where does ID come from if not from god or an all powerfull something? Some sort of intelligence has to be there just by definition "intelligent". |
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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. Blaise Pascal (1623 - 1662) | |
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| DanHouck | Feb 14 2005, 05:04 PM Post #13 |
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Land of Enchantment NM
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Intelligent design strikes me as the kind of theory that someone who can't handle that there might be a Creator but who also knows there's serious holes in evolution, comes up with to CYA.
Besides which, any diligent observer of humanity might be prone to question the "intelligent" part. :lol: Dan |
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| cmoehle | Feb 14 2005, 05:06 PM Post #14 |
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Chris - San Antonio TX
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Alan, it is my impression that just as evolitionary theory does not really try to answer philosopical questions about beiginnings, though some implication is inevitable, so too ID does not try to answer religious questions about the I in ID, though certainly some implication is inevitable. But let's not rush to conclusions. I'd really like to just spend time exploring what "idears" IDers have. |
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Politics is the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for individuals that is consistent with the maintenance of social order. --Barry Goldwater | |
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| TexasShadow | Feb 14 2005, 06:36 PM Post #15 |
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Jane
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re Intelligent Design..... when I use the term, I'm usually referring to the terrarium in which we live...an enclosed, self sustaining organism. I'm talking about the ecosystem. I'm talking about the life, death, rebirth cycle of LIFE(existence) on earth and throughout the cosmos. I'm talking about the "glue" that hold atoms and molecules together and the mechanism that makes cells reproduce. I don't think the catalyst of reproduction is just a random accident....that first amoeba didn't just start reproducing one day. There is a strong suggestion (to me) of a purposeful force behind that action. As to WHY and WHO....that is a question for philosophers/religious folks. |
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